Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A fair assessment. We have a read on Tor Lithanel's culture, and we've spent a few social actions talking with elves, but we don't really know them, and that could really make all the difference here.
The real issue is whether we have enough actions for that. Someone brought up that Eike might need to choose a Master sometime soon and that if we want to get on that we should probably take Apprentice-teaching lessons early so that doesn't surprise us. Between that and wanting to advance whatever investigations the Framework unlocks, we'll really have to see whether we have the time to poke around, and on who.
[X] Plan : Give me your specialists future Mathilde will worry about it
-[X] [SCOPE] The Old World (+4)
-[X] [REP] Enchanter (-2)
-[X] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)
I've been thinking about it and fuck it. I'm making an ALL IN plan since there isn't any yet.
Thing is both the Enchanter AND the Magical Theorist would be useful this very turn for the foundations and later. I'd think we can probably justify the Waystones being shrines to Hekarti since you know... they're waystones and very useful. And I'd think that Mathilde has the necessary weight in Karaz Ankor to make it possible even there. Some would grumble mightily, but you know... it would also mean the waystones, wonders from their golden age have been brought back due to a joint effort between dwarves and Eonir.
Is it worth it to get the House's full support in exchange for future considerations? I'd say yes, after all, the more they have to gain, the more invested they will be in the success of the endeavour. Same thing if we take BOTH their TOP enchanter and magical theorist, it just makes them into a position where they might want to put considerable ressources to assist us.
If we intend to be partners, let's get the maximum out of them. Sure it might cause us problems in the future, but that's a problem for future Mathilde (a future Mathilde that has the clout from just recreating fricking Waystones)
P.S. : My plan's total is +1. I just feel like adding more than two characters from the House would be a bit much.
-[X] [SCOPE] The Old World (+4)
-[X] [REP] Enchanter (-2)
-[X] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)
I've been thinking about it and fuck it. I'm making an ALL IN plan since there isn't any yet.
Thing is both the Enchanter AND the Magical Theorist would be useful this very turn for the foundations and later. I'd think we can probably justify the Waystones being shrines to Hekarti since you know... they're waystones and very useful. And I'd think that Mathilde has the necessary weight in Karaz Ankor to make it possible even there. Some would grumble mightily, but you know... it would also mean the waystones, wonders from their golden age have been brought back due to a joint effort between dwarves and Eonir.
Is it worth it to get the House's full support in exchange for future considerations? I'd say yes, after all, the more they have to gain, the more invested they will be in the success of the endeavour. Same thing if we take BOTH their TOP enchanter and magical theorist, it just makes them into a position where they might want to put considerable ressources to assist us.
If we intend to be partners, let's get the maximum out of them. Sure it might cause us problems in the future, but that's a problem for future Mathilde (a future Mathilde that has the clout from just recreating fricking Waystones)
P.S. : My plan's total is +1. I just feel like adding more than two characters from the House would be a bit much.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Alright, I'm relatively happy with the leading votes. The only thing I didn't want was Waystone Shrines, and getting the Magical Theorist while only making promises within an area where we have a decent amount of pull seems to be fine. If we get to that point in the project, we will have plenty of political weight to defend this, for whoever is not already satisfied by BUILDING ADDITIONAL WAYSTONES.
Also, because I am not very up-to-date on thread plans, is there anyone else on our shopping list? At this point, we have a stacked lineup beyond what I'd anticipated, and when it comes to our core team of researchers, the only people I'd actually want to add are different magical disciplines or a White Tower elf.
[x] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
- [x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
- [x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
Also, because I am not very up-to-date on thread plans, is there anyone else on our shopping list? At this point, we have a stacked lineup beyond what I'd anticipated, and when it comes to our core team of researchers, the only people I'd actually want to add are different magical disciplines or a White Tower elf.
[x] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
- [x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
- [x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
Changed my vote towards getting the elf house on. I liked the point someone made about how they are one of the few magic focused houses who voted to get humans involved. If we ever make the crazy progress we wanted to do and can make waystones. We can hit the other magic houses with this when they get mad about it.
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- Location
- United States
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
- Location
- Earth
There's the Damsels, but that requires us dealing with Carcassonne's Iron Orc problem and/or making headway on the Waystone Project, and potentially helping them ascertain Athel Loren-Laurelorn relations (to check if making deals with the Eonir won't piss off their Asrai neighbors), with more being contributed the more of these we help with.
There's also the Ambers, who have a map of the Waystones in the Empire, but it's still a question of if they have any additonal knowledge that's worth enough to offset the damage done by an Amber sitting at the project table instead of whacking gribblies in the wilderness. Speaking of wilderness groups, we're also considering the Cult of Taal and Rhya, since a lot of their holy sites sit on Waystones, and they might bring in a divine magic perspective (no, the "Priest of Halétha" may have other valuable lore, but doesn't really count for these purposes)
And the Asur are just an absolute no-no. They have a tendency to get touchy about anyone screwing with Waystones, and we really don't want them finding out the Project exists at all until we make undeniable progress, or else we're in serious danger of our work getting shut down. Maybe like Turn 45 or something, but definitely not now. This also means we have to be careful about Marienburg as well, since if they get particularly worked up they could sound the alarm on our project.
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I'm a bit worried about not getting either the heir or the head. One of the big reasons I wanted Tindomiel is for political support on the council, and while their magical theory is nice and all fumbling the politics could kill our project in its infancy. I don't think the winning plan is a disaster or anything, but I think people should seriously consider Just The Heir. I'm also proposing another that you vote for another existing plan that gets us the heir:
[X] Plan Middle Ground
-[X] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[x] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Discreet (-1)
This plan gets us the heir, which would be really useful for understanding the politics of the Great Houses. It could also turn Tindomiel's cost partially into a political win, as it means that the Empire has one more reason not to wage war with the Eonir, since the Eonir are now the ones constructing the Empire's new Waystones. Sure, they are dedicating it to some obscure God, but it's an accepted God of the Old Pantheon so who cares? There's going to be some pushback from some Cults, and Nordland at least is going to throw a hissy fit, but with Discreet instead of Dedication this one is going to go a lot easier down the Empire's throat than the current leading plan.
(also voting for my previous picks)
[X] [HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
[X] Plan Middle Ground
-[X] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[x] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Discreet (-1)
This plan gets us the heir, which would be really useful for understanding the politics of the Great Houses. It could also turn Tindomiel's cost partially into a political win, as it means that the Empire has one more reason not to wage war with the Eonir, since the Eonir are now the ones constructing the Empire's new Waystones. Sure, they are dedicating it to some obscure God, but it's an accepted God of the Old Pantheon so who cares? There's going to be some pushback from some Cults, and Nordland at least is going to throw a hissy fit, but with Discreet instead of Dedication this one is going to go a lot easier down the Empire's throat than the current leading plan.
(also voting for my previous picks)
[X] [HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
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dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[X][HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan I will pay you by letting you do more work for us
[X] Plan If We Win We've Already Won: Influence/Investigation
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
[x] Plan Middle Ground
[X] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
[X] Plan Politicoreligious Aid on Credit
[X][HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan I will pay you by letting you do more work for us
[X] Plan If We Win We've Already Won: Influence/Investigation
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
[x] Plan Middle Ground
[X] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
[X] Plan Politicoreligious Aid on Credit
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- Location
- Oklahoma
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
Honestly would be willing to go all in here, but this works.
A bunch of expertise that we only have to pay for if we succeed beyond our wildest dreams? Yes please.
Honestly would be willing to go all in here, but this works.
A bunch of expertise that we only have to pay for if we succeed beyond our wildest dreams? Yes please.
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[X][HOUSE] Yes
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
[X] Plan I will pay you by letting you do more work for us
-[X] [SCOPE] The Old World (+4)
-[X] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[X] [REP] Priest (-1)
-[X] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Dedication (0)
People need to understand: if (and this is an if) we reach the point of making whole new Waystones, one of the biggest potential roadblocks is a distinct shortage of qualified magical artisans for this kind of work. Especially relative to the kind of scale we'd like to produce them on. Yes, a number of places in the Old World do have their own magical traditions that could theoretically do this kind of work - but generally, a very large proportion of those traditions are actively committed to security and/or political roles from which they could not be easily or safely disentangled.
What House Tindomiel is asking for as payment is something that we'd otherwise be trying to buy from somebody, quite possibly even from them. And no, this agreement does not mean that they can bottleneck construction. The QM has explicitly confirmed that the purpose and function of the right of first refusal clause is that if House Tindomiel cannot or will not provide magical artisans when the rest of the construction team is ready for them, we retain full legal rights to just go ahead and hire somebody else. So why not go ham here?
Also, I definitely really want to get a priestess of Hekarti in here. The Waystone Project is distinctly long on secular contributors relative to divine contributors. And an Elven goddess of magic/spells is practically the platonic ideal of an ideal divine contributor. I mean, Hekarti was around and getting prayed to by the original creators of the first Waystones. If anyone would have direct first-hand knowledge of exactly how the Waystones were created, it's Hekarti. Obviously, a priestess isn't going to know everything the goddess herself knows, but it gives an excellent and convenient vector for the goddess to put a thumb on the scales in our favor if we start looking like we're getting somewhere. And hey - if succeeding means a whole shit-ton of new dedications get put up to her all over the Old World by a House that claims her as their patroness, that gives her a very direct personal vested interest in seeing us succeed.
Bribe. The. Goddess. Gods love bribery. And she definitely has the ability to make it worth our while.
[X][HOUSE] Yes
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
[X] Plan I will pay you by letting you do more work for us
-[X] [SCOPE] The Old World (+4)
-[X] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[X] [REP] Priest (-1)
-[X] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Dedication (0)
People need to understand: if (and this is an if) we reach the point of making whole new Waystones, one of the biggest potential roadblocks is a distinct shortage of qualified magical artisans for this kind of work. Especially relative to the kind of scale we'd like to produce them on. Yes, a number of places in the Old World do have their own magical traditions that could theoretically do this kind of work - but generally, a very large proportion of those traditions are actively committed to security and/or political roles from which they could not be easily or safely disentangled.
What House Tindomiel is asking for as payment is something that we'd otherwise be trying to buy from somebody, quite possibly even from them. And no, this agreement does not mean that they can bottleneck construction. The QM has explicitly confirmed that the purpose and function of the right of first refusal clause is that if House Tindomiel cannot or will not provide magical artisans when the rest of the construction team is ready for them, we retain full legal rights to just go ahead and hire somebody else. So why not go ham here?
Also, I definitely really want to get a priestess of Hekarti in here. The Waystone Project is distinctly long on secular contributors relative to divine contributors. And an Elven goddess of magic/spells is practically the platonic ideal of an ideal divine contributor. I mean, Hekarti was around and getting prayed to by the original creators of the first Waystones. If anyone would have direct first-hand knowledge of exactly how the Waystones were created, it's Hekarti. Obviously, a priestess isn't going to know everything the goddess herself knows, but it gives an excellent and convenient vector for the goddess to put a thumb on the scales in our favor if we start looking like we're getting somewhere. And hey - if succeeding means a whole shit-ton of new dedications get put up to her all over the Old World by a House that claims her as their patroness, that gives her a very direct personal vested interest in seeing us succeed.
Bribe. The. Goddess. Gods love bribery. And she definitely has the ability to make it worth our while.
@Boney a bit of an odd question, but it says in the update that one of the villages in Norland was given to the Shayllans. How does that work with them being a feudal overlord and thus needing to protect the land and at the same time being religious pacifists expect in self defense? I can think of some ways you may be able to sort of edge around that, but all of them kind of go against the spirit of that vow.
- Location
- Earth
I imagine in the same way that Shallyans elsewhere get by, that is, hire some big burly sorts to "lend a hand" and "help carry things".
But they would still be making the call. say a bandit gang showed up and started terrorizing the land, someone is going to have to make the call of 'go into the woods and kill them' and it cannot IMO be the big burly fellows because if it's them then they have made the political decision with regards to how to protect the village
- Location
- Earth
Assuming these are typical Shallyans, they'd probably tell the hired muscle to guard the village and fend off any bandit attacks. Of course, nobody is perfect and the bandits will still succeed every now and then through sheer weight of dice statistics, and remain free to try again and again because nobody is taking the fight to them. Then again, being proactive about eliminating threats rather than just helping those hurt in the aftermath has never been the strong suit of Shallyans.
[x] Plan Middle Ground
[X] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
[x] Plan All in, but discreet
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
It seems fine to let Tindomiel make them, but I don't really want them having them to be obvious shrines to an elven god. If they were secular or discreet (an accepted empire god is fine since dedicating infrastructure to a god seems pretty common) would be best I think.
For this reason I'm not voting for the current top plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
This is because that plan has them dedicating the shrines to an elven god. Even it it's done subtly, people will over time eventually be able to recognize them as information spreads.
[X] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
[x] Plan All in, but discreet
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
It seems fine to let Tindomiel make them, but I don't really want them having them to be obvious shrines to an elven god. If they were secular or discreet (an accepted empire god is fine since dedicating infrastructure to a god seems pretty common) would be best I think.
For this reason I'm not voting for the current top plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
This is because that plan has them dedicating the shrines to an elven god. Even it it's done subtly, people will over time eventually be able to recognize them as information spreads.
Ok and what do you expect to happen when that happens? I mean we are talking about Waystones yes? Most of the ones that already exist are called elf stones, not like people know what those have in them. The point of how many people can read elf is that the ones who can read elf re the elites who would prefer not to be drowned in Chaos
Personally I don't think the actual deal of (how many people can actually read elf) is bad taken alone, but I don't think it's actually as good for our needs as just picking up the heir. I think the additional marginal utility the theorist adds is pretty small considering the amount of contributors we've got already. Since the heir should be bringing in any bespoke lore anyway, meaning it would be purely the Theorists skills we'd be getting. Picking someone with political access and a desire to prove themselves seems like the better buy.
Consider that Mathilde basically needs to do all the work approaching these groups due to this:
The heir would give us an in to the system we're currently locked out of and make things quite a bit smoother in the future.
Consider that Mathilde basically needs to do all the work approaching these groups due to this:
The heir would give us an in to the system we're currently locked out of and make things quite a bit smoother in the future.
Can't imagine Grant Theogonist happy about Hecarti-dedicated waystones. Especially if he learns that dedication part is just a business agreement, and is not necessary.
[x] [HOUSE] Yes
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
- [x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
- [x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
[x] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
- [x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
- [x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
[x] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[X][HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
-[X] [SCOPE] Laurelorn (0)
-[x] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)
I've been swayed by arguments that it's okay for Tindomiel to expand their reach, but I'm not super happy that the current vote leader doesn't recruit the Heir, so have an approval vote for "Plan If We Win":
[X] Plan If We Win We've Already Won: Influence/Investigation
-[X] [SCOPE] Empire, Bretonnia, and Kislev (+3)
-[x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[x] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
Thoughts: Tindomiel are locked into being forced to build waystones across the human realms, and many waystones already have elven runes on them. Dedications to a specific goddess of magic isn't a bad thing since it is being built by Her followers. But I still want the political support and influence of house Tindomiel, and that means getting the heir on board.
[X][HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
-[X] [SCOPE] Laurelorn (0)
-[x] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)
I've been swayed by arguments that it's okay for Tindomiel to expand their reach, but I'm not super happy that the current vote leader doesn't recruit the Heir, so have an approval vote for "Plan If We Win":
[X] Plan If We Win We've Already Won: Influence/Investigation
-[X] [SCOPE] Empire, Bretonnia, and Kislev (+3)
-[x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[x] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
Thoughts: Tindomiel are locked into being forced to build waystones across the human realms, and many waystones already have elven runes on them. Dedications to a specific goddess of magic isn't a bad thing since it is being built by Her followers. But I still want the political support and influence of house Tindomiel, and that means getting the heir on board.