It's still a dwarf built library in a dwarven karak funded by a dwarf king—it's going to have a high level of security as a basic feature. It just doesn't specialise in security the same way the forbidden vaults of the Grey College or the Witch Hunters do.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I can't remember the exact wording but the option had stuff about how people wouldn't even know there were higher levels of clearance than they had. Something like that would make it a lot easier to avoid the Dawrven cults even knowing we have books they'd want to destroy. And thus avoid any conflict.
E: Found it:
That is the kinda thing we need to avoid conflict, making the cults think we don't have anything objectionable and that they know everything we have.
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There is, of course, another option for security we have not fully explored yet: dragon librarian.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Hasn't Boney said we had nothing to tempt him with, and that being a dragon was enough to give him access to all the books without any work?
- Location
- Earth
The staffing vote is going to be interesting.
Especially if the We are also an option—we've not had much interaction with them in recent turns, but we know they have been buying books to educate themselves recently.
infinityDivided
Prince Of Doom
- Location
- USA
Quick question, why does all the fanart of Mathilde have her belt buckle facing the wrong way? I'd assume that the side with the mountain would be facing outwards, and the side with the runes (which we have little reason for other people to see) would be facing inwards.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think (not really, but let me have a moment of silliness) that we should give our library staff cool hats, and then when casually talking about it with Cython, lament that we considered them but there's no way we could adequately compensate them for the tremendous honor of having a cool dragon librarian.
Then we sadly trail away, sighing, and hope Cython feels the slightest bit of desire to feel included and also have a cool hat.
Artistic license? The most important part of the belt is the runes after all, and even though they are hidden on the inside, it makes sense for artists to want to depict it to make it clear what it is. There's also a reference for what the runes look like in one of the info threadmarks, so it's easier to visualise I guess?
- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Bringing in the Order of the Scroll isn't about security it's about getting the Largest most prestigious Verenan libraries to trade books with us and they don't care about general security but about having people involved sworn to defend all knowledge per WoB.
Plus saying we didn't vote for the security option therefore we should ignore it entirely is pretty terrible logic. The vote wasn't for which thing do we want to be the only thing the library does, it was for what bonus do we want to be maxed. The other bonuses we got smaller versions of and we can increase through our actions. Order is the only thing we shouldn't do anything for because that's what we did vote for and thus maxing it out was the main priority of the libraries initial setup.
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pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
The Library is in dwarven Karak, it will be as secure as it gets without the vote to go full bonkers on it.
I concede the point about the easier path towards Verenan books, but its not as if its the only way to get them.
I honestly really don't feel the need to possibly complicate our lives by whatever shenanigans unaffiliated knight order might get up to when we can literally just not do that and get big enough to trade books with verenans anyway.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
It's a simple pros and cons question.
Pros:
Get in the good books with the most popular Verenan Order and thus get the good books of any libraries affiliated with said Order.
An extra Knight Order that will fight alongside the rest of K8P to protect it.
Human library guards with experience guarding and policing libraries.
Will defend even the Liber Mortis if necessary.
Several of the cons below are less than likely to cause problems any time soon.
Cons:
A whole bunch of knights with their own loyalties.
Said Knights are explicitly there because they don't think that the protection that Belegar and the Dwarves provide is "enough". And Mathilde will be granting them legitimacy.
Said knights are explicitly there because they don't trust the judgement of the Dwarven anti-corruption Orders.
Knights cost upkeep, which Belegar might end up having to pay, even if they alienate Dwarves with their attitude.
Certain books slipping into the Library and then their presence subsequently becoming known might lead to Order on Order violence in or around our Library.
There's books even we/Mathilde will want destroyed. The knights will be upset about it if they find out.
Potential interreligious squabbles we don't know about?
As is, I am ambivalent. If not handled with finesse, posting the Order of the Scroll here might be a minor slap in the face to Belegar. But on the other hand B Ö Ö K.
Pros:
Get in the good books with the most popular Verenan Order and thus get the good books of any libraries affiliated with said Order.
An extra Knight Order that will fight alongside the rest of K8P to protect it.
Human library guards with experience guarding and policing libraries.
Will defend even the Liber Mortis if necessary.
Several of the cons below are less than likely to cause problems any time soon.
Cons:
A whole bunch of knights with their own loyalties.
Said Knights are explicitly there because they don't think that the protection that Belegar and the Dwarves provide is "enough". And Mathilde will be granting them legitimacy.
Said knights are explicitly there because they don't trust the judgement of the Dwarven anti-corruption Orders.
Knights cost upkeep, which Belegar might end up having to pay, even if they alienate Dwarves with their attitude.
Certain books slipping into the Library and then their presence subsequently becoming known might lead to Order on Order violence in or around our Library.
There's books even we/Mathilde will want destroyed. The knights will be upset about it if they find out.
Potential interreligious squabbles we don't know about?
As is, I am ambivalent. If not handled with finesse, posting the Order of the Scroll here might be a minor slap in the face to Belegar. But on the other hand B Ö Ö K.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
We can get the book through other means.
The idea of the We not being part of the library is physically painful to me. They're just too perfect. They're cute, and they can climb shelfs really well, and they're natural hunters, and they consider losing a book akin to death. They're the perfect librarians.
Installing a chapter of the Knights of the Scroll will guarantee support from the Lorekeepers—but it's not the only price we can pay for their support. There's bound to be other things we can promise in return. The Knights are just an auto-crit, in a way.
They're also significantly less lethal than the average angered librarian.
True, but we can work something out. I'm sure Gotri would be up for building some spider guns, and the new Loremaster is supposed to be a real radical too. The We are smart, they can improve on their weaknesses.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I am in favor of the Knights of the Scroll.
The problem, I think, is that when we aren't given a clean list of OOC books that are corruptive, is determining if one is or not. And keeping the people who feel like any hint of doubt is enough to break out the torches from going nuts.
I'm thinking that for a lot of the corrupted, it's going to be about persuasion and new ideas that pull them deeper into actual cults and potential mutations. I seriously doubt that the books that corrupt physically on touch or on reading are anywhere near the most common variety of corruptive tombs, so it's the stuff in the grey area that is going to be tricky to determine if it is bad enough to be destroyed.
So, they probably are working mostly off of stuff like "dude grew an extra arm, burn everything in his library just to be safe" rather than doing an indepth examination of each book, which would expose their staff to risk.
Which means I think there's a lot more benefit in keeping knights of the Scroll as a counterweight to "better safe than sorry".
The problem, I think, is that when we aren't given a clean list of OOC books that are corruptive, is determining if one is or not. And keeping the people who feel like any hint of doubt is enough to break out the torches from going nuts.
I'm thinking that for a lot of the corrupted, it's going to be about persuasion and new ideas that pull them deeper into actual cults and potential mutations. I seriously doubt that the books that corrupt physically on touch or on reading are anywhere near the most common variety of corruptive tombs, so it's the stuff in the grey area that is going to be tricky to determine if it is bad enough to be destroyed.
So, they probably are working mostly off of stuff like "dude grew an extra arm, burn everything in his library just to be safe" rather than doing an indepth examination of each book, which would expose their staff to risk.
Which means I think there's a lot more benefit in keeping knights of the Scroll as a counterweight to "better safe than sorry".
I'm in favour of the the Knights of the Scroll, not just for the reasons stated, but because of a core issue as well.
The library is about giving knowledge to and working with all races and creeds of order and good.
not taking the Knights of the Scroll because they might get into problems with the Order of the Stone Wall or the Order of Guardians is flinching at the first hurdle.
there were always going to be issues with having a cross people/organisations Library, but we thought it was worth trying anyway.
don't get scared just because an issue we know was there got put into more specific words.
The library is about giving knowledge to and working with all races and creeds of order and good.
not taking the Knights of the Scroll because they might get into problems with the Order of the Stone Wall or the Order of Guardians is flinching at the first hurdle.
there were always going to be issues with having a cross people/organisations Library, but we thought it was worth trying anyway.
don't get scared just because an issue we know was there got put into more specific words.
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I'm a bit hesitant because the knights would frown on us if we decide specific knowledge needs to be destroyed, which is a thing that can pop up. And even if the knights are not there we are still up for allowing every order race access. That wouldn't change with or without them.
The Knights primary purpose is to protect the library and the knowledge it contains. Our purpose, as Head Librarian, is to decide what knowledge should be enshrined in the library. They can't protect something if it was never part of the library at all.
Also, are we going to do the Ranald bounty thing at all? It'll passively acquire random books for us each turn, which could be useful. Sort of like a mini-backfil.
Also, are we going to do the Ranald bounty thing at all? It'll passively acquire random books for us each turn, which could be useful. Sort of like a mini-backfil.
- Location
- Earth
The issue is the whole no-question-asked thing leading to some Ranaldite stealing books from the wrong party and landing us (not always Mathilde in particular, but still a group we care about such as the Empire in general) in a political mess.
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