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To give an idea of how outdated the Gods of Law lore is, the link between Solkan and Witch Hunters is because Witch Hunters needed a patron and Sigmar wasn't invented yet. Any attempt at applying such ancient lore is always going to lead you badly astray, even if you do meet worshippers of a God of Light or Vengeance or whatever in some odd corner of the setting.
Sigmar is surprisingly built into the setting. He turns up from at least 1986, in the core rulebook for 1e pretty much as he is in later versions; the founding warrior-king who gets worshipped as a god. Magnus the Pious is a similarly old character interestingly.

Being both Protector and Warrior would be weird I think, hail mary's are still in the domain of the Gambler, military doctrine is across the line. Actually blanking out, is there a god that holds binary concepts?
Slaanesh is god of both pleasure and pain. Myrmidia has some arguably binary concepts. That's about all I can think of.
 
The God of Ungentlemanly Combat

Edit: I know there's a Word of Boney somewhere deep in the comments stating that the Laws and Customs of the Empire forbid a Ranaldian Knightly Order, but I'd still really like to found one at some point.
This is something I've thought about a bit and I feel like there should be a way to create a knightly order that officially isn't dedicated to Ranald but secretly is (which would obviously appeal to the Deceiver.) The obvious solution is to dedicate it to Ranaldo the Tilean god of protecting people but I feel like there should be some clever way of phrasing it that implies the order is polytheist dedicated to all the gods of the empire equally while phrased in such a way that allows it to favour Ranald over the others.

E.g. something like saying the order is "Dedicated to all the gods of the Grand Conclave, but sworn to favour no official cult over the others." I don't know if that exact wording would actually work (IIRC Ranald send representatives to the conclave when he wants to but isn't an official cult but I can't say for sure) but the basic idea of Dedicated to all "x" but not favouring any "x-Ranald"
 
This is something I've thought about a bit and I feel like there should be a way to create a knightly order that officially isn't dedicated to Ranald but secretly is (which would obviously appeal to the Deceiver.) The obvious solution is to dedicate it to Ranaldo the Tilean god of protecting people but I feel like there should be some clever way of phrasing it that implies the order is polytheist dedicated to all the gods of the empire equally while phrased in such a way that allows it to favour Ranald over the others.

E.g. something like saying the order is "Dedicated to all the gods of the Grand Conclave, but sworn to favour no official cult over the others." I don't know if that exact wording would actually work (IIRC Ranald send representatives to the conclave when he wants to but isn't an official cult but I can't say for sure) but the basic idea of Dedicated to all "x" but not favouring any "x-Ranald"

Well, apparently one of the ways to found a "secular" knightly order is to have a bunch of unaffiliated horse mounted warriors in the same place at the same time.

So maybe the Knights of Providence, founded a group of knights who share no connections except they "fortuitously" happen to be in the right place at the right time at the right battle to turn the tide?

Or you could start off with happenstance, like the Knights of the Golden Lion or the Knights of the Broken Sword, wherein a group of unaffiliated armoured horsemen achieve some notable deed, and found the Knights on the spot based on it - though you'd still have to get the backing of an Elector Count or religious institution at some point.
 
Well if we are going to include Chaos Gods, Tzeench is both the god of Change and Fate.
Those aren't either or concepts. Even ignoring the multitude of stories that exist about changing fate, change applies rather more broadly. Mutations are an obvious example, but so is, for example, a change of heart or the changes when a dynasty collapses.
 
Those aren't either or concepts. Even ignoring the multitude of stories that exist about changing fate, change applies rather more broadly. Mutations are an obvious example, but so is, for example, a change of heart or the changes when a dynasty collapses.

Well, fate is what inevitably happens to you - changing your fate is synonymous with defying your fate. The point about fate is that it can't usually be changed.
 
Slaanesh is god of both pleasure and pain.
Those aren't really opposed. Pleasureably pain is totally a thing, and I'm not even talk about sex. Stretching out when your muscles are all bunched up for example. High intensity sport. Popping a pimple.
Hell, even painful pleasure isn't all that rare. Extremely spicy food, or laughing way too hard.

And yes, that means in another timeline Slaanesh is the god of sports bros who eat spicy hot wings and get into brutal tickling fights with each other.
 
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Those aren't really opposed. Pleasureably pain is totally a thing, and I'm not even talk about sex. Stretching out when your muscles are all bunched up for example. High intensity sport. Popping a pimple.
Hell, even painful pleasure isn't all that rare. Extremely spicy food, or laughing way too hard.

And yes, that means in another timeline Slaanesh is the god of sports bro who eat spicy hot wings and get into brutal tickling fights with each other.
They are though. They're antonyms. There's basically no such thing as something that works as complete "only one of these things can exist at a time". But pleasure and pain are the closest I could think of for the Warhammer gods.

Plus, just beacuse you enjoy soemthing that is painful doesn't mean that pain and pleasure aren't opposite sensations. It just means you enjoy things that aren't good for you.
 
"The situation in Middenland, Castle Drachenfels is stirring, Ostland is being raided, Kislev wants us to help with some sort of snow-ogre. Sylvania can-"
Huh, this takes place in 2580 IC, the same year the wiki says Oswald killed Drachenfels. First mention of Drachenfels in an update. Just an interesting little thing to note, not any hint at what's actually going on. Boney's said not to take any meta knowledge about the castle. In Divided Loyalties, the only thing that's known about the castle is it's a place where gribblies come out of every once in a while.
 
They are though. They're antonyms. There's basically no such thing as something that works as complete "only one of these things can exist at a time". But pleasure and pain are the closest I could think of for the Warhammer gods.

Plus, just beacuse you enjoy soemthing that is painful doesn't mean that pain and pleasure aren't opposite sensations. It just means you enjoy things that aren't good for you.
Going "Yes they are" is not an argument. And while completly either/or concepts are really hard to find, because of the infinite variety of circumstances, there's sure as hell better examples than pain and pleasure. A god of the rich and poor, or a god of war and peace.

On what basis do you assert that they're opposite sensations? They have completly different biological purposes; one is a signal that you're doing something good, and the other is a signal that you've either taking damage or are doing something that could do damage if pushed too far. But something can both be good for you, and be close enough to damaging to ping that sense. And there's plenty of examples of them existing in parallel IRL (see prior post), where it's not something that's not good for you.
Another timeline? You're saying this stuff doesn't already happen in the realm of Slaanesh?
In this timeline, Slaanesh springs from the anxities and hangups about sex in 80s Britain (though the transphobia is alive and well). So whatever happens in Slaanesh's realm is stuff they'd be totally appalled by, and also not at all even a little interested, no really.

Other timeline Slaanesh is probably a pretty cool dude/dudette. A bit much, maybe, but mostly ok. Probably not even a chaos god. They got replaced by... probably a god of tyranny (picking up on the feelings that led to Brexit, and also the economic situation of the not-old generation) or of bad weather (based on climate change)? I dunno, I'm not British, don't know what they're currently worried about. Probably still ambigious gender, because that's a vein of nastiness that's actually gotten worse in recent years.
 
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"One of the remaining Vampires now decorates the Grand Countess' mantlepiece, and the other has fled into the swamp and is being pursued by what seems like half the Battle Wizards in the Empire. Sylvania is once more ruled by Stirland in truth rather than just on paper."

the long siege of the remaining holdouts has concluded with one Vampire killed and its remains under guard and the other currently being pursued through the countryside, and with extremely light casualties sustained by the Army of Stirland.

I'm wondering which vampire got away and which got killed. If Mihnea survived, that's probably good because he's the incompetent one, but I expect Ioana was probably the one with the exit plan.

Either way, being chased into a swamp by a bunch of battle wizards whilst the vampire-drowning Gods of those very same swamps are undergoing a return to relevance probably isn't going to end well for them, so we probably don't have to worry too much about it.
 
The Lorekeepers would value an institution who can guarantee the safety and spread of knowledge entrusted to it, and if you wish to present yourself as positively as possible to such people, a chapter of the Knights of the Scroll to guard your library would be the most effective way of doing so.
@Boney, wanted to ask about this since the more subtle aspects of diplomacy sometimes pass me by. Is this a sideways way of saying that the Lorekeepers want the Cult of Verena involved in the library before they'll cooperate, or is he being literal and truly saying that a chapter of knights is what will assure the Lorekeepers enough of the library's safety to get their cooperation? In the case of the latter, is he aware that our library is built in a Dwarfhold?
 
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@Boney, wanted to ask about this since the more subtle aspects of diplomacy sometimes pass me by. Is this a sideways way of saying that the Lorekeepers want the Cult of Verena involved in the library before they'll cooperate, or is he being literal and truly saying that a chapter of knights is what will assure the Lorekeepers enough of the library's safety to get their cooperation? In the case of the latter, is he aware that our library is built in a Dwarfhold?

The Knights of the Scroll are dedicated to preserving knowledge from all threats, including things like the Order of the Stone Wall or the Order of Guardians.
 
I... don't know if we want to do this to Belegar. There's most likely no situation in which he'd think that either of those orders would wrongfully want to destroy something and that putting armed hurdles in their way would be an even remotely good idea.
 
Generally the preservation (and spreading) of knowledge is an admirable goal, but when it comes to actually corruptive Chaos tomes that will drive insane anyone who actually tries to read the thing and make use of the knowledge, it's probably best to just burn the accursed thing instead of wasting manpower guarding it and still running the risk of some lunatic getting lucky and stealing it sometime down the line.
 
Could we get some dwarfs to guard the library? Maybe use a Boon or a favour?

What about Karak Vlag? They've proven to be pretty resistant to corruption already. Although asking them to spare that many dwarfs might stretch their numbers.
 
From the Wiki:

The Dwarf Order of the Stone Wall is associated with the cult of Grungni, and its members see themselves as the ultimate guardians of the Dwarf race. Founded during the first coming of Chaos (-4500 IC), the order embodies the virtues of steadfastness and determination, regardless of the odds.

And of course the Order of the Guardians are our good friends the Priests of Gazul.

It would be a very unusual situation if either of those Orders wanted to take something from the library to destroy it, but the Knights of the Scroll would be honour bound to stop them.

Then again, we do have the Liber Mortis within the library.

Something something divided loyalties and I am super impressed that on my first draft of this post I misspelled both "divided" and "loyalties". Man my dyspraxia is hitting hard today.
 
Could we get some dwarfs to guard the library? Maybe use a Boon or a favour?
We did. We spend our Belegar boon and now K8P is committed to making and protecting this library.

The order just want's that if they toss something in there that even that umbrella doesn't catch, there'd be someone there loyal to the books, be that instincts borne from more fickle rulers or something else.
 
Do people even known we have it?
Nope, but if they found out it would cause major problems.

Ultimately I still favour bringing in the order of the scroll it could cause issues but as long as we aren't advertising our forbidden section we shouldn't have people banging down the door to destroy it.

It probably would have been easier to hide stuff id we'd taken the security option but roads not taken and all that. Just because we didn't take that as our main focus doesn't mean we can't take actions to ensure the forbidden side of the library remains unknown.

Also I doubt the thread will go for it but if we really want to avoid friction we could make an arrangement to give any books that would cause it to a Verenan library. That way the book is preserved as the knights want and Belegar doesn't have cults breathing down his neck.
 
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