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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Andres said:
Dwarves believe in continuously adding fortifications to something that has "enough" fortifications, which is why Mathilde didn't lose face when she added more defences to the Eye of Gazul even after she deemed it as having "enough" defences. The dwarven reaction to attaching a chapter of knights to the library would be "Oh sweet, more warriors added to the library's defences".
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This is one of those things that make me think that if people start digging more into Mathilde's actions, the more they might think, '...maybe she is a dwarf'.

I have this mental picture in my mind of Egrimm digging a bit into Mathilde's career, looking back at Waystone Project, and going, "you know, maybe we're taking this long to get properly started on the framework because she is a dwarf and this just isn't that long to her."
 
Listen fam, the Knights of the Scroll are no cap high-key based af. They're Verenapilled gigachads dripping with the scrollcore swag who vibe check cringe witch hunters when the sussy Sigmar simps start yeeting books onto pyres.
 
Andres said:
Listen fam, the Knights of the Scroll are no cap high-key based af. They're Verenapilled gigachads dripping with the scrollcore swag who vibe check cringe witch hunters when the sussy Sigmar simps start yeeting books onto pyres.
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I feel you could have fit 'kino' or 'poggers' in there somewhere if you'd really wished to deal more Chaos damage to us.
 
Some of that is internet speech, but I'm not comfortable with the AAVE just casually thrown in there as part of the joke. The African American community is already struggling to have their language recognised as a legitimate thing.
 
Andres said:
Which are the bad words?
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It's complicated and it's genuinely astonishing how many words people use but don't know that it came from the African American community. If I remember correctly, Fam, cap/no cap, simp, sus, low-key and high-key, swag and drip. Sus has been destroyed by the Amongus community, Swag and Drip were coopted by fashion, Simp was stretched out by the Twitch community etc. etc.

It's a pretty disheartening story once you try to track down how the words from a specific community were coopted then completely drained of meaning and context.
 
Codex said:
It's complicated and it's genuinely astonishing how many words people use but don't know that it came from the African American community. If I remember correctly, Fam, cap/no cap, simp, sus, low-key and high-key, swag and drip. Sus has been destroyed by the Amongus community, Swag and Drip were coopted by fashion, Simp was stretched out by the Twitch community etc. etc.

It's a pretty disheartening story once you try to track down how the words from a specific community were coopted then completely drained of meaning and context.
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A lot more than I thought. I'll delete my post, then?
 
Andres said:
Dwarves believe in continuously adding fortifications to something that has "enough" fortifications, which is why Mathilde didn't lose face when she added more defences to the Eye of Gazul even after she deemed it as having "enough" defences. The dwarven reaction to attaching a chapter of knights to the library would be "Oh sweet, more warriors added to the library's defences".
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This case is different. The Knights of the Scroll wouldn't be there because they don't think the local dwarves are powerful enough to adequately protect the books. Their job is to be there in case the Dwarves aren't adequately motivated to protect all the books. A bunch of knights aren't useless, but in terms of power they don't provide anything qualitatively different. But even if their motivation of protecting any and all books even against the likes of the Order of the Stone Wall or the Order of the Guardians isn't advertised, they are still there so that the Lorekeepers would feel that any books send this way are adequately protected, not just from assorted external threats but even from the locals.
Andres said:
I missed this earlier. Rafin, you really shouldn't have this as a red line. The construction, maintenance, and funding of the library is what we decided to get for our Transcendent Boon. Adding to the maintenance cost with more security is 100% acceptable. Also, the library is absolutely ginormous, so the knights' upkeep will be a drop in the bucket, to say nothing of the great amount of other martial forces effortlessly maintained by the karak. Finally, Boney's described Belegar's wealth as being "three kinds of infinite money" (two if you discount the We silk), which is why the thread had no qualms with commissioning a super library he'll pay for forever.
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It's not a red line. It's a minor con, just like I also listed a couple of minor pros. And the problem here wouldn't be the actual monetary amount, but the fact that Belegar would continue to pay for them even after they put their foot in their mouth and alienate people by being honest about their mission statement.

And yes, I am aware that something like this happening is far from being a given. The Knights of the Scroll are used to working in cities with a sizeable Witch Hunter population. And while part of their diplomacy probably involves occasional shows of strength and unwillingness to budge or collaborate so as to show off independence and conviction to rival theirs, another part almost definitely involves subtlety and not making a nuisance of themselves by antagonizing other Cults for no good reason. Which is part of why I listed "Several of the cons below are less than likely to cause problems any time soon" under pros.
Codex said:
It's complicated and it's genuinely astonishing how many words people use but don't know that it came from the African American community. If I remember correctly, Fam, cap/no cap, simp, sus, low-key and high-key, swag and drip. Sus has been destroyed by the Amongus community, Swag and Drip were coopted by fashion, Simp was stretched out by the Twitch community etc. etc.

It's a pretty disheartening story once you try to track down how the words from a specific community were coopted then completely drained of meaning and context.
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Isn't that just... what happens to language? A subculture uses their own slang, which then gets popular and ultimately coopted and used by more and more mainstream streams, often without the original context. I don't know how one would prevent something like that, nor do I know that one should really try.

Language is and remains a living thing. And it will always cross-pollinate faster than the underlying cultural roots.
 
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Rafin said:
Isn't that just... what happens to language? A subculture uses their own slang, which then gets popular and ultimately coopted and used by more and more mainstream streams, often without the original context. I don't know how one would prevent something like that, nor do I know that one should really try.
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You have the power to find these stuff out far better than anyone before you. The internet is capable of detecting these things and people from those communities can and have spoken out against the coopting of their language. If you have the power to do so, then it's considered respectful not to use language that doesn't belong to your subculture.
 
Codex said:
You have the power to find these stuff out far better than anyone before you. The internet is capable of detecting these things and people from those communities can and have spoken out against the coopting of their language. If you have the power to do so, then it's considered respectful not to use language that doesn't belong to your subculture.
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I guess I'll just say that I disagree with you to some extent, but that I also don't think that this is the place for me to rant about said disagreement. I'd be willing to do so elsewhere, but not before having a good night's sleep.
 
Rafin said:
I guess I'll just say that I disagree with you to some extent, but that I also don't think that this is the place for me to rant about said disagreement. I'd be willing to do so elsewhere, but not before having a good night's sleep.
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I don't want to talk to you about this topic. If you want to rant about it, go find someone else.
 
Andres said:
A lot more than I thought. I'll delete my post, then?
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I won't.

Language evolves, gets co-opted and abandoned all the time.

there are plenty of Irish words used by black and Jewish communities in new york, that are now just part of the English language. (Dude, Pal, Crack, dork and Jazz etc etc)

that's not a bad thing. I don't have a problem with it. I'm not going to claim that Ireland has more of a claim to the word Jazz than the American black community, it didn't have that much meaning to Irish immigrants; It is most definitely their word now.

it's not like Sus and No cap have social meaning greater to that community than what they have now to English as a whole.
 
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There is a difference between casual use of language and use of language as a joke to be made fun of. Notice that the intent of the joke was to have people go "my eyes hurt looking at this cringe", not "what a respectable use of slang, well done my fellow". One is a subject of mockery, the other is just a part of life.
 
Speaking of languages, I've been wondering: What's the general consensus here on using AP to actively study languages? Worthwhile, or is it more efficient to stick with learning them via immersion?

For that matter, what language do you all think would be ideal to learn next?
 
Codex said:
There is a difference between casual use of language and use of language as a joke to be made fun of. Notice that the intent of the joke was to have people go "my eyes hurt looking at this cringe", not "what a respectable use of slang, well done my fellow". One is a subject of mockery, the other is just a part of life.
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but want your argument is that by trying to mock teenage internet culture, they are mocking ethnic groups that use the same words.

I'm just pointing out that just because two groups use the same words doesn't mean that there is some greater connection, and that parodying one is automatically mocking the other.

otherwise, English as a whole is just one great mockery of others...

IT Tweens use a lot of ethic Slang, to the point that a lot of the slang is entering the Lexicon. that's just kind of an reality for English, mocking them for that is not mocking the ethic groups that they are stealing from.
 
So I know it's wildly early to be talking about this, but I have an Absolutely Deranged idea for next turn's actions and I would like to put it up on the town podium for you all to throw rotten vegetables at.

Plan Regard WEBMAT Quite A Lot Actually
-MAX: Receive dictation: The two orc papers in our backlog or one of the coin books
-EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm (Cape of Flashy Escapes)
-WEB-MAT: Hunt an apparition with a member of WEB-MAT (Rider in Red, Johann)
-WEB-MAT: I am assuming multiple Waystone actions will unlock
-WEB-MAT: And that some of them will be doable with WEB-MAT
-WEB-MAT: So maybe we can bang out three in a turn alongside other stuff
-Receive training: Grey College course on Apprentices (paying CF)

Like I said, it's completely deranged, but I really hope we get enough WEB-MAT actions unlocked from Lay the Foundations that this is possible, because it's both efficient and inherently hilarious.
Parabola said:
Speaking of languages, I've been wondering: What's the general consensus here on using AP to actively study languages? Worthwhile, or is it more efficient to stick with learning them via immersion?

For that matter, what language do you all think would be ideal to learn next?
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I'd be willing to actively study a language if a thing came up that called for it, but not speculatively. Like, if we go bookmining and there's tons of clearly magical books written in Nehekharan, hell yeah let's fire up Duolinguo and get to it. But I'm going to drag my heels about e.g. learning Arcane Khazalid before we know we need it.
 
Parabola said:
Speaking of languages, I've been wondering: What's the general consensus here on using AP to actively study languages? Worthwhile, or is it more efficient to stick with learning them via immersion?

For that matter, what language do you all think would be ideal to learn next?
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I think right now immersion is fine, but if we can wrestle some AP Kislev would be next. Kingland is understandable to a Riksel speaker and reader.
 
Parabola said:
Speaking of languages, I've been wondering: What's the general consensus here on using AP to actively study languages? Worthwhile, or is it more efficient to stick with learning them via immersion?

For that matter, what language do you all think would be ideal to learn next?
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No general consensus beyond "not right now". Definitely worthwhile as we're not gonna spend enough time in Tilea or hanging around Old Ones to learn their languages otherwise. I think the best language to learn next is Nehekharan since there's a lot of books in Drakenhof written in Nehekharan. Dark Tongue for the same reason. Aside from that, Tilean is my preference. Both Kislev witches speak Reikspiel already and we can't buy books from Kislev, so best to go with the language that can grab us Estalian and Tilean books through Barak Varr.
 
Andres said:
No general consensus beyond "not right now". Definitely worthwhile as we're not gonna spend enough time in Tilea or hanging around Old Ones to learn their languages otherwise. I think the best language to learn next is Nehekharan since there's a lot of books in Drakenhof written in Nehekharan. Dark Tongue for the same reason. Aside from that, Tilean is my preference. Both Kislev witches speak Reikspiel already and we can't buy books from Kislev, so best to go with the language that can grab us Estalian and Tilean books through Barak Varr.
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We theorize there are a lot of Nehekharan books in Drakenhof.

I certainly wouldn't support spending AP to learn High Nehekharan without knowing if we'll use it first.
 
Speaking of WEB-MAT, as a rule of thumb, @Boney is it accurate we shouldn't do more than two actions with the same person a turn or else they start getting annoyed by us hogging their time? Or is it three actions?
 
Andres said:
No general consensus beyond "not right now". Definitely worthwhile as we're not gonna spend enough time in Tilea or hanging around Old Ones to learn their languages otherwise. I think the best language to learn next is Nehekharan since there's a lot of books in Drakenhof written in Nehekharan. Dark Tongue for the same reason. Aside from that, Tilean is my preference. Both Kislev witches speak Reikspiel already and we can't buy books from Kislev, so best to go with the language that can grab us Estalian and Tilean books through Barak Varr.
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but from what I understand most of the old world languages that are commonly spoken today are mostly understandable to one another.

with Kislev being the big exception.

so I would put that as the next one to learn myself.
 
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