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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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You know I would be interested in seeing if the Eonir have any greatsword users we could look into learning from at some point, though that's not urgent in any way.

But beyond that, I really do feel it's time to focus on the waystones rather that the Ghyran nut or any other research project.

Hedgewise do feel like a good idea and testing out the father face on Haletha is definitely something I approve of.
 
All right, turn plan time.For the next turn plan I propose two variants. The first is the reasonable one?

[ ] Father and Foundations
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (Adela Burgstaller)
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: Windsoak mushrooms book
-[ ] EGRIMM: Study an artefact: Kurgan enchanted weapons
-[ ] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Nordlander Hedgewise)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (House Tindomiel)
-[ ] Lay the foundations
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace
-[ ] KAU: Seek an agreement with a Karak to have access to their libraries (Karak Vlag) / Scribes action
-[ ] SERENITY: Write a paper: Comprehensive notes on possible terrain obstacles? Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands? Write that dwarf diplomacy book?
-[ ] COIN: The Father
(contains one overwork action)

The second, for those who dare to dream:

[ ] Father and Foundations Deluxe
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (Adela Burgstaller)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Nordlander Hedgewise)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Bretonnian Damsels)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (House Tindomiel)
-[ ] Lay the foundations
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace
-[ ] KAU: Seek an agreement with a Karak to have access to their libraries (Karak Vlag)
-[ ] SERENITY: Windsoak Mushroom Book 1/2
-[ ] COIN: The Father
(contains one overwork action)

Some notes:
  • My original plan was to codify Rite Of Way. I've seen some worries that maybe we should put the Gambler on that, and I've seen others that prefer doing AV research. I think swording is a good compromise because I feel like there's a pretty wide consensus that it's something we need to work on, and if we keep going on side quests it's something that we better get working on sooner rather than later. It's also a project with a very clear end in sight, which is always nice.
  • Father and Foundations Deluxe drops the WEB-MAT actions other than getting a pilot in exchange for getting us some Damsels. We could also keep the WEB-MAT actions and drop the sword training, but I think this way is probably better. Note that I'm not sure this is a good idea even if the books looks promising (I'll be posting my questions about the books soon btw)
  • If we're not dictating the mushroom book to Max we start writing it through our tower. Either way I want us to get on with writing this damn thing.
  • I am going to approval vote any and all plans that only differ on the EIC or KAU or WEB-MAT or paper sections, unless and until they are the only plans in the running. In particular I think @picklepikkl's Plan Disregard WEBMAT, Acquire AP is fine
 
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DragonParadox said:
That was a total of +47 stuff for the books which at the cost of 50 Gold/+1 would be 2350 worth of books if we had gotten them normally. It is really nice to have that Old Hold bankroll :)
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2350gc of books blows the next best option -- 1500gc from Barak Varr booksellers -- out of the water, yeah.
Andres said:
I'd prefer to bring in the Hedgewise rather than study the Ghyran Nut since we're doing Lay the Foundations this turn, plus I want to see more of the Hedgewise.
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I personally agree, but there are a lot of people who really really want the coin on Lay the Foundations, and recruiting the Hedgewise without using the Father might actually give mathymancer an aneurysm.
Jreengus said:
I believe you said we could go apparition hunting with Johann as a WEBMAT action.
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Already there:
Boney said:
[ ] WEB-MAT: Hunt an apparition with a member of WEB-MAT (specify who and which) (NEW)
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Alliterate said:
[ ] Write something else: <Insert punny name of Ranald according to the Dammerlichtreiter>...
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I'm down. Fun topic, full library bonus, helps people, and raises our god's profile in a beneficial way.

Alliterate said:
Of the pre-listed paper options, these are about to drop a bonus category:

Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)

Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands (MOSTLY FADED)
Observations on the Chaos Wastes in the western Great Steppes (MOSTLY FADED)
Windsoak Mushrooms - Ulgu (MOSTLY FADED)
Windsoak Mushrooms - Aqshy(MOSTLY FADED)
Windsoak Mushrooms - Ghyran (MOSTLY FADED)
Windsoak Mushrooms - Azyr (MOSTLY FADED)
Comprehensive notes on possible terrain obstacles (MOSTLY FADED)
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This list is from last turn. We did the paper on his prosthetic and all those mostly faded topics are now faded.

picklepikkl said:
I personally agree, but there are a lot of people who really really want the coin on Lay the Foundations, and recruiting the Hedgewise without using the Father might actually give mathymancer an aneurysm.
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I couldn't care less about putting the coin on Lay the Foundations for what it's worth. We've stacked the deck pretty high on making everything work out in that regard, so let's go and make the project work better by including another group.
 
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Alliterate said:
Of the pre-listed paper options, these are about to drop a bonus category:

Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)

Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands (MOSTLY FADED)
Observations on the Chaos Wastes in the western Great Steppes (MOSTLY FADED)
Windsoak Mushrooms - Ulgu (MOSTLY FADED)
Windsoak Mushrooms - Aqshy(MOSTLY FADED)
Windsoak Mushrooms - Ghyran (MOSTLY FADED)
Windsoak Mushrooms - Azyr (MOSTLY FADED)
Comprehensive notes on possible terrain obstacles (MOSTLY FADED)
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This is how it all stood last turn, the prosthetic paper is written and the rest has faded.
 
Boney said:
- This is about as loud a hint you're going to get that if you delay the Waystone Project any further, there may be consequences.
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Thanks God, at last we will begin! Honestly I don't really care about what we're doing this turn as long as we lay the foundations, and that's basically guaranteed to happen, so I'm happy🙃
 
All right, time to get our money's worth for those Bretonnian books. @Boney, some questions about our new books (and I could probably think of some more questions but this already feels like a bit much, if this is excessive let me know and I'll trim it down)
  • What are Shallyan attitudes towards The Lady, and vice versa
    • What place does Shallya's cult have in Bretonnian society, and how does it interact with the worship of The Lady?
    • Is there anything about specifically the attitudes and interactions of Grail Knights and Damsels with Shallyans?
    • Is there anyone drawing a connection between The Lady and Shallya, such as one being a guise of the other? If so, are those offical teachings by either Cult or heresies by some followers of the deities?
  • Is there any mention of Ranald's ascension myth in Shallyan writings? In The Lady's writings?
    • Anyone drawing a connection between the chalice of the myth and the holy grail?
  • Is there any explicit reference to Ranald in The Lady's teachings?
    • If not, are there explicit references to other Gods in The Lady's teachings, such that the absence of Ranald is notable?
  • Are V shaped symbols used to represent the grail, or the lake, or anything else to do with The Lady? Any chevron symbols?
  • Does The Lady have anything to say about lying? Presumably it is bad because chivalry and all that, but can Mathilde see anything more complicated or deep then that?
  • Is the use of 'polite fictions' prevalent in Bretonnian society? I mean, as far as the books show. I imagine no one is going to write that sort of stuff down, but maybe reading between the lines can reveal something.
    • Are the attitudes of Carcassonne about truth considered unusual, such that in the rest of Bretonnian society the kind of polite fictions we got on our visit there won't be commonplace?
  • Any mention at all of the Herrimaults?
    • If so, what do the two religions make of them?
    • What does Bretonnian society make of them?
    • Any mention/legend/hint that Grail Knights or Damsels sometimes join/help them?
 
Ok I'm going to throw out a no recruitment plan for next turn:

[] Plan: No Recruitment
-[] One Overwork
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (Adela)
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Hunt an apparition with a member of WEB-MAT (Johann, Red Rider)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm (Ring of Sudden Dawn, Take No Heed/Radiant Gaze)
-[ ] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
--[] Coin: The Gambler
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
-[ ] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
-[ ] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire.
-[ ] The many legends about the amount of books contained within and under Castle Drakenhof still haunt you. Organize an expedition to mine the ruins for books
-[] Serenity: Windsoak Mushrooms Book


Ok so this plan disregards any further recruitment in favour of a smorgasboard of different actions people want. Not everyone will want to do everything in here but I hope everyone will have something they want to do in here.

Of particular note I want to point out that if we do the windherding ring this turn we can gift it to the head of the Longshanks as thanks for their help, to build on our relationship with him, which will be usefull as I suspect we may want to recruit the cult of Taal later due to their habit of making waystones into holy sites. Even if they don't have any knowledge a good relation will get us easier access.
 
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mathymancer said:
If we're not dictating the mushroom book to Max we start writing it through our tower. Either way I want us to get on with writing this damn thing.
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We just got a lead on Chamon plants in the Laurelorn trip with Panoramia, so best to investigate that first. We've got other books we can write in the meantime, and I do acknowledge that the meantime can be a lot, but lots of books to write so who cares?
 
picklepikkl said:
[-] Plan Disregard WEBMAT, Acquire AP
-[-] One Overwork Action
-[-] COIN: The Father
-[-] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (Adela)
-[-] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
-[-] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Nordlander Haléthan Hedgewise)
-[-] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Tindomiel)
-[-] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[-] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
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I really like this plan, I will just propose my very similar plan that has us research the AV interaction with powerstones as a WEBMAT action with Egrimm so we get a free WEBMAT action to write a book with Max:

[ ] Plan Research is more fun with friends
-[ ] OVERWORK: Slot 1
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: Book on Windsoak Mushrooms
-[ ] EGRIMM: Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (Adela)
-[ ] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
-[ ] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Nordlander Haléthan Hedgewise)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Tindomiel)
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire.
-[ ] LIBRARY: The many legends about the amount of books contained within and under Castle Drakenhof still haunt you. Organize an expedition to mine the ruins for books.
-[ ] SERENITY: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[ ] COIN: The Father
 
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mathymancer said:
[ ] Father and Foundations
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (Adela Burgstaller)
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: Windsoak mushrooms book
-[ ] EGRIMM: Study an artefact: Kurgan enchanted weapons
-[ ] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Nordlander Hedgewise)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (House Tindomiel)
-[ ] Lay the foundations
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace
-[ ] KAU: Seek an agreement with a Karak to have access to their libraries (Karak Vlag) / Scribes action
-[ ] SERENITY: Write a paper: Comprehensive notes on possible terrain obstacles? Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands? Write that dwarf diplomacy book?
-[ ] COIN: The Father
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I've already registered my opinion on how I feel a single Mathilde action this turn is better than two WEBMAT actions, but setting that aside for the moment, I would like to suggest that rather than having Egrimm study the Kurgan weapons (which is probably a one-and-done action that just leads to a paper or to selling the items to the Colleges for money and CF), we could take another stab at Windherding with him. Last time, we succeeded in making the item, but because Mathilde rolled so badly we didn't progress our knowledge of Windherding at all, and the update was clear that we'd need to try again to find out how to progress that line of research. I strongly believe that's the best action he can take this turn, though I don't think that it's worth sacrificing the Mathilde AP to do it (I want to get closer to finding an application of AV the Colleges might want, for instance).
Andres said:
We just got a lead on Chamon plants in the Laurelorn trip with Panoramia, so best to investigate that first. We've got other books we can write in the meantime, and I do acknowledge that the meantime can be a lot, but lots of books to write so who cares?
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What lead? There's no new action in our list to take or research to do. Let's just write the book and let other people solve the Chamon and Shyish problems. Perfect is the enemy of good enough.
 
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Jreengus said:
Of particular note I want to point out that if we do the windherding ring this turn we can gift it to the head of the Longshanks as thanks for their help
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I'm opposed to plans that don't recruit the Hedgewise with the Father this turn so I won't be voting for this plan anyway, but on this specific note:
other possible gifts to the Longshanks are the Kurgan weapons, which we can have Egrimm study, and which might have more value to them than the ring (and also that way we cross out another thing from our blacklog). And if you're deadset on Windherding, I think a better item idea is @LawsOfRobotics cloak of flashy escapes.

picklepikkl said:
I've already registered my opinion on how I feel a single Mathilde action this turn is better than two WEBMAT actions, but setting that aside for the moment, I would like to suggest that rather than having Egrimm study the Kurgan weapons (which is probably a one-and-done action that just leads to a paper or to selling the items to the Colleges for money and CF), we could take another stab at Windherding with him. Last time, we succeeded in making the item, but because Mathilde rolled so badly we didn't progress our knowledge of Windherding at all, and the update was clear that we'd need to try again to find out how to progress that line of research. I strongly believe that's the best action he can take this turn, though I don't think that it's worth sacrificing the Mathilde AP to do it (I want to get closer to finding an application of AV the Colleges might want, for instance).
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I think you're coming from the perspective that Mathilde personal actions are a scrace resource while WEB-MAT actions are sure to happen in most future turns, but I think Egrimm will likely be busy with Waystone stuff in the future so doing some research with him while we can is not a bad idae. This can be Windherding (see above) or this could be AV (AV uses in enchantment has been confirmed to be something we can study with Egrimm, though it may be a dead end and I personally prefer playing with powerstones), it could be the Kurgan weapons. As I said, this isn't a big deal for me, I'll approval vote anything that changes the WEB-MAT actions but leaves the general shape of the plan intact.
 
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[ ] SERENITY: Write something else: Mathilde's perspective on Ranald and pro-social worship of Him, My Oldest and Most Annoying Friend, book 1/2.
 
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mathymancer said:
I'm opposed to plans that don't recruit the Hedgewise with the Father this turn so I won't be voting for this plan anyway, but on this specific note:
other possible gifts to the Longshanks are the Kurgan weapons, which we can have Egrimm study, and which might have more value to them than the ring (and also that way we cross out another thing from our blacklog). And if you're deadset on Windherding, I think a better item idea is @LawsOfRobotics cloak of flashy escapes.
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The weapons seem like more of a gamble and do nothing to advance windherding, they're just a one and done. While I'd be willing to go for the cloak if there's a lot of support for it an anti daemon/undead weapons seems more appropriate for the witchunter to me.
 
picklepikkl said:
What lead? There's no new action in our list to take or research to do. Let's just write the book and let other people solve the Chamon and Shyish problems. Perfect is the enemy of good enough.
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Huh, thought the Research and Publishing section had a write in for that. Guess not though, so never mind. I'll support the book on the basis that it gives Panoramia some reputation herself.
 
Jreengus said:
The weapons seem like more of a gamble and do nothing to advance windherding, they're just a one and done. While I'd be willing to go for the cloak if there's a lot of support for it an anti daemon/undead weapons seems more appropriate for the witchunter to me.
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In what way is the ring a better anti daemon/undead weapon? The cloak uses the same offensive spell (Dazzling Brightness) and I seriously doubt that Pay No Heed will be more helpful to someone hunting undead/daemons than Shadowcloak. It's also a more versatile item.
 
mathymancer said:
other possible gifts to the Longshanks are the Kurgan weapons, which we can have Egrimm study, and which might have more value to them than the ring (and also that way we cross out another thing from our blacklog). And if you're deadset on Windherding, I think a better item idea is @LawsOfRobotics cloak of flashy escapes.
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I hadn't considered the possibility of gifting the Kurgan weapons to someone else. I don't think that's likely to work, though: between the general Imperial distrust of magic and the specific provenance of these weapons (Kurgan encampment), I think takers for wielding them will be relatively thin on the ground, and I especially don't think the Longshanks would want them over something more specifically Taalite.

Has Boney OKed the Cloak of Flashy Escapes as a Windherding project? I couldn't find QM signoff on it anywhere.
Alliterate said:
[ ] SERENITY: Write something else: My Oldest and Most Annoying Friend, book 1/2.
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The idea of encouraging other Ranaldites to follow Ranald the way Mathilde does like Heidi talked about is cute, but I don't think it's a good one. Mathilde isn't tapped in to a Ranaldite community, she's not a faith leader or trusted mystic, nobody really knows her as a Ranaldite or looks to her for guidance. If we'd taken the perk back after the reclamation of K8P that turned Mathilde into a recognized mystic for Ranald, or if we'd taken the High Priest of Ranald job after Dum, then I think we'd be in a position to influence them. But we've consistently chosen things other than influence among Ranaldites, so my prediction is that this book will accomplish very little other than some warm fuzzies, and compared to the other books and papers we could write that doesn't feel compelling as a possibility.
LawsOfRobotics said:
I really like this plan, I will just propose my very similar plan that has us research the AV interaction with powerstones as a WEBMAT action with Egrimm so we get a free WEBMAT action to write a book with Max:
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I don't believe we're allowed to use WEBMAT actions for AV research, otherwise I agree it would be a slam dunk (though I'd prefer to do the testing with Johann rather than Egrimm).
 
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mathymancer said:
In what way is the ring a better anti daemon/undead weapon? The cloak uses the same offensive spell (Dazzling Brightness) and I seriously doubt that Pay No Heed will be more helpful to someone hunting undead/daemons than Shadowcloak. It's also a more versatile item.
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The ring uses radiant gaze, which fires a beam of hysh with its natural anti-daemon/undead properties.
 
@Boney is my idea for the Cloak of Flashy Escapes a valid windherding item?
LawsOfRobotics said:
I had another idea for a windherding enchantment that we could try. The idea is a riding cloak that has Shadowcloak and Dazzling Brightness enchantments. The idea is that it is useful escape/utility item that we could use as windherding practice because it combines 2 Relatively Simple spells. There could be one quick incantation to activate both the dazzle and Shadowcloak, and a different incantation to activate just Shadowcloak. The idea is that if you are sneaking and get spotted you can break line of sight and then hide, or the user can just become really sneaky on demand. It feels like a useful item we could either use ourselves, or give to the Hochlander, or give to Eike when she becomes our apprentice. It might be over-complicated and less effective to use windherding for something like this compared to just making a cloak with Shroud of Invisibility but that is a more difficult Moderately Complicated spell so maybe it balances out. As for the name I am calling it the Cloak of Flashy Escapes.
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picklepikkl said:
If we'd taken the perk back after the reclamation of K8P that turned Mathilde into a recognized mystic for Ranald, or if we'd taken the High Priest of Ranald job after Dum, then I think we'd be in a position to influence them. But we've consistently chosen things other than influence among Ranaldites, so my prediction is that this book will accomplish very little other than some warm fuzzies, and compared to the other books and papers we could write that doesn't feel compelling as a possibility.
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It would also probably have to be released either anonymously, or propagated merely among ranaldians, because you are supposed to worship Ranald in (relative) secret, i think?
 
mathymancer said:
I have no idea how I missed that. I still prefer the cloak, but I suppose the ring is a better weapon (though I really, really don't like it - one reason is that by all rights the Ulgu spell it should be using is Cloak Activity, we're only using Take No Heed because Mathilde can actually cast that one)
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I think ideally it would want both, but that isn't an option. Take no heed should keep people from noticing it is an enchanted ring, cloak activity would prevent them from noticing you lining up the shot.
 
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