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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Andres said:
Unless you truly believe we'll do Apparition-related work next turn, it's really not a good idea to buy books for them right now.
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Personally I'm 100% down for a plan that doesn't do any recruiting and instead focuses on personal improvement with just the Laying the foundations action next turn. That can easily fit in apparitions.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill.
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir
 
Deathbybunnies said:
What's the rationale behind buying the babushka an axe? It seems pretty random.
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Specifically a practical gift for her village full of woodcutters since as a dwarven axe it will be both good for woodcutting and for gribbly cutting which is something they need. Also the hedgefolk as I understand it play very heavily into being useful to their community in order to survive when witch hunters come looking so absent any knowledge about what she personally would like something useful for her village seems like a good gift to me.
 
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir, A dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen

[X] [LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Apparitions, Power Stones, Forest Spirits, Liminal Realms
 
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[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill.
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir, The Karaz Ankor: Extensive and Esoteric Eonir, a dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen
 
Andres said:
There aren't that many full magical topics we badly to want to get. Apparitions of course, Forest Spirits since we're working with them in the waystone project, and that's about it. We want Power Stones for AV, but we can get that for the same 4 CF you want for the Apparitions but at 100 gc less. Divine Magic's good but we already have Antiquarian. Liminal Realms, Potions, and Rituals would all be fully filled, but we have no projects or even potential papers on them.

Unless you truly believe we'll do Apparition-related work next turn, it's really not a good idea to buy books for them right now.
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I mean I obviously can't foresee the future. I can know I'll vote for doing it. But whether it wins who can say.

Honestly though this talk about 100 gold worth of efficiency rings a bit hollow when we're spending 200 gold on incredibly speculative religion probes. So spending on apparitions now to help keep the door open does not seem particularly out of line.

Also, if the other magical topics are of little interest, it would seem to me better to just not take that option and spend library purchases on non magical choices.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill.
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir, The Karaz Ankor: Extensive and Esoteric Eonir, a dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen
 
BurnNote said:
And that mass production is an issue for the dwarfs, because it goes against their whole framework of production. If each shell is handcrafted, then you just won't have the ammunition for the sort of industrialized war that characterised WW1. And each shell will be so precious that throwing it blind doesn't make any sense, you have to make each count. A really quick estimate gives me something like 37 shells per hit in WW1 (20 Million+20 mio wounded, and half of that is civillians, vs 1.5 Billion shells. Though the last number isn't something I would bet a lot on. It's huge regardless) Dwarfs cannot afford that level of waste. I don't know what the rate for bullets is, but it's pretty terrible too.
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I think there's a bit of a technological leap being taken here. Long before WW1 style artillery, cannons were a really big deal, and those must have gone through an absurd amount of cannonballs and gunpowder, too. The dwarves must be able to keep up with the Empire's cannon and cannon-shot production somehow.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill.
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir, Apparitions: Extensive and Esoteric Imperial, A dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen
 
[x] [LIBRARY] Back-fill

The Apparition Book Question, as far as I can tell, is mostly dependent on "do you think we might be able to fit in apparition binding next turn".

I think that is really the core argument to focus on here, moreso than CF/money optimization.

I am still undecided on the matter myself.

Also, I see some people voting for "The Karaz Ankor: Extensive and Esoteric Eonir", and some people not, but I don't see any discussion on the matter. Could some of the people who're consciously voting one way or the other share their reasoning for their choice?
 
LadyLynn said:
Also, I see some people voting for "The Karaz Ankor: Extensive and Esoteric Eonir", and some people not, but I don't see any discussion on the matter. Could some of the people who're consciously voting one way or the other share their reasoning for their choice?
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Andres wants us to write a book on diplomacy with dwarves for the benefit of the Empire's foreign service, and wants to max out the book bonus available to us before doing so. Other people do not view this as an immediate priority. There was some discussion about this on page 11801.
 
LadyLynn said:
The Apparition Book Question, as far as I can tell, is mostly dependent on "do you think we might be able to fit in apparition binding next turn".
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That and "Are we really in a rush to do it next turn". There really isn't anything stopping us from delaying it a single turn and doing something else with that AP.

Karaz Ankor books are a worthier purchase because there's no book or paper better to write than a dwarf diplomacy book. We could delay it, but there's no reason to. Meanwhile there is a reason to delay the Apparition books: we can get them for free this very next turn when we take the Colleges library action.
 
LadyLynn said:
The Apparition Book Question, as far as I can tell, is mostly dependent on "do you think we might be able to fit in apparition binding next turn".
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I would like to get it done next turn, but even if we don't I really don't see that it's the end of the world or that it was a wasted purchase to get it this turn. We don't need to be working on a just in time system here necessarily. Having the books leaves our options opens for what is really not a high cost.

Meanwhile there's no guarantees at all the college magic purchase option will be one we want to take in the near future. There will still be backfilling to do, Eonir rare books available, etc, etc.
 
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picklepikkl said:
Andres wants us to write a book on diplomacy with dwarves for the benefit of the Empire's foreign service, and wants to max out the book bonus available to us before doing so. Other people do not view this as an immediate priority. There was some discussion about this on page 11801.
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For the benefit for the Empire and everyone at its borders. Bretonnia, Kislev, the Eonir, Tilea, and the Dwarves themselves all stand to benefit as well. It would be a valuable and beneficial book to all these parties, giving us reputation, money, and letting us do a much greater amount of good than any other writing option.
 
Phalfpipe said:
It's probably hard to get rate of fire when every shell has to be handmade by an artisan instead of an assembly line, and it's not like you can do the Somme when all of it has to be transported by wagon and barge instead of by train and steamer.
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Yeah, but you only need to do the Somme when the enemy is smart enough to entrench heavily, and of the enemies of Order, just about only the Chaos Dwarves and the Dark Elves are smart and adaptable enough to even consider it seriously.
 
Derpmind said:
I think there's a bit of a technological leap being taken here. Long before WW1 style artillery, cannons were a really big deal, and those must have gone through an absurd amount of cannonballs and gunpowder, too. The dwarves must be able to keep up with the Empire's cannon and cannon-shot production somehow.
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The discussion line was about WW1 style stuff, and the post I replied to talked about breech loaders with indirecte fire. So that's the context of the post, but you're correct it's quite the technological distance. The origin was the tech seen in Vermintide, which is both the future, and cutting edge prototypes of a radical genius. It's far enough away to be quite unlikely to ever be widespread during the quest, but Mathilde could live to see it.

Anyway, yes, the dwarfs can currently keep up with the empire. But we're also still in the period where a hundred, front loading, canons is the biggest concentration of artillery ever seen. And that artillery has a firing rate of 'per hour', rather than 'per minute'. And each shell is less complex (the dwarfs have elongated munitions, but it seems that's for aerodynamics). I don't think there's any fuzes in use, which would massively increase the time required, but are huge for effectivness, especially indirect fire. That's where you get the huge manpower requirement.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Yeah, but you only need to do the Somme when the enemy is smart enough to entrench heavily, and of the enemies of Order, just about only the Chaos Dwarves and the Dark Elves are smart and adaptable enough to even consider it seriously.
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Nah. The Skaven are underground, and are almost made for it. Orks are tough and consider cunning a religious duty (see the use of the Underworld fire mountain: They didn't charge back in). Beastmen are super sneaky in forests, good luck hitting them with long-range artillery there, and have literal magic mobility. And Chaos is crazy, but the crazy is always different and doesn't always prevent them from acting appropriately. Hell, trench warfare is nearly Nurgles ideal form of warfare.
 
Andres said:
That and "Are we really in a rush to do it next turn". There really isn't anything stopping us from delaying it a single turn and doing something else with that AP.

Karaz Ankor books are a worthier purchase because there's no book or paper better to write than a dwarf diplomacy book. We could delay it, but there's no reason to. Meanwhile there is a reason to delay the Apparition books: we can get them for free this very next turn when we take the Colleges library action.
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True, if one is confident about taking the College library action next turn, then I think apparition books now would feel like a waste.

Okay, humm, its about three main things in my eyes then...

1: How likely you think it is for us to be able to fit in apparition binding next turn
2: How many other library actions do you think we might do before we get to the college one
3: Do you want to just be done with prepping for apparitions and not have to worry about it anymore

More to think about, I suppose. I think for me the main factor is whether I want to do book-mining next turn... Which is in turn somewhat dependent on how likely it might be to immediately turn into a mini-adventure, because I'm a little exhausted of mini-adventures for now.

Are there any other notable library actions that people are highly interested in that might be prioritized above the College library action?
 
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LadyLynn said:
Are there any other notable library actions that people are highly interested in that might be prioritized above the College library action?
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We're probably not doing Back-fill again period, certainly not doing it two turns in a row.
The only high demand Eonir books left are Trade, Forest Spirits, and Karaz Ankor; we're buying Trade this turn, Library of Mournings won't be needed if we buy KA this turn, and Forest Spirits is ultimately only a gold cost, not a gold+CF cost.
There's no mundane Imperial/Dwarven books in high demand like Apparitions and Forest Spirits are (though the continued lack of silk sheets may suggest Textiles), so it's not competition for Colleges.
 
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