- Location
- Belgrade, Serbia
There are, however aids and shortcuts. Like using poison for casting Burning Shadows. Some might be found for our spells as well in time.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
There are, however aids and shortcuts. Like using poison for casting Burning Shadows. Some might be found for our spells as well in time.
Honestly, it's frankly criminal that the college with a sword on its banner doesn't have an appropriate, thematic sword-spell. As the most prominent sword-user in the Grey College, we should be the one to make it, and more importantly, have our name on it - potentially having her name on the go-to tool for dispensing the Grey Order's justice upon the enemies of the Empire would be quite the feather in Mathilde's cap. And maybe later on we can incorporate a personalised Mindrazor into an upgraded version 
If we haven't started a trend of sword usage amongst the baby grey wizards by this point we're not trying hard enough tbh.
If we haven't started a trend of sword usage amongst the baby grey wizards by this point we're not trying hard enough tbh.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
So, rite of way is only usable as we do because of our staff. Codifying it is less useful if the casting wizard explodes every third day on average, so I'm less interested even if the potential *should it work* be higher.
If we can re-engineer it down to fiendishly complex or bind it into a battle altar (which I'd point out would be battle-magic enchanting, since we aren't casting our staff won't help) then ok. Otherwise, it's kind of a trap.
If you want that, we have substance of shadow on a normal sword. Given that a shadow sword that passes through armor wouldn't be able to parry anything, increasing the size seems like making it less ulgu-friendly for entirely aesthetic reasons.
Seriously, if people WANT to practice branarlhune in a sparring setting, we CAN'T use lethal spells for that: it defeats the entire purpose of sparring to murder our partners.
If we can re-engineer it down to fiendishly complex or bind it into a battle altar (which I'd point out would be battle-magic enchanting, since we aren't casting our staff won't help) then ok. Otherwise, it's kind of a trap.
If you want that, we have substance of shadow on a normal sword. Given that a shadow sword that passes through armor wouldn't be able to parry anything, increasing the size seems like making it less ulgu-friendly for entirely aesthetic reasons.
Seriously, if people WANT to practice branarlhune in a sparring setting, we CAN'T use lethal spells for that: it defeats the entire purpose of sparring to murder our partners.
- Location
- Earth
Do you have a source for that? I did a quick search and couldn't find it.
I'm using the figures from here. And just to clarify, I lumped together 'Elite Battle Wizards' and 'Battle Wizards' (5+25) to form that initial figure of ~30, and counted 'Graduated Battle Wizards' with normal LMs and rounded that to 10 for that final sum of ~40.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Agreed. Once we've finished the invention of Branarhune as a sword style I might like to look into the possibility of an Ulgu spell based upon it.Honestly, it's frankly criminal that the college with a sword on its banner doesn't have an appropriate, thematic sword-spell. As the most prominent sword-user in the Grey College, we should be the one to make it, and more importantly, have our name on it - potentially having her name on the go-to tool for dispensing the Grey Order's justice upon the enemies of the Empire would be quite the feather in Mathilde's cap.And maybe later on we can incorporate a personalised Mindrazor into an upgraded version
But that's really a matter of chickens and unhatched eggs. Depending as it does on the (in my mind plausible) but far from certain results of grandmastery having at least some applicability to spells.
I really hate this hyperbole argument that comes up every time, Battle magic is not this bad, especially for the battle wizards with their traits. you know this. it's been said even by boney.
Its not an argument, it's just an attempt at killing discourse, because there's no point talking about something with someone that will just yell. 'will absolutely kill us, don't do, not once!'. even if the QM themselves has said that there are ways of minimising the danger.
Rite of way will always be safest and most effective when done by mathy. but even a little version could be a game-changer for battle. even if its just getting the artillery passed a very boggy patch of road on the way to the field or used as a last moment aid for a cavertly charge.
if its a game-changer for a battle, it's legitimate battle magic.
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- Location
- Earth
We're not using a spell creation trait, we're codifying a mastery. Emphasis mine:
M / Shadow Knives: You conjure and throw several knives (scaling with magical ability and mastery of the spell) at a target at short range that passes through any non-magical armour.
Mastery - Blessed Hands: You instinctively channel Ulgu along any weapon you wield. Any weapon held by you counts as Magical.
Mastery - Shadow Dagger: Can be used as a melee weapon that completely ignores non-magical armour. Well suited for assassination
Enchanter: You have a talent for taming the winds of magic and trapping them within objects. +10 bonus to rolls to learn or use enchanting skills.
Enchantment: Able to enchant objects with Fiendishly Complex spells and below
not my own pet project, but mathy does have enough traits/masteries/spell knowledge that a 'blade' related enchantment is not off the table.
how successful it will be? I don't know.
I am glad you do not plan to make those jokes in the thread. It would make the environment feel hostile for some of us.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Please consider the difference b
between a spell that is used once or twice in a battle every few months vs a spell that is most useful when constantly cast every day for a week or a month.
Logistics are great and improving them is very useful, but they occur over much longer time scales. Battle-magic may be safer with traits, but it's still fundementally a sprinter's game.
Rite of Way is a marathon.
I see no swords there. Nor anything that would get us to a sword. If your argument is that "it's just a dagger but bigger" then I'd be interested in *why* you think that the case: daggers are associated with skulduggery, crime, assassinations, and unexpected betrayals. Swords are associated with nobility, knighthood, honor, and war.
Two very different things from a magical perspective.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Meh, if we were going to make an Ulgu sword spell, I would probably want to learn the Penumbral Pendulum and rework that into a handheld spell. Not sure how viable it would be though.
We do have a Master Swordsman trait, but it probably wouldn't be enough.
We do have a Master Swordsman trait, but it probably wouldn't be enough.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Given the limitations of Substance of Shadow (principally, the fact that it can only be used in shadow), I don't think that'd be terribly feasible.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I've said this before, but sparring with Johann in a dark room is the only non-lethal possibility I've ever seen for simulating the relevant rune.
Certainly better than a lethal sword that ignores other swords. And armor.
Unless they are helping a charge.
There are very valuable tactical uses for Rite of Way, and as someone who does not want to work on it, pretending that an action is less useful than it is just because you don't want to spend the AP is dirty pool.
As Mathy uses it, yes.
but even a limited version, over very short space and time, even just a school pool, would still be very, very ,very useful logistically even today. let along in the days of canons over potholes, bogland and gravel roads. even just ten seconds of ferm grip can get a stuck Hellstorm out of a ditch that they would have otherwise had to leave behind.
and on the tactical level? one of the worst things that can happen in a cav change is one of the lead horses tripping and taking a third of the group out with them before they hit.
anyone that has had to deal with trackers, vans or any vicles on shitty country roads (or just the average Irish road) can see the value of even a very limited version of 'suddenly good road.'
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- Location
- Earth
I mean, Okkam's Mindrazor. We could learn it and then make a spell that scales it down to single-person.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
There are uses, for sure. If it is cast like battle magic: once or twice in a battle, a few battles a month.
But it won't be useful in the way we use it, to speed small armies across difficult terrain over the course of days or weeks.
And that's been where the value has been so far.
So no, I'm not trying to pretend it had no uses. But because turnabout is fair play, trying to sell the action based on the value it has when used like Mathilde does is also dirty pool.
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- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him
And what is war but a game of deception?
If we had taken General of fog it might've been easier, but a warrior of fog who wields a blade of darkness is very ulgu.
And what is Mathilde if not a knight of twilight? Someone who protects people by doing things in the dark, but can still fight in the light of day.
The metaphysical weight is there for Mathilde to make a sword of shadows. She would just have to frame it properly in her mind.
- Location
- Earth
The feasibility of at least attempting to make the spell is not in doubt. From the Approved Spells threadmark:
- Location
- United States
Have we actually used Shadow Dagger at any point?
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Warfare may be; personal combat is not.
I can see why you want it, but this reads a lot to me like pitching a shadow-shifted variant of fireball.
There's nothing I see in ulgu that it's about chopping people apart.
Chamon, yes: metal swords.
Aqushy yes: hot blood on battlefields.
Ghur, sure: duels as a sort of evolved dominance challenge, red in tooth and claw?
Amethysts even- then amount of things that die to swords is not small, and the scythe association with 'death the reaper' that morr has doesn't overrule that.
Celestial? Nah- nothing about the sky ties to swords.
Jades? Also no: swords are antithetical to growth and farming, you need to beat them into plowshares first.
Hysh? Lol no. Closest I can come is Occam's razor, and even that is about finding truth rather than inflicting death.
So I think about half the winds could get a sword going if they tried, but not ulgu. If there were an association from the theft of a blade from demons by the first ulgu caster, I think we'd have seen it used before now.
- Location
- Oklahoma
While I'm not super interested in codifying our Shadow Dagger mastery, Regimand specifically called it out as something that would be useful and I'm inclined to believe him.
Also if we're intending to eventually do both, it might be easier to start with the FC spell and work our way up to the battle magic.
Also if we're intending to eventually do both, it might be easier to start with the FC spell and work our way up to the battle magic.