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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Prime 2.0 said:
I fail to see how capturing a prisoner of war, and going to the grey lords to produce a permanent holding cell is equivalent to taking someone who has done you or your polity no wrong and enslaving them.
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Binding a thinking being very much is enslaving. It's never a moral action. I don't want binding to even show up in Mathilde's thought processes because of how repugnant it is.
 
Andres said:
WFRP 4e: Monuments of the Reikland says he was the first person to get kicked out of a gambling house in every province of the Empire, so might've even been part of the Colleges.
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I think you said this earlier in the thread about Wyssan and his Dice. I haven't read the book itself, but is it Kadon or was it Wyssan who got kicked out?
 
Mopman43 said:
What exactly does the bit in Monuments say?
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Fuck, completely wrong wizard. It was Wyssan who got banned, not Kadon. Page 7:
These odd dice were carved in pairs by the fabled Wizard Wyssan, who was known both for his success at gambling and being the first person banned from gambling houses in every one of the Empire's Great Provinces.
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Both beast wizards so I got them mixed up.
 
Mopman43 said:
Kadon that made the Scrolls of Binding definitely existed long before the Colleges were founded.

There is definitely at least 2 different Kadons- the one that founded Mourkhain and was killed by Ushoran, and the one that made the Scrolls of Binding.

That 2nd Kadon may-or-may not be the same Kadon that the Transformation of Kadon is named for.

There might be other Kadons too, hell if I know, name seems pretty popular. Pretty sure Boney said that there's a Kadon that was an Amber Supreme Patriarch.
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Boney said:
Officially, he was defeated. Whether he let it be known through unofficial channels that he wasn't going to give his all to secure a third term is unknown to history, but the one that followed him up is Kadon, the guy that looked at the Warhammer setting and decided that he was gonna catch 'em all.
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Boney said:
The Colleges have something of a tradition for renaming oneself in that way, like Gehenna did. But there are rumours that the Amber Brotherhood Kadon was the actual historical Kadon, and that he's still around somewhere.
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Boney said:
And that a Kadon created the Scrolls of Binding. And considering that some of those Scrolls can work on Daemons, Chaos beasts, Vampires, and Tomb Kings, some theorize that there might be a connection between the Amber Kadon and the Kadon that was founder of Mourkhain and wearer of the Crown of Sorcery.
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There was a Supreme patriarch named Kadon that might have been the ancient Kadon that made the scrolls or he might just very talented mage that renamed himself.
 
I mean if the guy managed to wear the Crown of Sorcery and come out sane I would love to meet him... we can compare notes on necromantic artifacts and lore :V

On a more serious note I wonder when did Katarin the Bloody break with the Sisterhood? If it was late enough she might have some obscure books from their vaults, which might in urn have passed to Kislev with her death.
 
DragonParadox said:
On a more serious note I wonder when did Katarin the Bloody break with the Sisterhood?
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At least if we're going strictly by Night's Dark Masters, her 'grand-sire' was Lady d'Acques of Bretonnia, who pretty much entirely ignored the rules and standards the Lahmians had in place. Among her 'children' was Chandagnac, who sired Genevieve.

(So if we're going by that, Kattarin the Bloody and Genevieve are sorta-kinda cousins)

(Also, Boney has said that Genevieve's whole thing isn't quest-canon)

So I'm not sure that she was ever really with the Sisterhood to begin with. And there's a passage in NDM saying that the Sisterhood didn't give her any support because Neferata wanted to wait longer before openly ruling humans.

DragonParadox said:
I mean if he came out of it sane enough to lead the Amber College for a time that seems close enough for government work... literally.
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3500 years later?
 
13th Bee said:
Binding a thinking being very much is enslaving. It's never a moral action. I don't want binding to even show up in Mathilde's thought processes because of how repugnant it is.
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Is Wolf our slave?

because this is a less significant bond than the one we have to wolf, who has shown himself to be capable of speech and greater intelligence.
 
13th Bee said:
Binding a thinking being very much is enslaving. It's never a moral action. I don't want binding to even show up in Mathilde's thought processes because of how repugnant it is.
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By what measure? We imprison her, go to the Eonir ASAP, and have the grey lords imprison her somewhere else without issuing a single command. Boney has outright confirmed that they can do this.

I suppose you could say that technically someone is a slave if you're coercing them to come with you to a prison, you are indeed forcing action from them against their will, but that says more about arrest and imprisonment than it does about slavery. The mechanism of coersion does not meaningfully change the end result when that mechanism is lifted as part of that result.
 
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13th Bee said:
Binding a thinking being very much is enslaving. It's never a moral action. I don't want binding to even show up in Mathilde's thought processes because of how repugnant it is.
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So we should abandon apparition binding?
Because they are basicly non chaos aligned daemons, and daemons are thinking beings.
It's not an unreasonable stance, but i suspect there will be some pushback at that interpretation.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Night_stalker on Mar 6, 2022 at 1:14 PM, finished with 869 posts and 214 votes.
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Night_stalker said:
Adhoc vote count started by Night_stalker on Mar 6, 2022 at 1:14 PM, finished with 869 posts and 214 votes.
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Almost a 2-to-in lead for the flask over #2. Impressive, I think it's time to burn something.

Drycha's in for a hell of a surprise (as is everyone else) as the shadow mage suddenly (and temporarily) turns into a fire mage... I wonder if we'll get any comments on it?
 
If the invisibility holds through the dragonflask, which I doubt it will, then I really want Mathilde to walk off the battlefield and come back asking if anyone saw trace of an invisible dragon.
 
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Codex said:
Wolf is a consensual bond. We bonded with him, we didn't bind him. Also, Wolf only managed that intelligence after becoming a Familiar, not before.
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Yeah, my point here is that Binding is not always enslaving.

We bound Wolf and didn't enslave him. So while the context is different I think the "all binding is enslaving" argument is flawed in its basic premise.
I was attempting to come at it from an angle other than the point of, "throwing a net on someone isn't enslaving them, its just trying to capture them"
 
FlyingScanian said:
Almost a 2-to-in lead for the flask over #2. Impressive, I think it's time to burn something.

Drycha's in for a hell of a surprise (as is everyone else) as the shadow mage suddenly (and temporarily) turns into a fire mage... I wonder if we'll get any comments on it?
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Worse, the invisible shadow mage suddenly becomes a fire mage. On a battlefield where previously all of the mages were either ice or ghyran. Just a giant ball of fire out of nowhere.
 
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