Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Late twenties - early thirties, I believe. There was an answer from BoneyM way back, but I can't be bothered to find it.
No7sHere said:
Lets ask. @BoneyM just how young are we to become a Magister and will it gain us any additional prestige?
A six-year journeymanship is faster than usual, but not abnormally so. Your age of becoming a journeyman was, in absolute terms, earlier than most, but in terms of total time spent as an apprentice about average.
I tweaked it. Most wizards sprout magic in their late teens, some as late as their early twenties. Mathilde started at ten. Judging by the length of her apprenticeship rather than the actual age it ended at, she's above average but not a record-breaker. The alternative was a twenty-year apprenticeship which is just silly.
Yeah sure, which is why speaking of the Dawi Zharr is a major taboo that any outsider will be considered shamed for. And even if the Dwarfs do openly acknowledge the Dawi Zharr as the huge source of shame and grudges it is- by refusing to tell them about the origins of Black Orcs we are preventing the Dwarfs from acknowledging a grudge, that they have been wronged.

We'd be essentially aiding and abetting the commitance of a grudge. If it ever comes out it would be a huge betrayal of trust.
Now that is making a mountain out of a molehill, which says a lot considering how paranoid we can get.
 
I can't help but think that Dwarfs view humans like humans would view friendly Greenskins.
They constantly splinter and infight, they make up for their shoddy tools with enthusiasm, they're disturbingly willing to break their word, and there are a lot of them.
 
[x] Remain silent.
[edit for reasoning] We seem to have gotten away with the cover up, and our story was somewhat plausible, stirring things up now is pointless.

[x] Join the hunting with Sigwald Kriegersen
[x] Join the hunting with Ruprecht Wulfhart

[x] Cook with Panoramia and Titus

[x] Sparring
[x] Telling war stories
[x] Gambling
[x] Play with a giant wolf
[x] Play with a demigryph

[x] Help move the Karag Nar hoard

[x] Yes to Shenanigans
 
Last edited:
Are you forgetting the Lack or spite towards Mathilde so far? While yes, his mere presence makes the Winds of Magic cry in the corner in fear, and he is indeed the most curmudgeon of curmudgeons, he isn't utterly insane.

He's a Dwarf. And the only things he really respects are the glories of the past. And the screaming deaths of every race he hates, but that's normal for dwarves as old as him.

Telling him that the Dawn-Zharr are responsible for the creation of the Black Orks might just earn an entire new Grudge written in the Damaz Kron. And how by our actions we literally Stole power from both Mork and Gork, and gave it to our own god because it was the only method we believed wouldn't end up destroying the mountain And letting us survive the process.

We struck a blow against the gods of one of the most hated races of all Dawn kind. The very Gods.

And if we tell this to Kragg and Belegar in confidence, we may get see that most impossible of things.

A genuine Smile on the face of Kragg the Grim.
We, with no practical understanding or experience of divine matters, let ourselves get used as a puppet for the work of a Greenskin god then decided to ignore our training and do something we had no experience or understanding of. You think ultra-conservative Kragg is gonna smile at that? For a "blow" that is more likely than not to fade in a short time?
 
[X] Being maudlin

is it weird that I like that idea that Mathilde is one of those awful, nightmare drunks?



or even better, she keeps on cycleing through them all.
 
I like this. @BoneyM am I right in picking up that this is a term of real respect, particularly coming from a sitting King in his power?
A plain, unvarnished title of Master, not qualified as Mhornokri or as mastery any of the other weird shoddy manling arts or pale imitations of good Dawi craft.
Just Master, as he would address a respected Dawi Master Engineer.
I have been finding it difficult to even begin to tally the number of Dawi lives your interventions have saved.
We like you too, Belegar.
 
[X] Tell Belegar and Kragg.

[X] Join the hunting with Esbern and Seija
[X] Cook with Panoramia and Titus

[X] Drinking
[X] Gambling
[X] Play with a giant wolf

[X] Yes to Shenanigans
 
I like this. @BoneyM am I right in picking up that this is a term of real respect, particularly coming from a sitting King in his power?
A plain, unvarnished title of Master, not qualified as Mhornokri or as mastery any of the other weird shoddy manling arts or pale imitations of good Dawi craft.
Just Master, as he would address a respected Dawi Master Engineer.

We like you too, Belegar.
Boney already said that Dwarves have respect for the rank and experience of "master', hence why he looked at us with respect when Ulthar clarified that "magister" is a "master" back when we first met.
 
We, with no practical understanding or experience of divine matters, let ourselves get used as a puppet for the work of a Greenskin god then decided to ignore our training and do something we had no experience or understanding of. You think ultra-conservative Kragg is gonna smile at that? For a "blow" that is more likely than not to fade in a short time?

You forget that we're human. By definition, Kragg thinks it's amazing we were smart enough to even survive before Sigmar saved the High King all those years ago, and earned the secrets of forging and metallurgy and science that Dearves seemed permissible to give to the youngling race.

So any idiocy we get up to is entirely within the norm. That we Succeeded at such, is already amazing.

And what does Kragg care about Umgi gods? Sigmar was a man, and him being worshipped is humans apeing Ancestor worship. All the other gods are barely worth Kragg's notice.

Thinking he's going to explode at us for doing something foolhardy and succeeding is like thinking a dog could understand consequences more than a few minutes in advance. A very Stupid dog that regularly needs to be reminded how to take care of itself, but a dog none the less.

You seem obsessed with the idea Kragg will blow up at us for doing something so utterly reckless and foolish.

We are a Wizard. Our very existence is reckless and foolish, there is nothing we can do short of fall to chaos that won't make us more radical in Kragg's eyes.
 
Boney already said that Dwarves have respect for the rank and experience of "master', hence why he looked at us with respect when Ulthar clarified that "magister" is a "master" back when we first met.
Yeah, I know that, and went back to that post where we were introduced to look, too.

My point is wondering whether what you are master of is also of significance. And in plainly calling us Master Weber, rather than 'Master Mhornokri' or something, is that showing Belegars newfound respect both for our craft, and the skill with which we wield it?
 
Now that is making a mountain out of a molehill, which says a lot considering how paranoid we can get.
We have knowledge of a significant wrong doing being committed against the entirety of the Karak Ankor. By refusing to divulge the origin of said wrongdoing we refuse the right for the Dwarfs to know the perpetrators.

This would be an egregious breach of trust for any human nation that hated Greenskins as much as the Dwarfs do. Let alone the people with a pathological need to get even for being wronged.
We, with no practical understanding or experience of divine matters, let ourselves get used as a puppet for the work of a Greenskin god then decided to ignore our training and do something we had no experience or understanding of. You think ultra-conservative Kragg is gonna smile at that? For a "blow" that is more likely than not to fade in a short time?
Then man up and take our fucking lumps. If Kragg disapproves of us for our actions, that's on him.
I'm not sure how or even if that grudge would apply. The creation of free willed black orcs was an accident, as was their release, and the chaos dwarves were victims of a greater powers plots anyway.
Yes, because that's how the Dwarfs are going to see the creation of the Black Orcs that have led to no end of trouble for them. This is going to sound absurd, but you are letting an objective interpretation get in the way of the cultural biases and predispositions we're working with here. Even if the Black Orcs were a mistake and the Chaos Dwarfs have suitably suffered for it- the Dwarfs are going to be fucking pissed about it.
  1. Whether or not they talk about the Chaos dwarfs with outsiders makes the dwarfs no more capable to mark an army into the Dark Lands
  2. How on earth could it come out that we had a vision from a greenskin god. The means by which we got that information is practically inconceivable so unless the dwarfs have a spy in the Grey College the information simply has no way to get back to them.
There's a difference between adding an oath and bringing someone up on the shit list of hated enemies and advocating an impossible campaign into the Dark Lands. Never once have I actually advocated going after the Chaos Dwarfs so much as getting the Dwarfs to open up and acknowledge it's a source of their woes. Eh, it's not likely to ever get out- but that doesn't change the fact it would definitely be appreciated by them and has absolutely minimal costs to ourselves.

Kragg is piecing things together, Belegar trusts us and is an unconventional Dwarf to say the least. Saying 'I got temporarily compromised and turned that around to fucking cut off the finger Mork was using to puppet me'- is not the end of world to say to these two. Meanwhile 'I learned pertinent information the Dwarfs deserve to know' is something they're liable to appreciate, especially with the fact we're giving it with the expectation of disapproval rather than reward.
 
What's particularly frustrating is that it's very unclear what benefit people think telling Belegar and Kragg that Mathilde can be used as a glove puppet by an evil god in an unknown but most certainly not empty set of circumstances will have?

Them knowing that the Chaos Dwarves created the Black Orcs is bad for them, as it hits right in one of the weakness of dwarf psychology that makes thema declining race. We want to reduce the number of grudges compelling the dwarves into commiting individual and species suicide, not give them another set that will risk compelling them to spend vast amounts of blood and treasury fighting yet another enemy they can never defeat.

Kragg is piecing things together, Belegar trusts us and is an unconventional Dwarf to say the least. Saying 'I got temporarily compromised and turned that around to fucking cut off the finger Mork was using to puppet me'- is not the end of world to say to these two. Meanwhile 'I learned pertinent information the Dwarfs deserve to know' is something they're liable to appreciate, especially with the fact we're giving it with the expectation of disapproval rather than reward.

There's zero evidence I can see of Kragg piercing anything whatsoever together. He knows Mathilde did something. He doesn't know what. We saw his perspective when she helped Ranald rob Mork blind..

Telling Kragg the Grim that Mathilde and potentially other Magisters can be used as glove puppets by evil gods in circumstances that we are unable to explain the limits of may not literally be the end of the world, but it does mean that it would be sensible for the dwarves never to trust or work closely with a Magister again, as they'll never know if and when an evil god might suddenly assume direct control of the Magister with disastrous results for the dwarves. It also means that the Empire as a whole is potentially compromised as one of its most powerful institutions is a giant disaster in the making. It makes Magisters look like superstitious people's worst fears of them. This is also the type of thing that the dwarves might feel compelled to share with their very long term allies in the Cult of Sigmar, which is it's own flavour of disaster, as they'd use it to seriously beat up the Colleges. And that would at the least then come back on Mathilde.

This wouldn't just be a disaster for Mathilde, it would be a disaster for the Empire and for Karaz Ankor.

You're risking an appalling bad result, and for pretty much no upside whatsoever. You never talk about being possessed by an evil god in Warhammer unless you know for absolute certain that the people you tell are strongly incentivised to hear it the right way and keep it secret. Even the Grey College might not be appropriate to tell.

Also, remember that Mathilde has a pretty shit Diplomacy score, so could easily flunk a roll on this.
 
Last edited:
I'm seeing several people voting foe it with the expectation of reward.
The voters are one thing, Mathilde is another. Would she be telling this news to two people she respects? One who has been good to her, the other disapproving? When she got cast out of her last position of power for being a Wizard?

Yeah, I'm going to consider what some voters expect entirely irrelevant to Mathilde's motivations here given how established events lead into this one. If she's telling them it's because she believes they deserve to know, and presumably she will make that evident.
 
Belegar and Kragg needs to know.

- They deserve to know.
- If can have strategic implication. I.e.: Mork encouraging greenskins to concentrate on K8P.
- Kragg already knows more than he says.
- Belgar is leader of the expedition that Mathilde is part of.
- We are Wizard, we don't tell people shit.
- We are Grey Order, we don't tell people shit.
- We are Cult of Ranald, we don't tell people shit.
-We are Mathilde, we don't tell people shit, even the guy we kind of love'd had to work for years to get anything from us, and we never actually said it.

Like seriously people, the SV love for Dwarfs has really made us forget what we are all about.

We don't say shit.

[X] Remain silent.
 
The possible gains of telling them are far outweighed by the possible losses.

Telling them that we, and by extension other wizards, can be used as conduits and puppets of gods of hated enemies is not good in any way.
 
There's zero evidence I can see of Kragg piercing anything whatsoever together.

Telling Kragg the Grim that Mathilde and potentially other Magisters can be used as glove puppets by evil gods in circumstances that we are unable to explain the limits of may not literally be the end of the world, but it does mean that it would be sensible for the dwarves never to trust or work closely with a Magister again, as they'll never know if and when an evil god might suddenly assume direct control of the Magister with disastrous results for the dwarves. It also means that the Empire as a whole is potentially compromised as one of its most powerful institutions is a giant disaster in the making.

This wouldn't just be a disaster for Mathilde, it would be a disaster for the Empire and for Karaz Ankor.

You're risking an appalling bad result, and for pretty much no upside whatsoever.
This is fear mongering of the highest order.

Kragg knew something of the circumstance all this shit went down under and acknowledged that Mork had a direct hand in things because this was essentially a super heretical and blasphemous act being committed in a Greenskin holy place. The circumstances are largely explicable and knowable. Worst case- fuck up the heretical idol conventionally rather than sending a wizard to do it now that they know better.

And while yes, it puppeted Mathilde, Mathilde also demonstrates what can happen when a god wrongly lays it's fingers on an Imperial Magister's soul. The fact that Mathilde not only handled said possession
- We are Wizard, we don't tell people shit.
- We are Grey Order, we don't tell people shit.
- We are Cult of Ranald, we don't tell people shit.
-We are Mathilde, we don't tell people shit, even the guy we kind of love'd had to work for years to get anything from us, and we never actually said it.
See, in some circumstances, that makes sense- in others, hey, maybe the best way of getting people who tend to dislike wizards is to not treat the wizard's stereotypes as axiomatic laws to be adhered to regardless of circumstance.
with aplomb, but managed to turn it against a god speaks not only in her favor but of Imperial Wizards.
 
[X] Remain silent.

[X] Join the hunting with Codrin
[X] Cook with Panoramia and Titus

[X] Telling war stories
[X] Gambling
[X] Sparring

[X] Yes to Shenanigans
 
Back
Top