Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
Mopman43 said:
For what it's worth, from a previous time this conversation came up





How exactly do you put together a book list like that when we have no contacts in Cathay whatsoever, and no way to check for what we're getting until it's back here, on the other side of the continent?

Yes, Belegar is putting forward exorbitant sums of money for this, but I think it's probably more worthwhile to look closer to home, first. We'll certainly be getting more for a given amount of money.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There are advantages to looking closer to home certainly, but unless I am much mistaken that conversation was before the Library was actually in the cards. With it existing now there is one other advantage of going for exotic books, it is going to make other institutions of learning more willing to work with us. Where else are they going to get any sort of Cathayan books?

Even if they are not the best, even if they are not complete, even if some of the information in them is known, the sheer rarity means they they are worth quite a lot to many institutions and K8P is really one of the best placed libraries to actually get their hands on such books as it is literally on the road to Cathay.
 
If we really, really, wanted to get books from Cathay, we would be better off heading to Marienburg and talking to the Elf town merchants.

Much higher chance of someone that speaks both languages, does that trip every 10 years, and is educated enough to do the job.

then we just have to deal with A) The cold war going on B) getting a high elf to agree, C) 'paying for the hundreds of kilos of silks and spices you'd be displacing for your literary ambitions every time you roll those dice.'
 
Last edited:
I wonder who Kislev's scholars answer to. I mean yeah we can do the standard thing and just ask the throne, but it would be nice to go to the source, we would get more out of that. I recall there was some kind of library and center of learning in the capital, but a quck wiki search is not enough to find it and it is too late for me to crack realms of the Ice Queen

Regardless, assuming we win the battle one of the most immediate uses we can get out of good relations with Kislev is access to some of their non-magical lore. Soon enough we will have proper scribes to translate all that lore.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
one point: in this kind of setting, you would have to be very, very wealthy so be a book collector, the dam things are worth more than some poor villagers make in a lifetime.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's a fair point—to be a book collector you do need a source of wealth. To be honest, I was more thinking of Altdorf university professors when I said "eccentric scholar". I doubt they get paid a lot, and are dependent upon university and library resources for much of their research.
 
DragonParadox said:
I recall there was some kind of library and center of learning in the capital, but a quck wiki search is not enough to find it and it is too late for me to crack realms of the Ice Queen
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Realm of the Ice Queen has:
-Raskolnikov's, basically a tavern that every prominent scholar in Kislev City goes to and debates with his fellows at; probably doesn't exist yet.
-The Temple of Verena, which is stated to have a library "second only to that of Bokha Palace" in Kislev; hard to say if that would be the case yet.
-The Writer's Room, founded by Tzar Alexandr to provide communication between people living in Kislev City and their families in the Kislev steppe; stated to have "an extensive library of correspondence that is second to none in its descriptions of the customs, history, superstitions, and legends of the steppe people"; the institution would exist (I don't know when Alexandr ruled, but it's definitely in the past) but it's probably less prominent at the moment.

Most or all of those are probably located in the Learned Quarter, the Grackiziema, where most of the "literary types, lawyers, and scribes" in the city are.

Again, standard disclaimer that the situation right now could be very different- Kislev before Boris and Katarin and Kislev after Boris and Katarin are two different Kislevs.
 
Mopman43 said:
-The Writer's Room, founded by Tzar Alexandr to provide communication between people living in Kislev City and their families in the Kislev steppe; stated to have "an extensive library of correspondence that is second to none in its descriptions of the customs, history, superstitions, and legends of the steppe people"; the institution would exist (I don't know when Alexandr ruled, but it's definitely in the past) but it's probably less prominent at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

According to the Wiki, Tzar Alexandr Njevski ruled in 1602 IC, roughly 900 years ago. He's highly regarded as one of the greatest and noblest Tsars of Kislev, who cared about the plight of the common man. One of his notable achievements was an alliance with Emperor Dieter III.

Dieter III's most notable act was the "missing ear tax", which resulted in a riot.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
According to the Wiki, Tzar Alexandr Njevski ruled in 1602 IC, roughly 900 years ago. He's highly regarded as one of the greatest and noblest Tsars of Kislev, who cared about the plight of the common man. One of his notable achievements was an alliance with Emperor Dieter III.

Dieter III's most notable act was the "missing ear tax", which resulted in a riot.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, that's all from Claws of the Great Bear, so I reflexively dislike it.

Tzar Alexandr only comes up twice in RotIQ- once when talking about the Writer's Room, once in a list of Kislev's great heroes that have portraits in the Gallery of Heroes*.



*And also seems to mean Shoika when it says Anastasia in a passage pulled straight from the novel Ursun's Teeth and I'd really wish for Warhammer to at least maintain consistency within a given book
 
Tasoli said:
Once Spider silk gets going this will not be a concern I think. It will just be spices and whaver other luxries but probably not silk.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Played right, we could actually get a significant jump on this shift with the fortune seekers starting on their way, and cynically farm favor from the people who were intending to get rich on the market we're in the process of wrecking. We also kind of have a significant interest in the bottom not dropping out of the caravan trade because Cathayan silk became obsolete comparatively overnight.


Presumably most merchants don't go all in on the silk in the first place just in case Ulthuan drops a trade fleet full of spider silk on Marienburg the month before they make it back though, so eh.
 
So I was looking up Kattarin the Bloody after the topic of the Tzar's ancestry was brought up, and I found this interesting tidbit:

WHFB Lexicanum said:
Vampires of her bloodline, the Kalashinivik family can be found in Praag and consider themselves true heirs to the throne of Kislev.
  • Realm of the Ice Queen, Cities of Kislev, pg. 75
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
Boyar Kalashinivik - the Boyar of here in Resvynhaf and of the Shirokij villages - is said to be visiting Praag,"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... I think this might explain why Athel Loren is targeting him, he's secretly a Lahmian that got on their radar. The Tzar arriving before the Boyar did might have been a good thing, in light of this context. Exposing Kalashinivik as Kattarin's hidden legacy would go a long way to earning the Tzar Vladimir's goodwill considering how much he loathes vampires.

[x] Witch Council
 
consequences said:
Played right, we could actually get a significant jump on this shift with the fortune seekers starting on their way, and cynically farm favor from the people who were intending to get rich on the market we're in the process of wrecking. We also kind of have a significant interest in the bottom not dropping out of the caravan trade because Cathayan silk became obsolete comparatively overnight.


Presumably most merchants don't go all in on the silk in the first place just in case Ulthuan drops a trade fleet full of spider silk on Marienburg the month before they make it back though, so eh.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
… kind of wonder how many Cathay silk farmers villages we have accidentally fucked with that move.

They are going to be making silk with the assumption that Caravans are coming every so often onto the markets. They are going to be overloading the market with silk.

And what's even worse is that it won't be obvious, there are plenty of years where no one made it over the Silk Road, that's fine, and sometimes the westerners don't buy silk, because sometimes spices and gems are just more In demand, that fine too, silk lasts, it will sell at some point over the next few years. So they keep making it not just for the domestic market, but the global.

But it just doesn't sell, the westerners just keep going for the gems and spices. And the value of silk drops.

And then one of their own caravans make it back and they find out it's because the west has a closer source now and Cathay just lost a premium market…

I can say through my Cathay campaign, if there was a mechanic where a faction could mess with my caravan profit I would March an army across the mortal empires map without a though.

I don't think it's going to be that, but I bet the jade dragon is going to be right pissed when he sees the expected loss in gold over the next hundred years…
 
Last edited:
Resonant said:
So I was looking up Kattarin the Bloody after the topic of the Tzar's ancestry was brought up, and I found this interesting tidbit:



... I think this might explain why Athel Loren is targeting him, he's secretly a Lahmian that got on their radar. The Tzar arriving before the Boyar did might have been a good thing, in light of this context. Exposing Kalashinivik as Kattarin's hidden legacy would go a long way to earning the Tzar Vladimir's goodwill considering how much he loathes vampires.

[x] Witch Council
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The thing is, what could a vampire in Kislev do to enrage athel Loren enough to bring a war host. Or why drycha specifically wants him. I don't see a reasonable answer to that...
 
Andres said:
The dev diary doesn't mention an Old Rambler at all. Says her parents sent Sienna away before their neighbours could try anything, that she made it to Altdorf with a merchant caravan, and that she was quickly admitted to the Bright Order once there, where she quickly mastered the Lore of Fire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That doesn't make any sense. Old Rambler was a part of Sienna's backstory in the games:

�
B: Never hear you speak much about your first tutor, Zharrinn.
S: Old Rambler, you mean? He didn't teach me much. Wanted a shadow-apprentice, but I had talent only for the blaze.
B: Oho? What happened to him?
S: Don't know, don't care. He learnt a valuable lesson about hitting young girls with the butt of his staff. I'm fond of that memory.

In Castle Drachenfels, the mysterious voice that probes all the characters specifically tells Sienna this:

"You remember Rambler? He helped you harness your gift, and you burned him alive for it."

It's incredibly weird to me that this "developer diary" would erase such a significant part of Sienna's backstory that Drachenfels would be probing her with it alognside her own twin sister Sofia. That alone makes me question the validity of that source.
Aranfan said:
HISSSSSS

Speak not that accursed name woman!

Edit: This came out a lot more hostile than I intended. I apologize, I was trying to comically overreact to the mention of End Times. Which, to be clear, is bad.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm incredibly easy to please. You call me a woman and I forget everything else you say because I'm pleased. Don't worry about it.
 
Last edited:
Codex said:
That doesn't make any sense. Old Rambler was a part of Sienna's backstory in the games:

�
B: Never hear you speak much about your first tutor, Zharrinn.
S: Old Rambler, you mean? He didn't teach me much. Wanted a shadow-apprentice, but I had talent only for the blaze.
B: Oho? What happened to him?
S: Don't know, don't care. He learnt a valuable lesson about hitting young girls with the butt of his staff. I'm fond of that memory.

In Castle Drachenfels, the mysterious voice that probes all the characters specifically tells Sienna this:

"You remember Rambler? He helped you harness your gift, and you burned him alive for it."

It's incredibly weird to me that this "developer diary" would erase such a significant part of Sienna's backstory that Drachenfels would be probing her with it alognside her own twin sister Sofia. That alone makes me question the validity of that source.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Might've been space limitations. Each of the Ubersreik Five only got about three paragraphs to work with.
 
Andres said:
Might've been space limitations. Each of the Ubersreik Five only got about three paragraphs to work with.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah, now I get it. The Ubersreik Five have incredibly in depth backstories built up over the course of two games and dozens of missions from pieces of dialogue and further fleshed out by dozens of Franz Lohner Chronicles. It's not exactly easy to summarise their stories in just three paragraphs, even if it's just their backstory.

For example, I doubt they mentioned Markus Kruber's Middenball Championship title or his rivalry with Karl Franz over hats.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
kind of wonder how many Cathay silk farmers villages we have accidentally fucked with that move.

They are going to be making silk with the assumption that Caravans are coming every so often onto the markets. They are going to be overloading the market with silk.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Genuinely figure probably 90% of silk is still for the domestic market, so probably, basically none.
 
WhiteNights said:
I haven't played the games, and I need to know - is it a one sided rivalry? Or two?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mostly one sided:
B: Didn't you take an oath to the emperor? Won't he be a bit, you know, peeved?
M: Only thing the Empire breeds faster than lice is deserters. And it's not like old Karl Franz knows me. One among thousands, I am. Though he might remember my hat. He likes hats.
B: Yes, but what about the folk beneath him?
M: What, Helborg and that lot? That sort only notice common soldiers when they kill them in a drunken rage.
B: Aye, well, we've all done that.

V: Bogenhafen has ever been a center of trade. It is said that more gold passes through these warehouses than the Altdorf treasury.
M: Not surprising. I mean a like Karl Franz, he seems a fair man, with a nice taste in hats. But he's a penny-pincher.
V: Kruber, still your treacherous tongue!
M: I'm just saying if we all had fancy magic swords like his, we'd sort these Northlanders out in no time. But then, he'd have fewer hats, wouldn't he?

You might be a bit confused over Markus' distate over Franz here, so let me explain this to you because it's actually detailed in the description of a particular hat in Franz Lohner's shop. Basically, when Markus Kruber was in the military, he had a superior who told him that if he died, his hat would belong to Kruber, because his superior liked him so much. Except when that superior did die, the hat was gone and Kruber saw Karl Franz wearing it. Ever since, Kruber has formed a grudge against Karl Franz for taking his rightfully promised hat. Sometime later, that particular hat disappeared from the Emperor's vaults and was found in Kruber's posession. Clearly, he hasn't stolen it, right?

The hat lore is deep, particularly as it is consistently referenced in Franz Lohner's chronicles.
 
Tobtorp said:
The thing is, what could a vampire in Kislev do to enrage athel Loren enough to bring a war host. Or why drycha specifically wants him. I don't see a reasonable answer to that...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He could have killed a particularly old and powerful spirit who was her ally. It is worth keeping in mind that back in the old days, which Drycha very much it was all spirits around here, a squirrel could jump from branch to branch from Musilion to the the Sea of Claws without once touching the ground. As to what reason a vampire would have for killing an elder fey, that is harder to guess, vampires are rather idiosyncratic.

Maybe he wanted to feed, curious as to what fey souls tasted like, maybe he was doing magical experiments that tainted the land etc..

We should probably not count on the wiki too much since the GM has every reason to change things so as to prevent us meta-gaming. For all we know the Boyar is 100% human and only some of his kin were turned. Even the fact that the fey are after the Boyar specifically is a guess, a pretty decent guess by someone with high intrigue and martial skill, but we should not treat it as rock solid fact.

At the end of the day what we are dealing with here is a fey incursion, once we deal with that, if we deal with that and do not lose then we can see about the Boyar.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top