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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Codex said:
The only explanation you provided that doesn't fit keeping things distant and close at the same time is minitarisation. Alternate dimensions is incredibly similar to the concept of keeping things close (accessible to you) while keeping them distant (in another dimension). The exact same can be said of summoning/teleportation. I don't see how what you're proposing is any different to the presented theory, other than the miniturisation, but that seems like the least likely part to me.
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I was pointing out that Algard specifically does alternate dimensions, and that was only one explanation for the Folding Fortress, not arguing that that the close/distant thing was inherently wrong.

Also, you could argue that magical miniaturisation is a perspective trick, keeping something 'distant' and therefore small, but also close and therefore on you. Like looking at something nearby through the wrong end of a telescope.
 
Boney said:
Oh, you mean gambesons as an underlayer? I'm talking specifically about gambesons as standalone armour.
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I realize this is hoisting from a few pages back, but have you ever heard of jack-and-chains? It was a super-minimized collar-shoulders-elbows set of plates connected down the arms by flat chains, worn over a gambeson. I only heard of it a few months ago, but apparently it is extremely effective as armor, only putting metal where blows could otherwise cut through cloth.

Apparently very common as cheap merc armor.

 
DragonParadox said:
@Boney I was just thinking about Kislev and it occurred to me that we are not going to see how the Hag witches fit into the armies of Kislev, since they are in the besieged villages, if they are even alive. I mean the Ice witches are generally part of the noble class or at the very least concerned with supporting the nobility so they are dotted around centers of power primarily Kislev itself, but what about the Hags which seem more concerned with the Ungol underclass? Do they fight with the armies of Kislev outside of protecting their homes or are they more like the Hedgewise, only not illegal? As far as Mathilde knows are there even battle magic capable hags or to they deal more with local matters and leave the mass destruction to their gospodar peers?

I realize Mathilde might know much of this, but I am curious and seeing as it is unlikely these questions will be answered in the battle proper I though I'd ask.
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Hag Witch magic is dependent on spirits, so most of them are severely weakened if they leave the lands they're familiar with and have to start from scratch wherever they find themselves. Only the most powerful of them can command or cajole spirits to ride shotgun with them. So a Hag Witch might show up to and dominate a battlefield that's on her doorstep, but they don't neatly fit into military doctrine in the same way most magic users can be made to.

Glau said:
I realize this is hoisting from a few pages back, but have you ever heard of jack-and-chains? It was a super-minimized collar-shoulders-elbows set of plates connected down the arms by flat chains, worn over a gambeson. I only heard of it a few months ago, but apparently it is extremely effective as armor, only putting metal where blows could otherwise cut through cloth.

Apparently very common as cheap merc armor.
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I hadn't, and it's interesting. I'm a little suspicious that apart from a single painting it seems that most of the sources attesting to how super common and effective they were are ones that can sell you a reproduction of them, but I suppose it wouldn't be that surprising for historical sources to have ignored cheap but effective armour for the lower classes in favour of the flashy and expensive stuff worn by nobles. It also seems like it might be related to splint armour.
 
Boney said:
I hadn't, and it's interesting. I'm a little suspicious that apart from a single painting it seems that most of the sources attesting to how super common and effective they were are ones that can sell you a reproduction of them, but I suppose it wouldn't be that surprising for historical sources to have ignored cheap but effective armour for the lower classes in favour of the flashy and expensive stuff worn by nobles. It also seems like it might be related to splint armour.
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I have my doubts. By and large the single most important place to protect with armor would be the head, and peasants would wear a helmet even if they couldn't get any other piece of armor. Following that they would protect the vital organs, i.e. a breastplate. Your extremities aren't as important - sure, nobody wants to lose a limb, but it's better to live without an arm than to be...dead. Kind of like this famous image.

 
My thought is that if you have a shield and a helmet in a line of others with shields, most of the cuts you are going to face are going to be from above aimed down, and the jack is well set up to catch those.

In other circumstances? I'd bet not so much.
 
Boney said:
Hag Witch magic is dependent on spirits, so most of them are severely weakened if they leave the lands they're familiar with and have to start from scratch wherever they find themselves. Only the most powerful of them can command or cajole spirits to ride shotgun with them. So a Hag Witch might show up to and dominate a battlefield that's on her doorstep, but they don't neatly fit into military doctrine in the same way most magic users can be made to.
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WE MUST PUT A HAG IN EVERY FORT! And apprentices, ofc.
 
Awetduck said:
KislevQuest is about to get weird.
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Now that you bring it up, I'm curious how a KislevQuest would be reacting to Mathilde's Mathilde-ing as all this is happening.
"Oh yeah, that Grey Wizard who just popped out of nowhere can get Boris to the fight in a fraction of the time with this one spell."
Quester A: "...is that allowed? Is that something Grey Wizards can just...do now?"
Quester B: "shhhh, let me enjoy pretending we didn't reject establishing a College after the Great War."
 
QuietlyObserving said:
Now that you bring it up, I'm curious how a KislevQuest would be reacting to Mathilde's Mathilde-ing as all this is happening.
"Oh yeah, that Grey Wizard who just popped out of nowhere can get Boris to the fight in a fraction of the time with this one spell."
Quester A: "...is that allowed? Is that something Grey Wizards can just...do now?"
Quester B: "shhhh, let me enjoy pretending we didn't reject establishing a College after the Great War."
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Quester C: Going all-in on Ice Magic made perfect sense! They're literally empowered by the Land! How were we supposed to know we'd get stuck with a Vampire Tzarina tanking their reputation?
 
Artemis1992 said:
I thought they diplo-failed to convince Teclis to build his College in Kislev, not that they didn't try?
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Nah, there was a bit of a paranoia vote, coupled with KislevQuest's longstanding female-only magic policies. It was argued that letting all these wizards train so close to the Chaos Wastes was more trouble than it was worth.
Much Salt was had when the No College vote narrowly won.
 
Everybody is talking about how the Boyar Kalashnikov might be a vampire or a Chaos Champion, but the worst scenario might be if he's the prophetised Evil Ice Mage presently rerouting the Waystones to the Fire Spire.

It would be ironic if the was a big nefarious ritual ongoing with the waystones, just not in the forest.
 
To an Elven perspective, the Empire looks like the smart bet in the Old World. It's a federation of related but distinct states from which a supreme ruler is elected, very much like Ulthuan. There's a fair few familiar faces among their pantheon and the unfamiliar ones are ones that they can jive with, as the Eonir currently are with Ulric. They show 'proper' respect to the Elder Races and there's both Eltharin and Khazalid roots in their language. All of their territory is grounds that Elves were once very familiar with. And magically they're both a blank slate and have existing resources, because their magical traditions are suppressed enough that you can start from scratch but not so suppressed to have been wiped out.

Contrast with Kislev: an absolute monarchy that emerged from the Chaos Wastes less than a millennia ago with their own completely alien set of Gods. There's still some lingering distrust of the Elder Races because prior to their arrival in the Old World they only knew the Chaos Dwarves. The only etymological roots identifiable by the Elves in Gospodarinyi are from Dark Tongue. And Erengrad and Kislev City are on the very fringe of what Elves were familiar with, meaning a good 80% of Kislev is off the edge of Elven maps. They have their own very strong magical traditions that are very likely to resist being subsumed by a new Elven one.

One thing that Kislev would have going for it is momentum, because at the time the Fire Spire was the heart of magical scholarship in the Old World. But then the Spire and most of its residents were obliterated when Praag fell.
 
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I increasing think we should loot the spire for forbidden magic knowledge. I also feel Randal would be up for us to do a heist, Mathilde 11 style.
 
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Caught back up.

I have to wonder whether it might not be the Ice Witch's fault at least partially, what with their prophecy about men wielding magic. Add in their connections to the Boyars and so on and I can see them sinking such an effort, and not with too much effort.
 
Nurgle said:
Ok we are going to need a unscrupulous wizard to die so Egrimm or willing to break into a wizard vault . We can probably get magic dad to watch our back for the inevitable betrayal.
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71. If I decide to test a lieutenant's loyalty and see if he/she should be made a trusted lieutenant, I will have a crack squad of marksmen standing by in case the answer is no.
 
QuietlyObserving said:
Now that you bring it up, I'm curious how a KislevQuest would be reacting to Mathilde's Mathilde-ing as all this is happening.
"Oh yeah, that Grey Wizard who just popped out of nowhere can get Boris to the fight in a fraction of the time with this one spell."
Quester A: "...is that allowed? Is that something Grey Wizards can just...do now?"
Quester B: "shhhh, let me enjoy pretending we didn't reject establishing a College after the Great War."
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We know that IceWitchQuest responds to Mathilde with panic.
 
Nurgle said:
I increasing think we should loot the spire for forbidden magic knowledge. I also feel Randal would be up for us to do a heist, Mathilde 11 style.
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It's in the middle of a city that probably attracts more mercenaries and unscrupulous sorts than anywhere else this side of Marienburg, owing to the Silk Road.

I'd be extremely doubtful that there's anything left to loot.
 
Mopman43 said:
It's in the middle of a city that probably attracts more mercenaries and unscrupulous sorts than anywhere else this side of Marienburg, owing to the Silk Road.

I'd be extremely doubtful that there's anything left to loot.
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See here is the bad thing everyone who has every tried to loot it has died or not come back. However Ice witches and Hags avoid it. We have also seen the flow of energy going to it, so we may have a advantage others have not had. Also Mathilde is the best mortal at wind sight in the old world.
 
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Codex said:
Also, this isn't super relevant to Fantasy, but I do enjoy that in Age of Sigmar, they explicitly decide to finally split Arcane and Divine magic into two categories. Now you have characters with the "Wizard" keyword who use Arcane Magic, and characters with the "Priest" keyword who use Divine magic. In terms of description, Priests don't cast spells or miscast, they chant prayers and suffer the wrath of their god. It's very nice and flavorful to finally have a clear demarcation and asign different roles to Arcane and Divine in the tabletop. There are a bunch more differences but they're not relevant here
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Not sure if it counts but in the game Mordheim: City of the Damned Magic is also divided into Arcane and Divine. Specifically Divine magic is used by the Sisters of Sigmar, Witch Hunters, and the Ulrican Warrior Priest Hero. While everyone else uses Arcane Magic.
 
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