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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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DragonParadox said:
I think it is worth keeping in mind what is at stake here and conversely what is not at stake:
  • Ice Witch aid with the Project
  • Keeping Kislev strong in the abstract
  • Favor with Boris
  • The lives of the forest dwelling people of the region
What is not at stake:
  • Chaos Invasion, the fact that the Dark Gods are spectating does not mean they have a horse in the race, it just means this is in some way remarkable
  • The actual stability of Kislev as a state, this is the farthest southern corner of that realm and a bunch of villages in the forest
So it is worth taking risks for this? I would say yes, this is warhammer, you would not get very far if you do not take risks and this is very much in line with the causes Mathilde has championed in the past. Is it worth taking the biggest risk on the table right from the word go? I would say no to that
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I agree with what you're saying, but I would like to point out that they are setting up a trap that Kislev is willingly diving into which would likely have the Tzar at the head. I think it's fair to say that the Tzar's life is on the line here.

It just so happens that I'm perfectly willing to have the Tzar die. It's probably callous of me, but I think I'd prefer Boris on the throne.
 
LightLan said:
The current votes will have Boris arrive before or at the same time as the Tzar.

We might just risk both. And succession crisis suck.
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Boris is much more sensible than the Tzar, and unlike his father, he will not be charging at the head of a cavalry contingent. An enemy warhost is far more likely to target the leader of an enemy warhost, not every single important looking person in the fight.

Boney has all but said that Boris is likely to take the sensible route and wait for the Tzar or the Boyar to come and let them take charge. He's not going to be at the head of this operation.
 
We could attempt to channel Ranald-disguised-as-Loec the Dancer.

Also, while I certainly don't wish anyone ill, interacting with Waystones is exhausting work that needs utmost focus. If the Tzar never backs down from a fight . . . nobody could blame us if we cut the layline after he tries to 1v1 Drycha . . .
 
I don't really think Athel Loren is prepared to face pretty significant force of Kislev falling on them like wrath of an angry god when they probably expected few rotas from locals. Not that Athel Loren itself wouldn't be able to handle it, but they don't exactly have home field advantage here and they don't have their full power here either.
 
pucflek said:
I don't really think Athel Loren is prepared to face pretty significant force of Kislev falling on them like wrath of an angry god when they probably expected few rotas from locals. Not that Athel Loren itself wouldn't be able to handle it, but they don't exactly have home field advantage here and they don't have their full power here either.
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They're still wood spirits in a wood that is already rather difficult to control. I'd say they have much less of a disadvantage than our side. They're also led by a millenia old spellcaster, so that's another advantage.

Asrai and Athel Loren's forces are masters of guérilla, and I doubt they will face us head on. It's already difficult to face guérilla forces in a forest when you're a regular army. Here, the guérilleros can disguise themselves as trees! This host definitely can gives us a run for our money.
 
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Lampshade said:
We could attempt to channel Ranald-disguised-as-Loec the Dancer.

Also, while I certainly don't wish anyone ill, interacting with Waystones is exhausting work that needs utmost focus. If the Tzar never backs down from a fight . . . nobody could blame us if we cut the layline after he tries to 1v1 Drycha . . .
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The thread is really easy to turn on someone as long as someone the thread likes in quest doesn't like them.

The current Tzar is not a great peace time king, but so far he hasn't done anything worth trying to kill him by angry tree.
 
NuclearConsensus said:
You know, I just realized something. This coming battle might well present an opportunity that some in the thread have theorized before: using Rite of Way to facilitate an unexpected cavalry attack. And it won't be just any cavalry, but Winged Hussars! Oh, if only we had Rider apparitions already, it would have been perfect!
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Actually speaking of riders, I wonder if Mathilde could create some very simple enchantments to cut through the Winds, cutting being fairly related to Ulgu as a concept, bang them on the side of theoretical bound riders, or her shadow steed, or just other cavalry, and simulate the Winged Lancers demoralising and vaguely anti-magic charge effect.

Actually isn't there that Mindrazor spell which does similar with blades, could that be a basis?

Now I'm thinking if we could make a load of independent shadowsteeds, stick blades on their sides and have a cavalry charge on demand battle magic spell. Maybe a bit much but fun thought.

I suppose the main problem is the scale at which Mathilde could make the enchantment and if the Lancers effect requires a certain critical mass before it's useful. Well that and if Mathilde has the right traits for creating the spell, but a focus on disrupting enemy cohesion and magic seems right up her ballpark, and she has experience with this sort of simple but mass applied magic in rite of way.
 
FallenPears said:
Actually speaking of riders, I wonder if Mathilde could create some very simple enchantments to cut through the Winds, cutting being fairly related to Ulgu as a concept, bang them on the side of theoretical bound riders, or her shadow steed, or just other cavalry, and simulate the Winged Lancers demoralising and vaguely anti-magic charge effect.

Actually isn't there that Mindrazor spell which does similar with blades, could that be a basis?

Now I'm thinking if we could make a load of independent shadowsteeds, stick blades on their sides and have a cavalry charge on demand battle magic spell. Maybe a bit much but fun thought.

I suppose the main problem is the scale at which Mathilde could make the enchantment and if the Lancers effect requires a certain critical mass before it's useful. Well that and if Mathilde has the right traits for creating the spell, but a focus on disrupting enemy cohesion and magic seems right up her ballpark, and she has experience with this sort of simple but mass applied magic in rite of way.
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I'm not saying no, but if the basis of the spell is Mindrazor, the most powerful battle magic spell in the colleges Arsenal until you get to Cataclysm level stuff. It's going to be at a level way above what we have tried before In difficultly and AP.

Is the effect with it?
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
The current Tzar is not a great peace time king, but so far he hasn't done anything worth trying to kill him by angry tree.
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We obviously aren't going to fully keikaku assassinate him. Maybe he does the sensible thing and has her kited and shot from afar. But if he rushes in, well, maybe he deserves what's coming so we take a while to double check our preparaion, and the symmetry might have a lot of symbolic value as a favour for the Widow.
 
pucflek said:
I don't really think Athel Loren is prepared to face pretty significant force of Kislev falling on them like wrath of an angry god when they probably expected few rotas from locals. Not that Athel Loren itself wouldn't be able to handle it, but they don't exactly have home field advantage here and they don't have their full power here either.
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They still have the usual game plan though, which is fight until they either accomplish their objective or the cost becomes too high and then fuck off through the world roots where the puny mortals can't follow. Whether Kislev's forces can stop them accomplishing their goal comes down a lot more to force composition and objectives than what they're expecting.

FallenPears said:
Actually speaking of riders, I wonder if Mathilde could create some very simple enchantments to cut through the Winds, cutting being fairly related to Ulgu as a concept, bang them on the side of theoretical bound riders, or her shadow steed, or just other cavalry, and simulate the Winged Lancers demoralising and vaguely anti-magic charge effect.

Actually isn't there that Mindrazor spell which does similar with blades, could that be a basis?

Now I'm thinking if we could make a load of independent shadowsteeds, stick blades on their sides and have a cavalry charge on demand battle magic spell. Maybe a bit much but fun thought.

I suppose the main problem is the scale at which Mathilde could make the enchantment and if the Lancers effect requires a certain critical mass before it's useful. Well that and if Mathilde has the right traits for creating the spell, but a focus on disrupting enemy cohesion and magic seems right up her ballpark, and she has experience with this sort of simple but mass applied magic in rite of way.
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Maybe she can, but it'd take more time than she has. 4 days is not long enough for spell crafting.

Jyn Ryvia said:
I'm not saying no, but if the basis of the spell is Mindrazor, the most powerful battle magic spell in the colleges Arsenal until you get to Cataclysm level stuff. It's going to be at a level way above what we have tried before In difficultly and AP.

Is the effect with it?
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Purple Sun of Xereus is the most powerful spell. Unless you're going with just the less powerful cast versions, in which case Okkam's is equalled by Dwellers Below.
 
I know I said I wouldn't mind if the Tzar died, but that doesn't mean I'd be willing to advocate to lower his chances for survival. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't take incredibly risky chances with Mathilde's life for the Tzar's life.

I'd still help him out if he's in trouble. Just, you know, I wouldn't go out scouting in a forest inhabited by murder trees to increase his chances of survival.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
I'm not saying no, but if the basis of the spell is Mindrazor, the most powerful battle magic spell in the colleges Arsenal until you get to Cataclysm level stuff. It's going to be at a level way above what we have tried before In difficultly and AP.

Is the effect with it?
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Well I was only talking about Mindrazor as the basis for the blueprint of the spell, after taking it apart, changing it and putting it back together it would be different, Rite of Way went through several iterations which acted differently iirc before we got the working one down. I imagine the 'blades' would be simpler and 'cheaper' than Mindrazor anyway.

As for if the effect is worth it the cost, yeah, that's the question. Depends on how easily we can scale the spell, and how well the charge effect translates and scales itself. Could be near impossible to reach critical mass, could be entirely practical.

If I were to speak from a meta perspective for a moment, it would probably depend on rolls in creation, assuming it turns out possible at all.

deathofrats0808 said:
Maybe she can, but it'd take more time than she has. 4 days is not long enough for spell crafting.
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Oh yeah, was definitely talking future, we've not even got any good targets to use it on atm. No bound riders and Kislev has the effect already.
 
There's also a difference between overcast and base casting cost. Enchantment costs are based off base cost, not overcast cost. Can overcast battle magic be put into enchantments? I assume so. The Dragon Herdstone thing we picked up was almost certainly not the base version, but it required interrupting a Beastmen ritual to consecrate a Herdstone to get it, so it's no mean feat.

In terms of effect, Okkam is absurdly powerful, but that was largely because of the way the mechanics worked. Give Okkams to High Elf Spearmen and they become ridiculous murderblenders. Giving it to a group of Clanrats isn't going to give you much mileage however. It kind of scales based off the target.
 
Sparsebeard said:
Flying with magic is amazing... until you get dispelled and plummet to the ground I guess.

If we want a flying mount, perhaps we could windherd a saddle with a celestial enchanter? Shadowhorse in the inside part of the saddle and wings on the outside so the different winds don't touch (if that's a problem).
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Can't we just enchant Shadowhorse with skaywalk? Single wind shadowhorse that can run in the air.

I mean Wings of heaven would probably go faster but skaywalk is an option. An while talking about skywalk it is the backup if she were to get dispelled in the air she can sky walk down a bit and then teleport to the ground once she stops downward acceleration.
 
Boney said:
Trying to cast a spell over and over and over again while you're smashing into solidified air every few meters like a cartoon character falling down a tree is much easier said than done.

...

Look, the problem with a flight enchantment is twofold. First, it's 100% a Celestial Wizard thing and 0% a Grey Wizard thing, which I think at least deserves a mention. Second, it puts 100% of the onus on me to thread the needle between capitalization and risk management. For all that you talk about how it would only be used for guaranteed no-risk activities, a significant amount of people who vote for it will be imagining Super-Mathilde flying over a battlefield. If Mathilde doesn't use it when the thread thinks she could have, I'll get pages of complaints. If she does use it and gets injured because it's inherently dangerous, I'll get pages of complaints. If I put it up to a vote each time, the pace of the thread will grind to a halt and, once more, I'll get pages of complaints. It puts me in a no-win situation.
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If you want to fly, time travel back to the second update and write in 'Celestial Wizard'.
 
Tasoli said:
Can't we just enchant Shadowhorse with skaywalk? Single wind shadowhorse that can run in the air.

I mean Wings of heaven would probably go faster but skaywalk is an option. An while talking about skywalk it is the backup if she were to get dispelled in the air she can sky walk down a bit and then teleport to the ground once she stops downward acceleration.
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  1. Skywalk is too weak to make more than short hops, we have been over this, it only works with Ulgu because it uses minuscule amounts of magic.
  2. I brought up the Smoke and Mirrors backup idea as well and the GM's reply was somewhere along the lines of 'sure you get a roll to cast fast enough to save yourself before you hit the ground and die'.
 
If you think that the forest is too dangerous for the Lord Magister of the Grey College to scout, then you're saying that it's unscoutable period.

Mathilde is very, very good at stealth, and at survival, and she has an entire country outside of the spooky forest to back off into. I'm not saying she should go 1v1 Drycha, or indeed go do any kind of assassination/sabotage at all. I'm saying that I think the risk to Mathilde's life is small enough, and the gains from piercing the information veil are high enough, that scouting is the most valuable thing we can provide right now.
 
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