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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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The Tsarevich Pavel Society, named after him, was created specifically to prevent such a thing from happening ever again at his authorisation. I don't think he would be that stupid to create a society that specifically sought out people like him. The first thing the people of Kislev would do is see if Pavel was a Vampire or not considering he's claiming to be Kattarin's son.
 
K von Carstein said:
The Handmaidens would still be ok in that case, like the dusk riders. You could add the knights riding wolfs, or do they exist already?
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The Wolves were considered but I felt they didn't fit the general theme I was going for, plus I felt that if they were to be introduced it would be with an Ulric aligned character.

As for the Handmaidens I considered them but felt they were too similar to other ethereal units. Wasn't sure how to make them more unique.

One idea I had is a "Battle Wizard Squad" or something along those lines, basically a small unit of battle wizards who fire magical artillery and have access to a couple wind and vortex spells from the various winds.
 
Sinsystems said:
  • Mathilde: Legendary Lord, our favorite lucky Grey Wizard. As expected she will be a hybrid lord, mixture between a Shadow Caster and an Assassin. Generally the idea would be having her murderize the enemy lord or characters using her stealth and mobility to get close enough while also using her magic for wider support. For unique stuff beyond her gear giving her various boosts (Belt giving her very high spell resistance, Sword being a beat stick and so on). Has the unique ability to swap between an on foot mode where she has Stalk and a mounted mode where she has the increased speed of a horse (even more so than your average mounted unit, making her scary quick)
  • Halfling Fieldwarden: Fairly cheap ranged skirmisher, low speed but has the Stalk special rule. Low speed but with a special ability the decreases the range in which they can be detected.
  • Longshanks: Hybrid infantry, possess a stalk and a fairly strong ranged attack. Can fight in melee fairly well and they will be rather quick for infantry. Have poisoned attacks.
  • Dusk Riders: The Unit version of the proposed plan we have for have for the Apparition binding spell plan. Take the form of Ring Wraith looking cavalry, they are an Elite cavalry option that is Ethereal, fast and designed for brawling combat rather than getting stuck in. Biggest feature of them is perfect vigor, utilization of Crumbling rules rather than fleeing and finally healing while engaged in combat. They are designed to get stuck into an enemy infantry blob and just blend their way through them.
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Legendary Lords can basically define their own strategies to an extent (Unless you're playing on the hardest difficulties in which case the only questions are how good they are at supporting the faction's best missile spam unit and whether they're a better spellcaster than a normal flying mounted hero caster.) The Empire doesn't really have melee assassins, the closest they have are the Empire Captain(Can be given a pegasus and used against enemy heroes, but they're more built around helping your other troops to hold the line), the witchhunter(ranged combatant and debuffer, has magic attacks out of the gate so they can kill ghosts) and the Huntsman General(Ranged lord, better against big monsters than human sized characters). So she's definitely bringing something new and interesting.

The fieldwardens are entering into a fairly crowded field, the empire already has Archers, Free Company Militia, Crossbowmen, Huntsmen and Handgunners, all of which are tier 3 or below and many of which are pretty good. They feel like lower tier huntsman, mostly, and might see use in that capacity depending on how they're recruited.

Longshanks depends a lot on their tier, Tier 3 is where huntsman and handgunners live, both of which are already good at the thing they do, they'd probably have to be a smaller unit size but more powerful version of the huntsman, and I'm not sure how much use they would see. At tier 4 they'd definitely see use, and basically be a Huntsman+. I don't know about the balance though, the empire doesn't have any ranged infantry at tier 4 or 5, it's all cavalry and artillery, and the Sisters of Avelorn (High elf tier 4 AP archer unit with decent melee capabilities) are notoriously overpowered in campaign for doing something very similar to what these guys do.

Dusk Riders... I don't think there are any armies currently that have a mix of crumbling and non-crumbling units and I have no idea if that would cause issues, it might be better to just make them unbreakable. The fit's also kind of weird for the empire, imperial cavalry are all shock cavalry(Lightly armored units that will die in melee but can do lots of damage by cycle charging), they don't have any melee cavalry(The sort that gets into melee and stays there) at all, and putting in an extremely high tier one without anything leading up to it feels like a significant shift in capabilities.

The wizard squad idea feels pretty reasonable, the empire has wizard variety as a big thing and likes its diverse esoteric artillery. There are already some units out there which come loaded with bound spells that don't draw on winds of magic, and while those are usually in support of a unit that can also fight there's no reason you couldn't make it the whole point of a unit. It'd probably go in the tier 5 Wizard's tower with the luminarch of Hysh.
 
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Saidoro said:
Dusk Riders... I don't think there are any armies currently that have a mix of crumbling and non-crumbling units and I have no idea if that would cause issues, it might be better to just make them unbreakable.
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This is actually a thing, off the top of my head one of the Vampire Counts mechanics updates added the ability to recruit a small number of human troops with the normal leadership mechanic. I think there are other examples but I can't remember what they are.
 
Saidoro said:
Legendary Lords can basically define their own strategies to an extent (Unless you're playing on the hardest difficulties in which case the only questions are how good they are at supporting the faction's best missile spam unit and whether they're a better spellcaster than a normal flying mounted hero caster.) The Empire doesn't really have melee assassins, the closest they have are the Empire Captain(Can be given a pegasus and used against enemy heroes, but they're more built around helping your other troops to hold the line), the witchhunter(ranged combatant and debuffer, has magic attacks out of the gate so they can kill ghosts) and the Huntsman General(Ranged lord, better against big monsters than human sized characters). So she's definitely bringing something new and interesting.
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Glad to hear it, I figured that Mathilde would be a fun fit. She is a flexible option that can sit back behind the lines supporting your armies until the right opportunity to slip into a gap and assassinate the enemy lord or special character.
Saidoro said:
The fieldwardens are entering into a fairly crowded field, the empire already has Archers, Free Company Militia, Crossbowmen, Huntsmen and Handgunners, all of which are tier 3 or below and many of which are pretty good. They feel like lower tier huntsman, mostly, and might see use in that capacity depending on how they're recruited.
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Well I figured that they'd be very low tier, like maybe even tier 1 with them being cheap ambush units. Potentially give them vanguard on top of their stalk but not sure.

Saidoro said:
Longshanks depends a lot on their tier, Tier 3 is where huntsman and handgunners live, both of which are already good at the thing they do, they'd probably have to be a smaller unit size but more powerful version of the huntsman, and I'm not sure how much use they would see. At tier 4 they'd definitely see use, and basically be a Huntsman+. I don't know about the balance though, the empire doesn't have any ranged infantry at tier 4 or 5, it's all cavalry and artillery, and the Sisters of Avelorn (High elf tier 4 AP archer unit with decent melee capabilities) are notoriously overpowered in campaign for doing something very similar to what these guys do.
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I'd make them tier 4, since they are religion based units, and I think they wouldn't be as strong as the Sisters of Avelorn by giving up higher stats for having Vanguard and Stalk.

Saidoro said:
Dusk Riders... I don't think there are any armies currently that have a mix of crumbling and non-crumbling units and I have no idea if that would cause issues, it might be better to just make them unbreakable. The fit's also kind of weird for the empire, imperial cavalry are all shock cavalry(Lightly armored units that will die in melee but can do lots of damage by cycle charging), they don't have any melee cavalry(The sort that gets into melee and stays there) at all, and putting in an extremely high tier one without anything leading up to it feels like a significant shift in capabilities. And aesthetically, I'm not sure how much I like the empire having free-floating magical beasties, it feels off-theme, like they should remain tied to their summoner somehow. But that could just be a personal problem.
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Actually there are, the new Chaos factions have a mixture of Mortal units that rout and Daemonic units that crumble. It's why I gave them the Crumble rule as they are technically daemons so having them use the same set up makes sense.

The melee cavalry bit was intentional, it is a niche within the Empire that I felt would be a nice thing to fill with a unit and would be a fun addition to the set up. I acknowledge that they are a bit off-theme for the Empire, but I think it works for them as they are meant to be something weird that doesn't quite fit.

As for something to lead into them....well it's kind of tricky to make something that fits. Like I could theoretically make a lower tier version call a Black Rider but it feels kinda cheap to do so.
Saidoro said:
The wizard squad idea feels pretty reasonable, the empire has wizard variety as a big thing and likes its diverse esoteric artillery. There are already some units out there which come loaded with bound spells that don't draw on winds of magic, and while those are usually in support of a unit that can also fight there's no reason you couldn't make it the whole point of a unit. It'd probably go in the tier 5 Wizard's tower with the luminarch of Hysh.
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That is the idea, basically I'd imagine that it would be a unit that calls down fairly accurate magical artillery at a target location. Biggest perk of the unit is their access to a handful of spells, mainly attack spells such as Penumbral Pendulum or Chain Lightning that you can drop a limited amount of.

A full Doom stack of them being hilarious as you start throwing out spells like crazy.
 
Jreengus said:
This is actually a thing, off the top of my head one of the Vampire Counts mechanics updates added the ability to recruit a small number of human troops with the normal leadership mechanic. I think there are other examples but I can't remember what they are.
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Oh yeah, I forgot about the Carsteins. I barely ever use them because I'm too busy making ten million skeletons and they only give like half of one army's worth of ranged units.
 
Also I would say that the other running theme for Mathilde's faction is Lord of the Rings references. The developers would probably have an event chain that can net you some Fellowship equivalent in terms of heroes and lords.
 
It seems like Johann personally might be a better unit than a wizard club, mostly because sub-battlemagic is not really used and none of our ducklings have any battle magic. So put in Johann as a melee lord type with a wizard skin, and a spell from his arm.
 
Glau said:
It seems like Johann personally might be a better unit than a wizard club, mostly because sub-battlemagic is not really used and none of our ducklings have any battle magic. So put in Johann as a melee lord type with a wizard skin, and a spell from his arm.
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Well an idea I had was that the DLC would also include a free update that adds Metal Wizard lords to the options that the Empire has. As from what I can tell that is the only wind that they are still missing in game.

As such Johann is going to be the basis for the Gold Lord, mainly glorious golden shirtless men who punch in melee.
 
mathymancer said:
Boris seems like a cool guy, but the point of this is to make friends with Kislev so we can eventually get help on the Waystone project, right? Maybe it'll be best to approach the Ice Witches directly. Boris seemed willing and able to command the Ice Witches to help us when we last spoke to him, so we could go that way, but I'll rather have the Ice Witches helping us of their own free will.
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I do want the Ice Witches, but I also wouldn't mind some of the financial support Boris offered us when we were shoping for a HQ for the project. After all, looking for funding is an important part of academic research and there are always books we could buy or copy "for the Project".
 
Thinking about it, the Ice witches seem like a better call than Boris, not because he cannot give us anything worthwhile, he absolutely can, but because we and the witches have complementary interests when it comes to the favor of the throne.

Ice Witches - Are at a low ebb at court and need a big win in order to stage a triumphant return
Mathilde - Foreigner wanting to prove the utility of her strange stone whispering to the realm of Kislev

If we go to the witches it is entirely possible we can carry on together and then bring more to the Tzarinovich than either of us could alone, since one is an internal faction and the other a foreigner we would not be competing for the same sort of favor so we can help each other out. Mathilde has dwarf connections and a magic no one in Kislev uses and the witches have an intimate connection with the land which might allow them to track Drycha as well as the sheer magical power that they should be able to match her quite well

Actually that does bring an interesting point, what is a fey army, or even just an ancient fey doing in Kislev of all places. I mean granted this is the end of the first turn of the year which would make it summer, but this is still the land with the winter magic, when winter is one of the main weaknesses of Athel Loren. That is half the reason they even allied with the elves to begin with, because elves unlike the fey can be active in winter.

Of course the answer could be 'Drycha is insane', but I do not think that is the case, spiteful and evil certainly, but if her plots in canon are to be taken into account she is quite clever still...?

This is third order speculation so take this with a grain of salt, or better yet take it with a pound or two, but what if she is planning to steal ice magic somehow, to send a flash of untimely winter onto her rivals in Athel Loren, then when their fey protectors are unexpectedly rendered unable to help she would fall on the elves
 
What I am curious about is what the local horrors are doing. Beastmen do not seem the type to hide so I think they may be gathering into a war herd . There is also at least 1 active insane vampire who would be angry, maybe a second angry vampire, goblins, orks and than you have the wildlife. You think there be a lot more reports of any of those things fleeing or fighting.
 
Nurgle said:
What I am curious about is what the local horrors are doing. Beastmen do not seem the type to hide so I think they may be gathering into a war herd . There is also at least 1 active insane vampire who would be angry, maybe a second angry vampire, goblins, orks and than you have the wildlife. You think there be a lot more reports of any of those things fleeing or fighting.
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The beastmen could all have gathered already and been slaughtered by the fey in the depths of the woods, not like a fight veiled like that would have drawn a lot of attention.
 
DragonParadox said:
The beastmen could all have gathered already and been slaughtered by the fey in the depths of the woods, not like a fight veiled like that would have drawn a lot of attention.
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There should have been some survivors fleeing than. Because while a murder of dryads are effective Beastmen always seems to have a few survivors. But we have got none. Which means the dryads are far more numerous and dangerous than normal or the Beastmen are gathering to push back. What I am trying to get at is there should be small groups of enemies fleeing the Forrest or the enemy is powerful enough to kill all its enemies in a Forrest bigger than some countries.
 
Apart from the whole Dum situation, every time beastmen have been mentioned in the quest they've been the punching bag. They are not doing too well at the moment, and I can't help but wonder if they are being driven into a corner or something and are just waiting to burst out or something.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Apart from the whole Dum situation, every time beastmen have been mentioned in the quest they've been the punching bag. They are not doing too well at the moment, and I can't help but wonder if they are being driven into a corner or something and are just waiting to burst out or something.
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Beastmen often are a punching bag, since they are a very common enemy and not the most organized. The issue is that they will keep coming back and if you don't keep a constant lid on them they will build up to a critical mass before rampaging across the land.
 
Sinsystems said:
Beastmen often are a punching bag, since they are a very common enemy and not the most organized. The issue is that they will keep coming back and if you don't keep a constant lid on them they will build up to a critical mass before rampaging across the land.
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Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. How far can you kick a murderous, mutant puppy until it rips off your leg and dedicates it to the dark gods?
 
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