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@Boney quick question.

What do the elf's we have hired for jobs such as book copying or building the house about this whole thing? Because Mathy has been throwing gold at the usually long term unemployed class of elf.

An odd, but one of gig?

A potential long term new market, or at last job as long as this human thing lasts.

They're Elves. Mathilde has barely been there for the blink of an eye for them.

And I wonder what they are thinking about their skills value in the empire. Can they tell that mathy is an unusually wealthily Bibliophile. Or are some of them wondering if 'elf scribe' might make them a good amount of money… lack of job opportunities has always been an mayor 'work abroad' factor.

Or is that something we need to investigate to get a read on.

Any Toriour that moves away from the city (except for military service) stops being a Toriour. Anyone that values job opportunities over citizenship has already left the city to join the Faniour, where there is always hunting and gathering and fossicking to be done.
 
They're Elves. Mathilde has barely been there for the blink of an eye for them.
To put this into perspective, Mathilde's only been in Laurelorn for a year and some change. The half year hasn't ended because this turn hasn't ended. The Elves have been scribing for her for one year. That's a very short time.

At least they're not Slaan where they blink and a decade passes.
Any Toriour that moves away from the city (except for military service) stops being a Toriour. Anyone that values job opportunities over citizenship has already left the city to join the Faniour, where there is always hunting and gathering and fossicking to be done.
Yeah, you have lots of job opportunities in Laurelorn, and some of them seem to be (mostly) chill. Be like Cadaeth. All she knows is McDonalds, charging her Lornalim, be bisexual, eat hot chip and lie.
 
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I swear there was a post where Boney gave the average lifespan for a Battle Wizard in single-digit years, but I tried looking recently and had zero luck.

Still, the only ways out are death or promotion, and most don't get promoted.

Average lifespan isn't quite that telling as a lot of the deaths are likely junior Battle Wizards who haven't fully mastered their spellwork.

I'd expect that the elite Battle Wizards from the back of the envelope count have a life expectancy as good as the average Magister (and are likely allowed going out privileges and a lot of autonomy) whilst adventurous Journeymen and young Battle Wizards drop like flies.

Old BWs and Magisters likely retire to teaching or research and only the absolutely exceptional on each track get promoted to LM - who are likely to be expected to be superbly accomplished on every level.

Back of the envelope count for reference:
250 Minor Talents, Sealed, and Perpetual Apprentices
200 Apprentices
100 Journeymen, 25 Battle Wizards
50 Magisters, 5 Elite Battle Wizards
4 Wizard Lords, 1 'Graduated' Battle Wizard
1 Patriarch
 
If a Battle Wizard decides they're done, I don't see why they can't retire and stay in the College as a Perpetual or Seal themselves. We've seen an example of someone who had potential and power but sealed themselves because of an unfortunate series of events.

Maybe they wouldn't have had the choice of retirement before Dragomas, but I think one of the first things you'd do to improve their lot is to give them a retirement package if they want. Not everyone who signs up for a risky job is fully aware of the trauma they'd experience or the things they'd go through.
I find that somewhat dubious. Battlemages seem to be kept apart and under closer eye because of the sheer danger someone who actually knows battlemagic possesses. And because they could potentially explode and all, but the reason why they are under such heavy vigil will primarily be the first one. So while i could believe they could be made to stay confined within their college as a perpetual maybe, i rather doubt the sealing would work because of what they already know.

Same with retiring. They can only go up, as one of the major underlying prerequisitives for being LM is absolute trust in the person being promoted, or stay where they are.

Noone forces you to become a Battlemage, but there is price to pay for becoming one, and it is steep one.
 
I find that somewhat dubious. Battlemages seem to be kept apart and under closer eye because of the sheer danger someone who actually knows battlemagic possesses. And because they could potentially explode and all, but the reason why they are under such heavy vigil will primarily be the first one. So while i could believe they could be made to stay confined within their college as a perpetual maybe, i rather doubt the sealing would work because of what they already know.

Same with retiring. They can only go up, as one of the major underlying prerequisitives for being LM is absolute trust in the person being promoted, or stay where they are.

Noone forces you to become a Battlemage, but there is price to pay for becoming one, and it is steep one.
Forcing someone who doesn't want to continue doing their risky job anymore to continue doing that job despite expressing a desire to stop is one of the dumbest decisions you could make. It's basics of management that you shouldn't do that, because an uncooperative Battle Wizard is far worse than them deciding to retire and do something else.

If somebody told you they want to quit and you tell them no you don't, it becomes a legit waste of resources to send them out on the field because you have to put them under tighter observation than keeping them back in the College where they can do something else. It would be utter idiocy to force someone who wants to quit the job where they can become a bomb at any moment by forcing them to continue working that job in public.
 
Forcing someone who doesn't want to continue doing their risky job anymore to continue doing that job despite expressing a desire to stop is one of the dumbest decisions you could make. It's basics of management that you shouldn't do that, because an uncooperative Battle Wizard is far worse than them deciding to retire and do something else.
I mean yeah sure. But at that point you weight an unwilling hazard and active security threat that has knowledge of how to bring ruination to cities that you can't trust. If they retire, they still stay confined, i think.

I am not saying they are literally forced out into field, but willing or unwilling, they won't be without very careful supervision likely in confined in the colleges themselves for like, ever.

Sealing prevents the active participation (i think? Not sure how exactly sealing works) but doesn't stop them from imparting instruction to someone else, whetever under duress or willingly.
 
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I mean yeah sure. But at that point you weight an unwilling hazard and active security threat that has knowledge of how to bring ruination to cities that you can't trust. If they retire, they still stay confined, i think. I am not saying they are literally forced out into field, but willing or unwilling, they won't be without very careful supervision like, ever.
I mean, sure, but the person I was responding to said that the only two choices are death or promotion, which I objected to. Some people suffer career ending injuries and decide to stop going to battles. You wouldn't force a Battle Wizard who's been paralysed from the waist down to go to Battle (the implication here being that he can't be healed). He'd likely get onto a wheelchair and teach lessons or something. Death or promotion aren't the only options.
 
I mean, sure, but the person I was responding to said that the only two choices are death or promotion, which I objected to. Some people suffer career ending injuries and decide to stop going to battles. You wouldn't force a Battle Wizard who's been paralysed from the waist down to go to Battle (the implication here being that he can't be healed). He'd likely get onto a wheelchair and teach lessons or something. Death or promotion aren't the only options.
Sorta, i think? Like, its not that extreme, but ultimately the only way out of the gilded cage of Battlemages probably is death or promotion. They will never be let off to wander the world casting around wonders (aside from special dispensation as we have seen in quest) the way journeymen or magisters do unless they make it to Lord Magister, i think. Their life is still one of confinement and in that way i think he was right.

We do know Dragomas made their life better but we don't know how exactly how and
In eight very secure locations, those that have sacrificed their freedom to learn the most potent magics known to the Colleges are given word that the Empire has need of their services once again. There are preparations that must be made beforehand, to gird the minds and souls of those who flirt with disaster with every spell, and to plan the exact form the destruction they are about to unleash will take. By the time they arrive, you intend for them to know exactly where to aim the devastation that is their purpose.
They might not be forced to fight but they are still confined and will likely stay that way until they are dead or LM.
 
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I'm not interested in arguing about semantics. We were talking about death, not gilded cage. The discussion was never about the cage. I've barely even mentioned it. I was focused on the death part.
 
I'm not interested in arguing about semantics. We were talking about death, not gilded cage. The discussion was never about the cage. I've barely even mentioned it. I was focused on the death part.
You were arguing with Mopman who said that the only way are death or promotion. He is right. The only way out of being treated like a Battlemage is stop being someone that was taught to be Battlemage, and that is by either becoming a LM or a corpse as far as we can infer.

The Gilded Cage is what being Battlemage means.
 
You were arguing with Mopman who said that the only way are death or promotion. He is right. The only way out of being treated like a Battlemage is stop being someone that was taught to be Battlemage, and that is by either becoming a LM or a corpse as far as we can infer.

The Gilded Cage is what being Battlemage means.
I wasn't arguing with him. He was replying to me. I was replying to Primemountain. Primemountain was effectively saying that death is a guarantee, I replied saying no it wasn't, Mopman replied by saying death or promotion is the only way out. Are you capable of reading my argument better than I am? I know what I was arguing for, and I never even considered the cage. I was talking about death.

If you're going to reply to me, at least try to understand what my argument is about. Mopman replied to me first, so he was engaging my argument, and I know what I was arguing about more than somebody else reading my post.
 
I mean, unless your a vamp or a nehekharan liche, death is always a guarantee isn't it?

Edit: I agree with codex.
 
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I mean, unless your a vamp or a nehekharan liche, death is always a guarantee isn't it?

Edit: I agree with codex.
According to Mazdamundi, nobody can escape death. Well, except for a certain someone:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGP3Y643h7k&ab_channel=DreadAnon

In the End Times, Lord Kroak was wiped out by meteorites. In Age of Sigmar, while his body was destroyed, his mind wandered the universe and he somehow maintained conciousness. He then willed himself back to life, creating a new body. He took "I think, therefore I am" to its literal conclusion.
 
Are Gods dieable in Warhammer? From Ulric noticing Mathilde with the wolves I thought they were concept-y.

Or is this a less worshippers = less power type'a deal?


I imagine gods can be consumed by stronger ones of similar concepts from Ranald-Gork to an exceptionally higher degree, but that's from one god to another. Would it be possible then to do it without one through a mortal and if it is, then can all gods in totality die?
 
Are Gods dieable in Warhammer? From Ulric noticing Mathilde with the wolves I thought they were concept-y.

Or is this a less worshippers = less power type'a deal?


I imagine gods can be consumed by stronger ones of similar concepts from Ranald-Gork to an exceptionally higher degree, but that's from one god to another. Would it be possible then to do it without one through a mortal and if it is, then can all gods in totality die?
In canon? Yes. Quest canon? I don't know. Elspeth is said to have the ashes of a dead god in her hourglass. There are multiple instances of Gods dying in End Times. Valaya, the Gods of Nehekhara, Ulric etc.
 
"You said that Ranald had wronged the Widow in some way," you probe.

"And now he seems to be making amends. You do not know the tale?" You shake your head. "The short of it is that the Widow and Her siblings were once much more than four, before Salyak had your Ranald interfere." She sighs, and closes her eyes again. "The details are ugly, and not to be shared with those outside Their service. In the aftermath They found us, the Gospodar. So perhaps it was for the best. But amends are still required."
Seems to be a pretty clear example of Gods dying in quest canon.

In terms of mortals killing gods, I'm inclined to doubt it, but then again, consider Nagash. Can you kill a god, without becoming one yourself?
 
In canon? Yes. Quest canon? I don't know. Elspeth is said to have the ashes of a dead god in her hourglass. There are multiple instances of Gods dying in End Times. Valaya, the Gods of Nehekhara, Ulric etc.
Like Godkiller-Dagger died? God absorption? Died memetically? I tried, but my google-fu is weak.

Gods dying seems pretty on-brand with the tone, but I guess I'm asking the nature of it. Is it anthropomorphised i.e they're effectively humans with SFX fighting each other, or metaphorical "Divine lightning struck the Infernal Stone which shrieked of the Thrice-Damned", or like a JRPG where a not-yet God gets stronger and stronger until they can.

The winds then I guess can't die? If they're sentient that is, which I think is not just quest-theory but Warhammer canon?
 
Like Godkiller-Dagger died? God absorption? Died memetically? I tried, but my google-fu is weak.

Gods dying seems pretty on-brand with the tone, but I guess I'm asking the nature of it. Is it anthropomorphised i.e they're effectively humans with SFX fighting each other, or metaphorical "Divine lightning struck the Infernal Stone which shrieked of the Thrice-Damned", or like a JRPG where a not-yet God gets stronger and stronger until they can.

The winds then I guess can't die? If they're sentient that is, which I think is not just quest-theory but Warhammer canon?
I think it's kind of anthromorphised, but usually it's something like an Avatar being killed or a Sacred Object being destroyed. Gregor Martak the Avatar of Ulric was killed, Ulric's Sacred Flame was extinguished, and I think Ulric saved Sigmar's life (oh yeah Sigmar comes back in all his glory in End Times because his two previous Avatars couldn't do the job) before dying. They wanted to make it dramatic. People who read the End Times use "eat" to refer to some of the God deaths, I don't know how literal that is. Nagash is really into vore I guess.

Anyways, as a side note yes, in Total War Warhammer III the 9th Legendary Lord is you and the friends you make along the way. I'm not joking, you customise your Daemon Prince like you're in the Build-A-Bear workshop (Build a Be'lakor?), and you get to dedicate yourself to different gods to get more custom parts to kitbash your lord into a new and horrifying monstrosity. Warhammer MMO we got the technology.

And I guess a spoiler?
The Daemon Prince character is apparently a former Ungol Prince, so I guess that's where CA decided to put the Ungol...
 
I think it's kind of anthromorphised, but usually it's something like an Avatar being killed or a Sacred Object being destroyed. Gregor Martak the Avatar of Ulric was killed, Ulric's Sacred Flame was extinguished, and I think Ulric saved Sigmar's life (oh yeah Sigmar comes back in all his glory in End Times because his two previous Avatars couldn't do the job) before dying. They wanted to make it dramatic. People who read the End Times use "eat" to refer to some of the God deaths, I don't know how literal that is. Nagash is really into vore I guess.

Anyways, as a side note yes, in Total War Warhammer III the 9th Legendary Lord is you and the friends you make along the way. I'm not joking, you customise your Daemon Prince like you're in the Build-A-Bear workshop (Build a Be'lakor?), and you get to dedicate yourself to different gods to get more custom parts to kitbash your lord into a new and horrifying monstrosity. Warhammer MMO we got the technology.

And I guess a spoiler?
The Daemon Prince character is apparently a former Ungol Prince, so I guess that's where CA decided to put the Ungol...
Don't worry, I'm confident that the Ungol units for Kislev are just being saved for an overpriced DLC!

Wait.
 
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