Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I think it is worth keeping in mind that is whoever is behind this knows about Heidi than the could conceivably spill the beans to Regimand, the man who i will remind you already killed one empress for being a vulnerability to the Empire. He could well react to the revelation by either revealing Heidi or trying to assassinate her.
I would be arguing harder about this but I do not really care about the empress that much, just a note for those who might care.
I would be arguing harder about this but I do not really care about the empress that much, just a note for those who might care.
To be fair, that Empress was a vampire cultist, whilst this Empress wants a strong Empire so her son can inherit it and legitimise the worship of Ranald, a god that's already legal and tolerated. Sure, she's not being alturisitc, but this is the place where she chose to raise her son, and I think she can be counted on to protect it when necessary, which is an argument that we can present to Regimand.
The Light Order arguably can, as it's their job to find and destroy supernatural corruption within the Empire*, including within its government.
The Grey Order isn't the only of the orders of magic that are the supernatural secret police.
We don't want to set a precedent that either the secular government or one of the Cults should be messing around with the Light Order's internal governance, or, indeed, with any of the Order's internal governance, but particularly not the Light Order's.
* The Grey Order looks for networks of chaos cultists, the Light Order looks for daemonic possession or corrupting objects.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
[X] Bring in Heidi
I really do not want to see Heidi's secret exposed, it would not only suck personally it would also be really really bad for everyone involved. Aside from the Grey College just about everyone else involved would have good justification for revealing that secret, Alric foremost among them. Heck even the Grey College might want to expose it as well.
I really do not want to see Heidi's secret exposed, it would not only suck personally it would also be really really bad for everyone involved. Aside from the Grey College just about everyone else involved would have good justification for revealing that secret, Alric foremost among them. Heck even the Grey College might want to expose it as well.
- Pronouns
- He/His/etc
The Light Order is more of the not-secret police. They operate in the open to shine a revealing light into dark places.
(and when the conspirators scurry for the shadows to get away from the visible investigation, they find the Grey Order already there waiting for them)
- Location
- Spain
[X] Bring in Heidi
- Location
- Oklahoma
[X] Bring in Heidi
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
[X] [SADDLE] Donate it to Stirland
I'm okay with the Hochlander but I prefer Stirland. For multiple reasons. It let's us interact with Roswita. It allows her better contact and control of Eastern Stirland while residing in Western Stirland. It reminds her that we are a good friend to have beyond EIC considerations. It keeps the Dämmerlichterreiter myth alive.
[X] Bring in Heidi
I was torn between Regimand and Heidi, but the way I see it a) Heidi doesn't need to come in person to help us and b) it is easier to start with Heidi and convince her that our old master would be exactly the right person to help us than it is to tell Regimand that we should go to the Empress of all things. Starting with Heidi allows us to spin it as if she approached us out of the goodness of her heart to protect another noble house from sharing the fate of her own. Remember that she claims to be a Haupt-Andersen so she is already legitimately involved without having to show any knowledge about the Lahmian conspiracy.
I'm okay with the Hochlander but I prefer Stirland. For multiple reasons. It let's us interact with Roswita. It allows her better contact and control of Eastern Stirland while residing in Western Stirland. It reminds her that we are a good friend to have beyond EIC considerations. It keeps the Dämmerlichterreiter myth alive.
[X] Bring in Heidi
I was torn between Regimand and Heidi, but the way I see it a) Heidi doesn't need to come in person to help us and b) it is easier to start with Heidi and convince her that our old master would be exactly the right person to help us than it is to tell Regimand that we should go to the Empress of all things. Starting with Heidi allows us to spin it as if she approached us out of the goodness of her heart to protect another noble house from sharing the fate of her own. Remember that she claims to be a Haupt-Andersen so she is already legitimately involved without having to show any knowledge about the Lahmian conspiracy.
I mean that is nice and all but the fact that she married by deception and all means her son is not legitimate. It says 'Haupt-Andersen' on the papers which she is not so if the secret got revealed after Mandred ascended the throne that could cause civil war as the electors scramble to depose the baseborn pretender. Given how terrible that would be for the stability of the Empire and the choice between keeping the secret in perpetuity or just revealing it now Regimand, who is not as far as we know a devout Ranaldite, might well choose to unveil the secret now while the emperor can have a legitimate heir.
I bet lots of nobles would be miffed to hear that. Falsifying documents is how you become a High Noble - or not falsifying, but maybe more of misinterpretating truth.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [SADDLE] Give it to the Hochlander
[X] Bring in Heidi
[X] Bring in Heidi
I am not sure I get what you mean here. Do you mean to say that nobles are all made by deceptive paperwork? Because that is not generally how it goes, you have to be born to the right parents and marked down as such by the documents of the state and the local dominant cult.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
I mean you can also become a noble by doing a conquest.
13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
If it all comes out in the near term but the emperor decides he doesn't care and keeps Heidi as his wife, it really won't matter that much. Even in the less near term, what matters more is that Mandred is the emperor's son in a marriage regardless of who the wife is.
Yes, but conquest is not fraud the argument of 'well you are all just overly pompous bandits' isn't going to hold much water IC.
It actually matters a lot if it comes out after the emperor is dead, see old Wilhelm swore to marry Heidi Haupt Andersen, if it comes out that he woman he married and had a child with was not Heidi Haupt Andersen then he never remarried and his son is a bastard. Of course bastards can be legitimized, but since Wilhelm would be in the ground by then he cannot legitimize his son, so you now have a bastard on the throne who was put there under false pretenses when the Elector Counts thought he was legitimate. That is ample reason to rebel, and not even going into the fact that upon discovering Heidi was a lying commoner it would be child's play to slander her and imply she was cheating.
*looks up*
Why am I defending Heidi? I don't even like her.
Dam internet debating instincts.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Not quite. You become royalty by doing a conquest. You become a noble as reward or payment from a royal or another noble. Elector Counts in the Warhammer Fantasy Empire are a bit more complicated because they are something in between royalty and nobility in practice.
The Emperor is called Luitpold. Wilhelm was the last Emperor of the real German Empire.
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Why is Heidi the bad guy and Lutipold—who married the first politically convenient woman with a working womb—is painted as an innocent victim?
Lutipold needed an heir, and all of the choices had some sort of political strings attached—like being members of rival families, for example—and then here comes along a woman with no allies, no titles, no deeds, no enemies—nothing but the clothes on her back and a tragic backstory—and he snaps her up and puts a child in her belly, but it's okay, because she should be honoured to be the Emperors wife.
Lutipold needed an heir, and all of the choices had some sort of political strings attached—like being members of rival families, for example—and then here comes along a woman with no allies, no titles, no deeds, no enemies—nothing but the clothes on her back and a tragic backstory—and he snaps her up and puts a child in her belly, but it's okay, because she should be honoured to be the Emperors wife.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I more think it's okay because she was like...very explicitly aiming for that exact outcome? Don't get me wrong, I'm broadly on team "Heidi is a good ally and morally gray at worst," but I don't think it does anyone any favors to diminish her agency in this situation.
I do not really care that much about the morality of the situation, just pointing out the Grey Order is unlikely to take the whole 'massive scandal in the wings of imperial succession' lightly.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Because she's lying about her identity, and all those advantages are based on a lie. And she did all of this voluntarily and knowingly.
I'm not saying she's an evil person, or that she doesn't have good reasons, but from Luitpold POV she's lying about nearly everything.