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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Heh, if Ranald's daughters are Hekarti and Atharti, then the Father side of the coin would potentially be invaluable if we ever somehow find ourselves needing to pull a con on Morathi.

(Assuming that she's following one of them and not Slannesh or whatever, given that changes depending on edition, and with the caveat that Morathi might very well be the sort of figure who's suspicions would be raised by the coin)
 
I am unconvinced they are dark elven twin goddesses, btw. Because Pleasure and Dark Magic don't seem to be particularly close to any of Ranald's or Shallya's domains, and rather opposite to them, actually, as Shallya decries selfishness and Ranald is opposed to those who wield Dark Magic in his Protector Aspect.

They could be god equivalent of teenage rebels, lol, but Ranald rather feels like an overprotective ( tho if I was a father in Warhammer Fantasy, I also would have hidden my kids from fucking everyone except maybe some people I absolutely trusted ) dad, rather than embarrassed one.

So these seem to be completely new beings, which lines up with suggestions about his seeking amends with his in-laws that other questers came up with.
 
Jreengus said:
I trust Mathilde to keep hedgewise involvement secret from those who shouldn't know. We already have a suggested cover story of assessing them for suitability to join the Grey order and the knowledge they bring can either be sold as a defector providing info from their previous group or just as Grey Order secrets.
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A defector would still be breaking the Articles of Imperial Magic unless they were made a member of the Grey College, and it would be a fair amount of work for Mathilde to act as a cut out between their representative and everyone else.

It would seem far more useful, other things being equal, to recruit project members that could actually meet the other people on the project.

Mathilde could keep Hedgewise involvement secret, I'm sure, but at the cost of effort and lower research productivity than would be possible with a collaborator that didn't have to be hidden.

There's also the problem that this project involves information sharing. Some other groups may object to sharing their secrets with people that they haven't approved of and are unaware of. This may include Cults who could be told by their gods about such unauthorised breaches of their secrecy in ways that would be very hard for us to block.
 
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Alratan said:
On a different note, I really don't think we should try to recruit the Hedgewise. They actually are a banned organisation/practice in the Empire by my understanding.

The Grey College may have a secret understanding with the Hedgewise (or one or more group of them?), but that doesn't mean we can publicly associate with them. Particularly as I think several of the Cults probably retain their historical animosity for them, and might well object if they learn about it - which they may if we recruit other Imperial institutions, including other Colleges which have their own connections and alliances with the Cults.

I'm not sure it applies here, but I think Shades of the Empire says that the (presumably excluding the Grey) Magisters of the Colleges actively hunt down and persecute Hedgefolk.
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Algard is way ahead of you, and told us already how to recruit the Hedgefolk.
Boney said:
"What about your lot, Kurtis?" Algard asks.

"The Middenland Hedgewise call themselves 'Cunning Folk'. They're Ranaldites and they have a long-running feud with the Ulricans, so it might be difficult to bring them on board. The Nordlanders are Haléthans and as such are largely concentrated east of the Salz to watch over the Forest of Shadows, so they don't really have any bad blood with the Elves."

"Something to keep in mind, once you're established," Algard says with a nod.

"By which the Magister Patriarch means that collaboration with them may be of use as a pretence for ascertaining their suitability to join one of the Orders of Magic, as required by Article 13," Kurtis says. "Otherwise collaboration with the Hedgewise would make you a party to a breach of Article 3."

"That is of course what I meant," Algard says with a smile. "I understand said ascertaining can take quite some time."

"Years. Decades, even." Kurtis agrees.

"Got to do the job properly."
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Alratan said:
On a different note, I really don't think we should try to recruit the Hedgewise. They actually are a banned organisation/practice in the Empire by my understanding.

The Grey College may have a secret understanding with the Hedgewise (or one or more group of them?), but that doesn't mean we can publicly associate with them. Particularly as I think several of the Cults probably retain their historical animosity for them, and might well object if they learn about it - which they may if we recruit other Imperial institutions, including other Colleges which have their own connections and alliances with the Cults.

I'm not sure it applies here, but I think Shades of the Empire says that the (presumably excluding the Grey) Magisters of the Colleges actively hunt down and persecute Hedgefolk as well, which is why their situation has deteriorated further since the Colleges were founded.
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Algard basically gave us an okay to hire Hedgewise if we feel it justified.

uh, Mathild'd.
 
Mopman43 said:
Heh, if Ranald's daughters are Hekarti and Atharti, then the Father side of the coin would potentially be invaluable if we ever somehow find ourselves needing to pull a con on Morathi.

(Assuming that she's following one of them and not Slannesh or whatever, given that changes depending on edition, and with the caveat that Morathi might very well be the sort of figure who's suspicions would be raised by the coin)
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Morathi is I think too prideful to serve any god, yes even the god of pride. :V
 
So, we have a new face of the coin that we're probably not going to use due to not knowing who it'd apply to and the knowledge that Ranald is a dad.

That's... nice, I guess? I'm having a hard time finding something positive to say about it. Maybe it'd affect me more if I'd known anything about WHF before this quest but as is, my reaction is more "huh, why exactly did he have to hide having kids? And what's so important about that?" and less "OMG he has kids!" And the end result is just a vague "...meh." I just... kinda don't care.
 
Raiseth said:
tho if I was a father in Warhammer Fantasy, I also would have hidden my kids from fucking everyone except maybe some people I absolutely trusted
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Waela said:
Maybe it'd affect me more if I'd known anything about WHF before this quest but as is, my reaction is more "huh, why exactly did he have to hide having kids? And what's so important about that?"
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That's okay. Being a crazy cat aunty that gifts her charges with neighing wooden horses isn't everyone's cup of tea.

As for it's important. Ranald is a Major God of the Empire, any business involving him is different degrees of important.
 
Pempelune said:
Algard is way ahead of you, and told us already how to recruit the Hedgefolk.
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Only if they don't cast any of their magic, I think. Nothing in article thirteen allows a member of the Hedgefolk to cast spells, they'd still be breaking the articles if they did so. The Magister isn't breaking the law by going out and talking to them and asking questions about their magic, but unless they're an apprentice the Hedgefolk doesn't seem to be allowed to cast.

This use of the articles puts Mathilde legally in the clear. It doesn't put the Hedgefolk in the clear, they'd still probably be committing a crime that the Witch Hunters could burn them for, I think, unless they were made a member of the Colleges.
 
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Raiseth said:
I am unconvinced they are dark elven twin goddesses, btw. Because Pleasure and Dark Magic don't seem to be particularly close to any of Ranald's or Shallya's domains, and rather opposite to them, actually, as Shallya decries selfishness and Ranald is opposed to those who wield Dark Magic in his Protector Aspect.

They could be god equivalent of teenage rebels, lol, but Ranald rather feels like an overprotective ( tho if I was a father in Warhammer Fantasy, I also would have hidden my kids from fucking everyone except maybe some people I absolutely trusted ) dad, rather than embarrassed one.

So these seem to be completely new beings, which lines up with suggestions about his seeking amends with his in-laws that other questers came up with.
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He would nor necessarily have to hide their children, but rather the fact of their birth. If Isha was stepping out on Kuronos.... well I imagine there would be some issues among the gods. It should also be noted that if Ranald is indeed Loec as Deathfang implied then he is the god of murder dancers and assassins who wield the lore of shadows. That is rather closer to pleasure and primal magic than not.

Saying 'these elven gods do not fit with the estimation of the human face of the god' rather misses the point. Of course we would first have to check if Ranald is indeed Loec (which we can thankfully do with good old fashioned mage sense).

Alratan said:
Only if they don't cast any of their magic, I think. Nothing in the articles allows a member of the Hedgefolk to cast spells, they'd still be breaking the articles if they did so. The Magister isn't breaking the law by going out and talking to them and asking questions about their magic, but unless they're an apprentice the Hedgefolk doesn't seem to be allowed to cast.

This use of the articles puts Mathilde legally in the clear. It doesn't put the Hedgefolk in the clear, they'd still probably be committing a crime that the Witch Hunters could burn them for, I think, unless they were made a member of the Colleges.
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Any witch hunters wishing to invade Laurelorn are free to do so, in fact you could call it a bonus, the empire gets rid of some idiots and the forestborn get target practice. :V
 
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DragonParadox said:
He would nor necessarily have to hide their children, but rather the fact of their birth. If Isha was stepping out on Kuronos.... well I imagine there would be some issues among the gods. It should also be noted that if Ranald is indeed Loec as Deathfang implied then he is the god of murder dancers and assassins who wield the lore of shadows. That is rather closer to pleasure and primal magic than not.

Saying 'these elven gods do not fit with the estimation of the human face of the god' rather misses the point. Of course we would first have to check if Ranald is indeed Loec (which we can thankfully do with good old fashioned mage sense).
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Okay, let me rephrase that.

Atharti and Hetharti could be children of Loec, who is another face-mask thingy that the entity we know as Ranald the Annoying wears when he is worshipped by the elves.

They are Loec's children then, not Ranald's and definitely not Shallya's.

It's a bit like saying Minerva is the daughter of Zeus or Aphrodite is the daughter of Njord, because she resembles Freja, has a myth about being created from water itself and Njord is all about seas.
 
Just picking up on something from above, Ranald may not oppose the use of dark magic because it's dark magic. He's oppose the use of dark magic as a tool of oppression, but he's oppose the use of non-dark magic as a tool of oppression.

He might even accept a worshipper using dark magic to overthrow a tyrant, just as he accepts other forms of collateral damage.
 
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Mhm, well this is interesting. At the very least the update didn't have Malthitide changing her relationship to Ranald to a traditional worshippor and more of a partnership that I like.

Anywho, Veekie pointed out that we could potentially use the coin to get the Hedgewise onto our side and while I was once wary before, I think we now have a shot at recruiting the Hedgewise of Middenland if we use the coin of the Father of them as their explicetly worshippors of Ranald so we might be able to get the trust of a few of their members on board.
Boney said:
"The Middenland Hedgewise call themselves 'Cunning Folk'. They're Ranaldites and they have a long-running feud with the Ulricans, so it might be difficult to bring them on board. The Nordlanders are Haléthans and as such are largely concentrated east of the Salz to watch over the Forest of Shadows, so they don't really have any bad blood with the Elves."
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Still hard, and whether it would be easier to recruit the Nordlander Hedgemages with the looming threat of Sigmarite groups moving into the province and persecuting them and the possible protection we can offer them by perhaps trying to negotiating safehavens for them in Laurelorn, giving them monotary resources to get for their magic stuff if it doesn't run afoul the articles.

Etc, etc. mhm, tempted to try and use the father side of the coin for the Middenland hedgewise for interesting story beats of encountering other randalites who may know more of Ranald and his story and them trusting us.
 
Alratan said:
Just picking up on something from above, while Ranald would oppose the use of dark magic because it's dark magic. He's oppose the use of dark magic as a tool of oppression, but he's oppose the use of non-dark magic as a tool of oppression.

He might even accept a worshipper using dark magic to overthrow a tyrant, just as he accepts other forms of collateral damage.
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Well, okay. That's probably true, but probably irrelevant to the reality of almost every dark elf being an asshole who willingly participates in and perpetrates their society of slavery and oppression.
…

Inb4 Ranald is this setting's version of Eilistraee, lol.
 
Raydom said:
Anywho, Veekie pointed out that we could potentially use the coin to get the Hedgewise onto our side and while I was once wary before, I think we now have a shot at recruiting the Hedgewise of Middenland if we use the coin of the Father of them as their explicetly worshippors of Ranald so we might be able to get the trust of a few of their members on board.
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The Father is for worshipers of Ranald's daughters not for worshipers of Ranald himself. Mathilde already has an in with worshipers of Ranald by virtue of being one of his favourite people.
 
At the very least I'm thankful he used his better judgement here.

...but there's also something extremely ironic about the deciding factor being AP hell only for the outcome to be a new sidequest of unknown scope whose pursuit requires monopolizing the use of the coin.

I suppose it was simply hubris to think Boney's wild ride could ever end on Halloween of all days. XD
 
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Huh.

So we could have kept the crystal thing a secret from Ranald, or at least Ranald might have pretended so, depending on if he was watching already or not, and done our own thing with it.
But we showed him openly what we had, placing trust in our oldest friend.... and he chose to reprociate in kind, revealing deeply personal and important (to him) information.

A secret for a secret, eh Ranald?

I can dig that.
And what a secret it turned out to be....
 
Raiseth said:
Okay, let me rephrase that.

Atharti and Hetharti could be children of Loec, who is another face-mask thingy that the entity we know as Ranald the Annoying wears when he is worshipped by the elves.

They are Loec's children then, not Ranald's and definitely not Shallya's.

It's a bit like saying Minerva is the daughter of Zeus or Aphrodite is the daughter of Njord, because she resembles Freja, has a myth about being created from water itself and Njord is all about seas.
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Except the gods are the same being, if they were not than truth would never have worked, there is no entity thing-y. Whether he is wearing a mustache or pointed ears he is the same being and if Shayla and Isha are the same being then they are the same being.
 
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