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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Jyn Ryvia said:
This really isn't a strong agreement Dragon.

Volans and the college being secular doesn't mean Mathy is it should be, and mathy being smart doesn't stop her being religious, lots of thinkers and scientists are religious.

Your whole argument is based on Mathy supporting a viewpoint that she clearly doesn't.
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On the other hand religious figures surpressing inconvient research is a thing that sits really unpleasantly with me. Take that as you will
 
Shane_357 said:
So the Western post-enlightenment academic establishment would like to think, but the last few decades of history, archaeology and anthropology have managed to find an awful lot of evidence that humans have been doing those things far longer than since the Enlightenment.
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I would ask for links, but that would threaten to take this way off topic so I think it is best to agree to disagree.
 
Trickster314 said:
In my opinion, both Faith and Truth would be acceptable to Ranald. Because as the god Mathilde is devoted to he definitely would not say no to getting the crystal as a sacrifice as it shows her devotion and the fact that she managed to steal from him.

At the same time, he is also the god of thieves and in a straight reading of his own lore, he stole divinity from another god so Mathilde continuing on her path and making future heists against other gods would also fit his teachings.

The Prudence option would be most against his teachings, we would have stolen from him and then done nothing with that knowledge.
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I do think that both would be acceptable, or at least not-divine-smited, by Ranald, yeah. There are lots of other questions raised though. Like, does the 'Faith' option highlight and strengthen "Mathilde as the faithful of Ranald" aspect of her character sheet, versus "Mathilde the researcher of the aethyr"? Is this partly also a personal choice -- of choosing whether to pursue a research despite your personal panic attack you just had about "Holy shit, this is potentially big and delicate?" i.e. Somebody could be making their choice based on whether they like the religion and faithful devout person angle of things more.
 
Shane_357 said:
Okay now this is just getting silly, but thank you for displaying the exact strain of reasoning I was originally asking Boney to provide a WOG on.
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I edited that post as I accidently clicked post early, check again.

Edit: Also I don't get how you can say no this option if you have any interest in divine research. Makes no sense considering any other way is noth theroical and has no guarantee that they wil not be more dangerious for less rewards. This is the holy grail.
 
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It occurs to me that, being able to fake another god's signature would work wonders for false flag operations.

Holy shit, in the wrong hands it would cause a religious war inside the Empire
 
Personally I think it's a bit optimistic to assume we can use this research to prove the divine origin of artifacts on a large scale, simply because it won't be allowed as long as cults of the empire hold enough power to force secrecy. Any large scale use of this research will be fought against by the priests of the empire.
 
Can we really say that the colleges are not better off with the results of knowledge of Dhar, despite us betraying their trust by having the Liber Mortis?
We have no intention of harming Ranald, and would actually help him given the chance, which such knowledge would better arm us for.
 
Tomcost said:
It occurs to me that, being able to fake another god's signature would work wonders for false flag operations.

Holy shit, in the wrong hands it would cause a religious war inside the Empire
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Because those are otherwise so rare. Truly priests acting stupidly are so rare that would need an arcane fabrication to cause a conflict between cults.

Priests of the same god routinely killed each other during the time of the three emperors, never mind other gods.
 
SMDVogrin said:
[X] Truth

If we're able to do this, it would be a MAJOR weapon to protect the empire. Being able to test some artifact, or magical effect, and be able to conclusively say that it is or is not from a proscribed god would revolutionize the work of the witch hunters and their ilk. Look at Kragg's dilemma with the Axe of Unknown Origin - one of the big worries in Warhammer is always "Is this a blessing of friendly gods, or a deception of chaos?", and this might be able to provide a way to demonstratively prove "Yes, this think is OK/No, this thing is not OK".
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How exactly is anyone besides Mathilde going to ever use this? Theurgy is something most every cult and god is against. There's no way Mathilde is going to convince any Order faction to use her methods when even the knowledge of how Mathilde figured this out could be cause for civil war.
 
So people keep bringing up the whole "Don't" thing as an argument not to do this.

Does anyone really thing that if this was anywhere near that scale of bad that he'd have already stopped us?

Do people arguing for faith think that our God doesn't see what we're doing and couldn't tell us to stop when ever he wanted?

To me the whole "Don't" thing was pretty clearly to stop Mathilde driving herself insane, not him taking offence. Its the conclusion Mathilde herself came to in this update.
 
We already are in AP hell, but some of the potential upsides that are already mentioned by other posters that this could lead to are just to tempting. And that's not even counting all the birds that might be hiding in bushes that we might find when Mathilde goes down this path.

I see absolutely no betrayal of Ranald in this, but if this ever puts us in conflict with Him I believe that I will vote to abort this research, depending on the circumstances at that time. I'm just not seeing the relationship with Him being one of advance obedience where we stop whatever cool stuff that we are doing because it might potentially be something he doesn't 100% agree with.

[x] Truth
 
More to point we will most likely vote to go after which gods so we can start with stromfels and khaine to see what it is like.

Then we can decide to wheter focus on this or not. But take the Fate option and it is gone forever.
 
DragonParadox said:
Mathilde was trained a wizard of the grey order, she was trained in their methods and in their way of seeing the world... you can see that just last update where she was dissecting god stuff. The question before us is are we going to let piety rob us of the results of the study we have already made? the motion that Mahilde's piety eclipses all else does not stand up to the scrutiny of what she just did and how she did it. There is a part of her that wants to vote truth... and that part of her is the wizard seeking secrets.
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How is Faith robbing us the results of the study we have already made? What are the results that we are loosing? Faith is selecting a different result for our study, not abolishing it: it does probably finish this particular line of research though.
The closest option to be being 'robbed' is Prudence, which itself is not so much being robbed but an acknowledgment that the stakes are too high for the potential gains.
 
Derpmind said:
How exactly is anyone besides Mathilde going to ever use this? Theurgy is something most every cult and god is against. There's no way Mathilde is going to convince any Order faction to use her methods when even the knowledge of how Mathilde figured this out could be cause for civil war.
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The same way they do anything with knowledge that's very dangerous classify so those outside of the colleges never learn of it and only allow those who need to know have a handle on it. Compartmentalising information is something the colleges excel at, frankly almost to well.
 
VoiceOfTheRiders said:
How is Faith robbing us the results of the study we have already made? What are the results that we are loosing? Faith is selecting a different result for our study, not abolishing it: it does probably finish this particular line of research though.
The closest option to be being 'robbed' is Prudence, which itself is not so much being robbed but an acknowledgment that the stakes are too high for the potential gains.
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Well it robs us of the academic results of this here academic study. No amount of Ranald head pats will make up for that because they are qualitatively different.
 
Don't get me wrong. I'm voting to investigate this.

I just find it fascinating to have the means to fake it for the actual priests.
 
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