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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I don't think we'd ever really reach Nagash kind of things against the Gods, even if do we know how to use Dhar, have access to multiple Winds, and divine energy. As IC she has no real reason to be against them on a personal level save for Sigmar, but even then he's much more useful in helping them survive and thrive.
 
Codex said:
Stealing the Divine Energies of the Gods of Order sounds like a monumentally stupid idea that would get us killed. Except the danger isn't my primary concern. I'm fine with stealing from the Chaos Gods if I think we have a decent chance of getting away with it, and the Gods of Order are weaker so maybe it's possible. It's the moral ramifications of doing this to our allies who keep the world going. I don't want Mathilde to step over that line.
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There's no stealing of divine energies from the gods, AV explicitly provides the energy that's the whole point.

Also AV turning into god stuff is exactly what I predicted, so called it.
 
DragonParadox said:
More than that, I do not think the high priests of the gods necessarily have high learning or an academic mindset. We could find out things even they do not know.
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Things that if the Gods wanted their followers to know, They would have said already (which Mathilde herself acknowledges in the post.) This is absolutely 'forbidden knowledge' and 'burned for heresy' territory. Hell, given it's the gods themselves who'd be the most pissed, this could land squarely in the 'smite for insolence' zone.
 
Yeah, for all intents and purposes, this just opened up "Divine Study without actually needing a God involved". Which was ultimately the big barrier in the way because there's a certain agreement in place that nobody wants a repeat of Nehekara.

Again and remember. The line was drawn at poking Ranald the entity, this is strictly within that line--and if he wanted us to drop this, he'd make it very clear with abrupt speed.
 
So for me the big question is would Ranald have issue with us stealing secrets from Gods and Cults, especially since He might be numbered among them. That for me is the deciding factor between Truth and Faith. I don't particularly want prudence.
 
Well, at least when it comes to forbidden secrets, this is less dangerous to delve into then Mathilde's other major option.

Just, you know, make sure we don't take any photos of the Ruinous Powers. That sounds like a corruption vector.
 
Silver719 said:
Things that if the Gods wanted their followers to know, They would have said already (which Mathilde herself acknowledges in the post.) This is absolutely 'forbidden knowledge' and 'burned for heresy' territory. Hell, given it's the gods themselves who'd be the most pissed, this could land squarely in the 'smite for insolence' zone.
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Not necessarily, the gods do not communicate very clearly or easily and direct divine revelation has a way of driving people mad.
 
Like, I have no doubt that Ranald is perfectly aware of what's going on, with how much attention he pays to Mathilde. And while there's a certain symbolism to offering up proof that we accidentally stole something from Ranald himself, there's also the fact that Mathilde has a bad habit of stealing from gods, and that has only ever earned her favor.

Honestly I'm leaning towards Truth, but Faith wouldn't be a loss for me.
 
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It's votes like this that make me glad I don't vote in this quest. Far too difficult to chose, and the thread will likely go bananas at some point.
 
Well we know what Ranald would choose certainly, but we may be a friend but we are not him.

I cant imagine us stealing from our girlfriend for example.

Ranald is practically the God of stealing from the gods, but friends and enemies are... different.

Aranfan said:
OH BOY, 'ERE WE GO!

I say we go on a divinity collecting spree.

for science
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Ranald almost certainly approves this message.

For science isnt really a great reason though. Given time one will reveal itself.

@Boney Does this mean we successfully stole from Ranald :V
 
[ ] Faith

As much as I wish to take truth, Ranald is our oldest friend. You don't go behind your friends back like that.

Besides, if Ranald thinks this has promise, he will tell us once he sees this.

Boney wouldn't offer identical options. Faith will result in something different than Prudence.
 
Hell, we already have already access to… what, two other sources of divinity? Gazul and the moon god altar? Any more I'm forgetting?
 
I'd say at this point we really need more information to make a more final decision, but at this point, we are more figuring out what ways we could and how if it is at all possible.
 
Garlak said:
... I think I prefer to choose Faith.

Because, well, let's keep in mind; choosing Faith doesn't mean abandoning research, power, and knowledge. Instead, it's about choosing to deal with the gods as gods, as a lay priest or priest or mystic. And as a bonus, it means less risk of offending the Gods or the Cults who hold divine secrets and mysteries.

Somebody once pointed out when we were voting for post-Dum traits to get, that Theologian and Mystic were probably obverse sides of the same coin, right? That Mystic wasn't a dead-end path that meant you wouldn't pursue a research tree; instead, rather, the Mystic trait meant that you would pursue a research tree as a person of faith. That it meant dealing with the Gods as Gods; imo a good example of the sort of thing you might be able to pull off? Would be like the theft of Mork's/Gork's power back in Karag Nar.

So, I say we pursue this research as a faithful of Ranald, rather than as a Wizard.

((... To clarify, I mean the Vitae+Divine research we pursue as a faithful of Ranald. We can, and should, still pursue other parts of the Vitae research tree as a Wizard. Such as, for example, seeing if we could use it to empower enchanting or turn it into powerstones or something.))

Ranald is our oldest friend, and has given us a big-name artifact of his. And we have a decent Piety score. And we pulled off a strange act of whatever-it-was in Karag Nar. I want to get our Friend's attention to this, and see what he gives us for this in return.

I think the choice and path of Faith is the way to do that.

I think Faith is the way to discover the ways to do that.

And I want to be the one to blaze that trail.
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Ranald: Hey, Mathilde, it would be soooo cash money if you could get me Slaanesh's divine signature without It noticing.
DragonParadox said:
Not necessarily, the gods do not communicate very clearly or easily and direct divine revelation has a way of driving people mad.
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Well, we can probably get a simple 'yes' or 'no' from Ranald after, ya know, showing Him what happened.
 
Boney said:
the Taalweit
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Pretty sure it's the Taalwelt not the Taalweit. Also:
Boney said:
You roll the crystal in your hand. Doing this once is curiousity and ignorance. But doing it again? That would be a declaration of war against the secrecy of the Gods and the Cults. One they might not realize you have made, but if they ever do...

But they might not, not if you're clever and careful. And through collection and careful study you might be able to achieve an understanding of the Gods that perhaps only They can currently boast.
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Mathilde explicitly says that this is a "declaration of war" and her internal monologue explicitly mentions that she "might not get found out". This seems to imply that if the Gods find out, they will declare war on her. Not just the Cults, the Gods themselves.

You can tell yourself pretty little lies like "this isn't stealing" to sooth your morality all you want, but even Mathilde realises that doing this is war. It's not some silly little research that only high ranking priests would care about. The Gods and anyone who is remotely pious would vouch for her death for doing it. She is actively thinking of methods of taking a God's fingerprint without their consent. No matter how you phrase it, that is nonconsensual analysis of an individual. We know Ranald, he isn't just a blob of info you can poke and prod, he's a person. Incomprehensible and vastly more than anything else, but there is no realistic way I could ever bring myself to dehumanise him enought o say that taking his fingerprint without his consent isn't a form of stealing and violation above anything Mathilde has ever done to a person she likes.

I could justify it with Gork and Mork because they were puppeting her body and they would have actively tried to kill everyone in her army in a war situation, but there is no way I can justify this.
 
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