Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Brazil
One has to consider the other side of it too: believing people are being fully honest isn't exactly a novel feeling for people whom are highly experienced at reading people, thus used to knowing when someone has bared their secrets or is trying to lie or deceive.
One can say beliving Mathilde might send warning bells, but at the same time one has to consider that her being entirely honest was always a possibility.
The Coin makes people belive you are entirely sincere, even if you aren't entirely correct. Unless whomever was doing a theoretical inquisition had never believed her innocence a possibility, the Coin should not raise any warning flags at all, because they simply arrived at one of the possible solutions to the case.
That's the key toabusing it: we need to tell lies which could be believed.
The Coin shouldn't be triggering paranoid people left and right because it only makes them think Mathilde is being honest, no more and no less. It doesn't warp one's world view, it gives you a Bluff score of Yes.
One can say beliving Mathilde might send warning bells, but at the same time one has to consider that her being entirely honest was always a possibility.
The Coin makes people belive you are entirely sincere, even if you aren't entirely correct. Unless whomever was doing a theoretical inquisition had never believed her innocence a possibility, the Coin should not raise any warning flags at all, because they simply arrived at one of the possible solutions to the case.
That's the key to
The Coin shouldn't be triggering paranoid people left and right because it only makes them think Mathilde is being honest, no more and no less. It doesn't warp one's world view, it gives you a Bluff score of Yes.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Hardly, it's a perfect instant autosuccess on any lie to anyone not a high Intrigue character. You need a rare combination of self awareness (a depressingly rare thing) and a sufficiently suspicious mind to maybe turn the Coin into a problem instead of a benefit.
It's just not completely OP is all.
This is bang on.
- Location
- Earth
That's not how any of that works. Yes, "The Coin causes them to believe that we are not lying", but when you put that against someone properly paranoid their thought process isn't going to be "Divine Magic I didn't notice", the first thought it going to be: "That's either the truth, or that Magister is a better liar than I am at reading her." And for a Grey Magister, it makes sense. People will believe the Grey Magister is great at lies. So nothing new. We're just better at it than we used to be, and that might get noticed if used on the Colledge.
Oh for heaven's sake, we got an amazing teaser that had me all pumped up for some epic dwarf action, and here you are people beating the dead horse again, and wasting page after page arguing about that damned book.
You guys are making me wish that qm enacted a moratorium on the book and related discussion.
In other news, I think I like this King of Karak Azul, he knows well the power of Hype.
I laughed out loud at the palpable derision with which he said ink.
Also, bring your best axe sounds awfully like bring your best clothes, which I imagine was the intent.
I approve.
You guys are making me wish that qm enacted a moratorium on the book and related discussion.
In other news, I think I like this King of Karak Azul, he knows well the power of Hype.
I laughed out loud at the palpable derision with which he said ink.
Also, bring your best axe sounds awfully like bring your best clothes, which I imagine was the intent.
I approve.
- Location
- Canada (eh)
"The Deceiver: Lies you have developed beforehand will be delivered perfectly. The listener may believe you to be mistaken, but they will never believe that you are lying. Cannot be used to tell truths."
I don't think your interpretation is correct, especially as it explicitly states the opposite in the description. Worst case they think we're mistaken but not matter how paranoid they dont get to think we're lying.
Paranoia < Divine magic
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- Location
- yorkshire
vote tally
Y'know something, I kinda think we should tell The Whole Story (slightly edited, maybe we noticed the energies swirling around the statue instead of being possessed by them) to Kragg the Grim because despite him almost certainly being extremely disapproving of our recklessness, nobody can deny that the intersection of Kragg's vast knowledge and all the juicy implications of the whole shebang would be Incredibly interesting.
Priests does whatever exactly they do with the help of their gods. Which is why they are called priests. If priest power is linked with normal magic, it's called sorcery. Demons have undiferentiated magic (it was mentioned in thread), but given they serve their gods they may fall in the same category as priest. Long story short, no mortal in WH casts the spells using magic that is not split into winds of magic and not linked to divine.
Well, outside of greenskin shamans. But that is another story.
You want us to tell the rune-lord who already dislikes us that we know about the dwarfs' greatest shame? That is how we get kicked out of the expedition, or if Belagar does not do that (which I am inclined to belive he will not), Kragg leaves and takes a good bit of support with him.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So, so we're all on the same page, why do people think Orcs streaming from the other peaks to the Citadel is an attack Greenskin vs Greenskin?
I may be misremembering but I think that there was something on how the Citadel was the actual headquarters of the Black Orcs?
I may be misremembering but I think that there was something on how the Citadel was the actual headquarters of the Black Orcs?
- Location
- Canada (eh)
Well the obvious solution to finding out what it does is to drink a refreshing glass of snake juice every day with breakfast and record any observations (such as blowing up, changing color and mutations). For science.
Also
[X] This wealth is the future of Karak Eight Peaks. Stay here with the Hoard.
- Location
- Brazil
You missed the point. A "combination of self awareness and a sufficiently suspicious mind" is not enough.
Because it does not twist people's perceptions.
It's the difference between casting Charm Person on the target and drinking a Potion of Glibness.
Every Necromancer that has ever lived uses True Dhar, which is magic which is not split into the Winds. As do all the dark elf sorcerers using black magic. And (apparently) the Clan Skyre warlock engineers and Clan Eshin assassins as they cast using warpstone.
Plenty of people use undifferentiated magic as well/instead of the Winds. Perhaps the majority of spellcasters in the Warhammer do. The problem is that the only type of undifferentiated magic virtually everyone has access to is True Dhar, which is corrupt. The only humans we know who are exceptions are Mathilde with the snake juice and (probably) Elsbeth von Draken, with the ashes of a dead god she has.
The snake wasn't a daemon but was a creature of undifferentiated magic so we know such things exist.
The energy of the geomantic web that the Slann can use may be undifferentiated magic as well, given that it existed before the Winds.
Because they're not only heading towards the Citadel, they're also pouring from Grobi-town in the valley to go into Karag Rhyn, which is where we know Skarsnik, Chosen of Only Mork just got shanked.
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cokerpilot
Here comes the rain.
You know I am getting really tired of seeing this comment. There have been a few quests and stories where this line makes some sense via in character or story logic on but even then the phrase it's self is still wrong. Not only is hilariously arrogant but it also blatantly false. Knowing that there are limits to what one can do and not having endless pride in oneself is not cowardice it's common sense. It's even more ridiculous in a setting where the gods are in fact an active force and can and will either smackdown or string along with anyone stupid enough to try to toy with them without either their own divine back or major amounts of prep work and/or luck. As for you people who voted for the Ranald option the last vote and posted it... That was our character putting all of her faith in said God's ability to handle the situation and not us. Which is basically the opposite of Hubris.
- Location
- Canada
I have new wrinkle to add, stumbled upon courtesy of some rereading.
Underlined for emphasis.
Mathilde has already perused the "Liber Mortis", and would be lying if she claimed she hadn't.
Underlined for emphasis.
Mathilde has already perused the "Liber Mortis", and would be lying if she claimed she hadn't.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
They will not think that we are lying, but a high Intrigue person might be able to notice that something is messing with his mind, specifically with their ability to think of what we told them as a lie. They will still not believe that we have lied because divine magic, but they will know that something about that belief is not natural. From there, considering what is being meddled with, the likely source is apparent.
- Location
- Brazil
You almost got it. The magic of it (heh) is that, when they get to "That's either the truth, or that Magister is a better liar than I am at reading her", the coin makes us so mindbogingly good at lying that we fake enough sincerity that it's followed by "but if that ain't god's honest truth, I don't know what is".
Our skill at faking sincerity is divinely good: we seem so honest that there's no room left for suspicion. And the genius of it is that it doesn't matter how good at reading people or how paranoid the other party is, the very nature of the deception makes it foolproof in that "but wait a minute!" sense.
The key is to not let any ironclad evidence which conflicts with the lie create a dissonance that'd lead the other party to think we've been deceived or are crazy. Because even with conflicting evidence, they "cannot deny the sincerity they saw in our eyes".
I think it's a bit meta, that the Good and Dramatic vote means Global Greenskin Civil War, and all other observations of their movements, but "localized greenskin civil war" seems very plausible.
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- Location
- Derna
As a person reading the quest for the first time, I can attest to how hilarious it was to see the same book argument in progress right before the hiatus started, then see the quest come back and the post dates all jump forward a year with the same people picking up essentially where they left off. Truly it transcends time and space.
- Location
- Norway
Why do you think so?