The project is not under her authority, the location is, that's the point I was making, there's only so far she can go before Mathilde can just say. "Well I'm off to work with Kislev, have a good one!" and Mathilde loses a lot less than she does in that scenario. That's why I called Mathilde the stronger partner. Obviously like you said she's not an idiot that's going to tank her credibility by chasing off an enterprise she invested a good bit of her legitimacy into, and neither is Mathilde interested in wasting time and goodwill doing that unnecessarily, so they'll both work to find accommodation with each-other, but the matter of where the leverage lies still exists.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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The project is not under her authority, the location is, that's the point I was making, there's only so far she can go before Mathilde can just say. "Well I'm off to work with Kislev, have a good one!" and Mathilde loses a lot less than she does in that scenario. That's why I called Mathilde the stronger partner. Obviously like you said she's not an idiot that's going to tank her credibility by chasing off an enterprise she invested a good bit of her legitimacy into, and neither is Mathilde interested in wasting time and goodwill doing that unnecessarily, so they'll both work to find accommodation with each-other, but the matter of where the leverage lies still exists.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Hmm. Going back to the earlier discussion about Ranald and the story of the arrival of Chaos…. Perhaps while the other gods were fighting Ranald snuck off to get help? After all the idea for the vortex came from somewhere… and it seems like the kind of thing Ranald would do - a gamble that will either end everything or save it at the last moment.
NeonLights
Formerly Reliable_2IC
- Location
- In shambles
If we need a second take, we aren't going to get sweetheart deals like the first time. Confidence in the projects success will tank, and we'll get all the blame for it's failure. But I don't think it will come to that thankfully. We're making good headway, and she's most likely going carrot over stick. I just think I'd rather pull my own teeth than try to engender good will and sympathy from someone who has done the political equivalent of smoking an opp pack. Ok, I have a bad habit of drawing historical comparisons as a shorthand. But it's clear we got pointed here because she didn't like them and wanted to paper over their legacy.
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Probably referring to either Karag Dum or the latest Belegar and Thorgrim interlude, where Thorgrim shows that he has reactivated an ancient work of the Ancestor Gods; the eyes that monitor the pass.
So, Mathilde might now knows that the Eonir can sense if/when the Dwarfs are doing something with their Waystone network. Depends on if she slots that comment in as "Was he referring to Vlag? Or did the Dwarfs actually do something?" But if/when Mathilde actually hears news about what Thorgrim was up to and revealed in his meeting with the other Dwarf Kings and Queen, then she might conclude it's the "the Dwarfs actually do something" option.
Which also means that that'll be something the Dwarfs will be interested in hearing about and knowing. Namely, that the Elves can sense if the Waystone Network is accessed or somebody does something with it.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
I think that the answer to this question... is Yes.
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No, it's canon.
Probably would have made her very knowledgeable about theology in general.
Every Grey Wizard probably has a different answer to that question.
Stirlanders are very standoffish to strangers but warm to members of their own community, which is a pretty sensible way to be when you live next to Sylvania. It's open to interpretation whether he bounced off them and is being sarcastic, or he managed to worm his way in and was being genuine.
As long as she speaks about liminal spaces in general and not the one that Grey College lives in specifically, it doesn't touch on College secrets to fill Thorek in on what they are and how they work if necessary.
She's ruled for a few centuries, but she's still thought to by young by the standards of Elven royalty. She's only the fourth ruler Laurelorn has had since it was founded, meaning the previous three averaged about two millennia of rule apiece.
That sort of wordplay is built into Eltharin. Basic communication in Eltharin is making sure it's clear which meaning of a word you mean by context, advanced communication in Eltharin is picking your words so that multiple meanings are correct at once. Someone with Eltharin as their native language would be constantly comparing new names they encounter against an internal lexicon, because the standard way to greet someone is to construct a sentence around their name that works as a greeting and also packs in the sort of secondary meanings you want to use, whether they be complimentary or belittling or teasing or contradictory or carefully neutral.
They can, they're typically beardless by culture, not by nature. Female Elves generally can't, their sexual dimorphism is about the same as humans, but they could probably figure out a way to do so with magic if they wanted to.
There are a lot of stereotypes about the different provinces, and while most of them are cultural, there are physical traits that can give hints to the observant about where someone is from. These have mostly disappeared from the more cosmopolitan provinces like Reikland, Wissenland and Talabecland, but Stirland is fairly insular and Stirlanders do tend to be dark-haired and shorter than average.
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- Location
- Florida
I can't believe I've failed to comprehend before this moment that elves are smug assholes not purely because of their sense of superiority, expertise with magic, etc etc, but because their language is built from the ground up to be puns all the way down. That takes a special kind of smug assholery.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Eltharin is a beast of a language. I mean, sure, a lot of words in English have multiple meanings, but almost all words in Eltharin have entire goddamn character arcs.
Codex
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I know people have brought up similarities between Kragg (in the beginning, he's changed since then) and Hatalath, and there is some merit to that. Hatalath seems to have been cooped up for an incredibly long time, and clearly he's got a great wealth of theoretical knowledge and power from honing his craft for thousands of years, and I do think a meeting between them would be interesting.
But. The person we brought along was not Kragg the Grim, we brought Thorek Ironbrow. And that can be just as interesting.
I will not say that Thorek is as knowledgable or as powerful as Hatalath, I know that isn't the case. Unfortunately Thorek has a huge disadvantage being so goddamn young in comparison. However, he is one of the best and most powerful Runelords in the modern day Karaz Ankor, and despite all that has happened to the kingdom over the millenia, that is not to be underestimated.
Another important factor is the interplay between a Kragg like figure like Hatalath who locked himself up in a pocket dimension for thousands of years vs a relatively young 400+ year old Dwarf who's been spending nearly every waking moment of his life dedicated to the active pursuit of his craft. Thorek isn't some theoretical physicist or a cooped up researcher. He spends almost every moment going around, learning new things, rediscovering old lore and artifacts, fighting for the Karaz Ankor, teaching his students, experimenting and changing the world every day. He is powered by the desperation and desire to restore the glory of the Karaz Ankor, and that weight can drive someone to unbelievable heights.
I'm very interested to have the two meet, and honestly? I actually prefer having Thorek along. Thorek rings to me as somewhat similar to Mathilde in motives and methods, although he's much more careful and methodical than she is but I chalk that up to lifespan differences.
But. The person we brought along was not Kragg the Grim, we brought Thorek Ironbrow. And that can be just as interesting.
I will not say that Thorek is as knowledgable or as powerful as Hatalath, I know that isn't the case. Unfortunately Thorek has a huge disadvantage being so goddamn young in comparison. However, he is one of the best and most powerful Runelords in the modern day Karaz Ankor, and despite all that has happened to the kingdom over the millenia, that is not to be underestimated.
Another important factor is the interplay between a Kragg like figure like Hatalath who locked himself up in a pocket dimension for thousands of years vs a relatively young 400+ year old Dwarf who's been spending nearly every waking moment of his life dedicated to the active pursuit of his craft. Thorek isn't some theoretical physicist or a cooped up researcher. He spends almost every moment going around, learning new things, rediscovering old lore and artifacts, fighting for the Karaz Ankor, teaching his students, experimenting and changing the world every day. He is powered by the desperation and desire to restore the glory of the Karaz Ankor, and that weight can drive someone to unbelievable heights.
I'm very interested to have the two meet, and honestly? I actually prefer having Thorek along. Thorek rings to me as somewhat similar to Mathilde in motives and methods, although he's much more careful and methodical than she is but I chalk that up to lifespan differences.
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To be more precise, he is definitely there with Kragg in top two, with everybody else so below them they don't even register, and in some things he is better then Kragg by Kragg's own admission:
IIRC it was mentioned that Thorek is 800 years old. Am I misremembering?
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Codex
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I don't think there is a mention of Thorek's exact age. He is a Living Ancestor, which means older than 400 years, but I don't think there's any mention of his exact age anywhere in either DL or canon. All we know is that he's young enough that the 1500 year old Kragg considers him a young'un, which is a wide range.
- Location
- Aotearoa
One might also think those lifespan differences can be chalked up to being more careful and methodical...
- Location
- Australia
For some reason the quote this was responding to was attributed to me.
I do not think Hedi wants to visit the magic elf woods filled with very watchful elves. Keep in mind her position and likely her life depend on not being revealed for what she is. There are likely quite a few people with Mathilde grade witch sight around without Mathilde's reasons for now snitching, Not that I think they would blurt it out, but I do not think the Eonir are above blackmail if it is to their benefit.
Codex
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I actually find this funny when compared to Ulthuan's Phoenix Kings. So, I'm actually going to go on a quick binge of exactly how many years each Phoenix King of Ulthuan ruled just to show the difference here:
Aenarion the Defender: 80 years
Bel Shanaar the Explorer: 1670 years
Caledor the Conqueror: 552 years
Caledor II the "Warrior": 600 years
Caradryel the Peacemaker: 604 years
Tethlis the Slayer: 306 years
Bel Khordaris the Scholar King: 1190 years
Aethis the Poet: 623 years
Morvael the Impeteous: 383 years
Bel Hathor the Sage: 661 years
Finubar the Seafarer: Became King 2163 IC so his reign is around 324 years at this point
A point I want to mention is that you can subtract one year from each of the Phoenix King's reigns, because the process of election takes one year and it counts as the final year of the previous Phoenix King's rule.
Another important point as to why Ulthuan's rulers don't live as long: most of them don't die of old age. Aenarion died in battle, Bel Shanaar, Caledor I and Aethis were assassinated by Druchii. Caledor II was killed in a duel by Gotrek Starbreaker. Tethlis' death was either at the hands of an assassin or one of his guards after he was about to wield the Sword of Khaine. Morvael committed suicide after Mentheus of Caledor's death.
The only Ulthuan rulers to die of old age were Caradryel, Bel Khordaris and Bel Hathor. It truly sucks to be Phoenix King.
All right, I found this:
My first reaction is wha-a-at? He is so young, not even Living Ancestor yet, and yet a most likely better runesmith than Kragg just because he goes out of his way to re-discover, learn and restore old lost knowledge?
@Boney, is Thorek insanely talented (most talented Runelord since Alaric the Mad?) and/or lucky and it's only his thing, or could other Runelords, especially ones older than Thorek, be much better if they adopted more of his ways?
If they could and do not, I'm now even more convinced that his way is the right way and 100% behind him in his ambitions for breaking and re-forging Runesmithing Guild.
The secret of his success is yoloing into fallen Dwarfholds at the head of a Kazador-trained Throng and looting ancient forgotten secrets by the cartful. He's actually pretty average at pure Kragg-style R&D, which is why he doesn't really do much of it and why his signature Rune is still in its prototype phase.
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Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
…So basically the same way Mathilde got some of her biggest and nastiest toys. That makes sense.
Codex
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I can't imagine that he has a lot of time for research and development with how ridiculously active he is. Going on expeditions to recover lost lore and assist his fellow Dwarves, teaching dozens of apprentices, creating dozens of items for the Karaz Ankor for their expeditions and military campaigns and getting himself involved in the political climate, trying to gauge who his allies and enemies are and identifying the levers he needs to pull to change the guild....
He must have a hellish AP problem, even with his long lifespan.
Oh gods he's an adventurer.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Morr letting things die is literally his job description, which is why he is opposed to the honest work necromancers do.
Now, you're right that including Shallya on that list was wrong as she doesn't actually have a choice in the matter. But going by at least one legend she only heals one person at a time since, if she ever went all out, nothing would die anymore.
She's like a Mega-Mathilde in that regard. Forced to do as much good as she can chained by the rules of her local authority figures.
- Location
- Australia
How does looting ancient forgotten runic secrets work, by the by? I know runesmiths don't write down their knowledge. Is it simply a matter of finding runes and copying them?
Unknown. The Runesmiths are understandably pretty secretive about how one goes about reverse-engineering Runesmithing.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
It just that most elves are older than shakespeare would be if he was still alive today and their language has a similar amount of linguistics drift as ours has, but unlike our languages the old meanings don't go away.
For example Mathilde means "battle mighty weaver". But if we manage to get enough rep with the elves that word is likely to take on new meanings. With elves of the future saying "You are such a Mathilde".
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