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That 'again' is interesting. It's not as if the dwaves weren't using their section of the Waystone network before, as it was powering the Runes of Valaya and had been doing from the start, so what was the previous time that the dwarves messed around with their Waystone network about?

Possible long shot Karag Dum hint? Or something else entirely?

The 'again' likely refers to Vlag being connected soon after K8P.

From a millennia old elf perspective the events are pretty close together.
 
In my eyes, the shape of the sea being an elf construct rather than a natural feature makes it more likely to be linked to Asuryan, not less.
I'd argue it's less likely, because it means there's no argument of "Asuryan put it there, it must be linked to him". Whereas "This is the optimal shape for the Vortex to work" is a pretty good reason, without bringing religion into it. Indeed, until you'd brought it up, I'd always assumed that the islands were that shape because it looks like the center of a stylised whirlpool.
 
Ah, I'm so proud of Mathilde! She knows what a Conifer is! Either she's been studying up on trees, she's picked it up from Panoramia osmosis, or she learnt it from casual conversation with Laurelorn elves.


do you think elves talk about trees the same way British people talk about the weather?

no one truly cares anymore, but it's something to say.

Love how much Mathilde is trying to impress Marrisith. Really feels like a kid in school trying to impress their teacher and show them how much they've learned. I'm also very pleasantly surprised to see all the indications here and beyond about how... unguarded? Marrisith feels. She doesn't put much effort in putting on airs and masks. A lot of her reactions seem genuine. Maybe this is a deliberate tactic to mislead and she's actually pretending, but I'd like to think she just figured there was no reason to pretend to be someone she's not and she's just being unfiltered with Mathilde.

I'm really starting to like Marrisith. So many neat little character moments for her in this update.

Another example of her being somewhat unguarded in her expressiosns. Maybe she just feels comfortable around Hatalath, since he did lift her up with a hug.

one thing about Marrisith is that she is actually described as very young for an elf queen in 4ed.

and that's set in the future from now, she really might be the elf equivalent of an 18-year-old right now.

He recognised that Mathilde was a Stirlander, primarily by comparing her to the Asoborn. Are the features of a Stirlander that distinctive, or did they just not change in general features over thousands of years? I suppose the Asoborn were some of the more insular of the pre imperial tribes. Mathilde's family was also pretty rural, so I assume that contributed to her looking distinctly... Stirlandish.

I really do think that was a stealth Jab: if he knows about the 3 emperors then he problem knows what a Stirlander is, and that they are grumpy and short.

the actual definition of Sarcasm.
 
do you think elves talk about trees the same way British people talk about the weather?

no one truly cares anymore, but it's something to say.
Could have been even more casual than that. Something like "past a ring of waystones the trees turn darker and coniferous. That's the edges of the Dreaming Wood" or something like that. Mathilde said that she learnt this information from artists, and she was making conversation with them by complimenting their work and asking about their fields of interest. I imagine some of them would be the type to go on long descriptions about how vibrant and spiky the tree's needles are.
one thing about Marrisith is that she is actually described as very young for an elf queen in 4ed.

and that's set in the future from now, she really might be the elf equivalent of an 18-year-old right now.
Her mannerisms do strike me as that of a relatively young elf, particularly her confusion over a few things and the tangents she goes on. Maybe she sees talking to Mathilde as a way to shed the "layers" of protective casing she puts on herself on her duty of ruling and be a child again, since Mathilde is pretty young. Maybe she feels the kinship of a person with a great responsibility dumped on them and having to act like she knows what she's doing even though she doesn't, and trying her best to make it work and change things.
 
Her mannerisms do strike me as that of a relatively young elf, particularly her confusion over a few things and the tangents she goes on. Maybe she sees talking to Mathilde as a way to shed the "layers" of protective casing she puts on herself on her duty of ruling and be a child again, since Mathilde is pretty young. Maybe she feels the kinship of a person with a great responsibility dumped on them and having to act like she knows what she's doing even though she doesn't, and trying her best to make it work and change things.
I think that is far to much projecting what we want from her, rather than what she has shown.

I think she is quite young, and maybe a bit childish/young adult.

but that's not always a good thing, gleefully jumping up and down on the political corpses of the dead House Elwyn by letting the humans live in their ancestral home is quite 'youthful' in a way as well.

lets keep care not to assume the best from every character we like from the first interaction, this is the political drama arc as much as the research arc.
 
I think that is far to much projecting what we want from her, rather than what she has shown.

I think she is quite young, and maybe a bit childish/young adult.

but that's not always a good thing, gleefully jumping up and down on the political corpses of the dead House Elwyn by letting the humans live in their ancestral home is quite 'youthful' in a way as well.

lets keep care not to assume the best from every character we like from the first interaction, this is the political drama arc as much as the research arc.
I think it's cute that she's jumping up and down over the corpses of her political opponents. I could stand to see more of that.
 
I think it's cute that she's jumping up and down over the corpses of her political opponents. I could stand to see more of that.
I'm just pointing out that 'Maybe she feels the kinship of a person[Mathy]' is assuming a lot from a handful of interactions

its not like we have tortured someone together or retaken a dwarfhold for her.

we are very much 'patron and person I've hired to fix my lawn ornaments... my deamon stoping lawn ornaments, true, but that doesn't make me want to invite them to a sleepover.'
 
I see, so the Grey Lords are still alive! Or are they? :thonk:

Anyway, seems they've merely been on an extended research sabbatical all this time. Truly something to envy.

"I had thought the Lords Thanan would be joining us for this effort."

"You know them, they're always happy to visit but they want to disappear home as soon as the sun kisses the horizon.
The Lords Thanan for one seem like they might have at least a couple of projects requiring the border between night and day.
 
I think it's cute that she's jumping up and down over the corpses of her political opponents. I could stand to see more of that.
You do realize that we might be next on the chopping block? We're being middle management for a woman who in a move that makes a hostile takeover look like smalltime, turned a families' ancestral home and seat of power into a proverbial doghouse. I'm not loosing my cool and I'm grateful for the support, but her willing and able to play that fast and hard does not bode well for our ability to run interference for the Waystone Project.
 
Whilst we're not best friends forever (yet), Marrisith's attitude does indicate that she feels comfortable being casual and informal around Mathilde. There could be lots of reasons for that. Maybe it's a form of arrogance, and she sees us as like a puppy or something. Maybe she does feel some kinship. Maybe she sees us as a neutral outsider disconnected from the politics she interacts with every day (and considering she all but said that a major house is regularly accused of being slaanesh cultists, I'm betting it's fairly cutthroat as well).

Note that she didn't change her behaviour when Hatalath appeared, but the first time we met her, with Kadoh, she felt very regal and rehearsed. Compare the formality of this line:

"And the clever disciple of my very clever cousin," she says, turning her gaze to you. "I have heard good things from several quarters, some of them not prone to agreement with the others. That you fought and bled for two very old families and laid rest to very old shames. And those that listen to the Waystones say that when you reclaimed the last of the peaks for the line of Angrund, they awoke and rejoined a network that had only shrunk since the time when Laurelorn was the Eleventh Kingdom of Ulthuan."

to casual tone in this line:

"Lady Magister," she replies. "Mmm. Sounds almost like ladroi nastirr. There used to be a temple by that name - a well-regarded, hmm, let's say a house of worship dedicated to Atharti. I believe you know Her as Vylmar."

The first is a carefully constructed bit of diplomacy, giving both praise and her expectations for us jointly. The second is idle, irrelevant chatter about a fairly racy topic.

Very different attitudes.

I think they are both facets of her personality, and that when we're dealing with political stuff we should expect Queen Marrisith, and when we are dealing with personal or magic stuff we should expect Mischievous Marrisith—although there may be some crossover.

She reaches out towards you and a wisp of spray from Rainbow Falls answers the gesture, abandoning the pull of Ulgu to entwine around her finger. "Ulgu. Legend has it that it was the first Wind that Hoeth mastered, as His confusion at the Winds drew it to Him. A good omen." She smiles briefly, a flash of genuine amusement that disappears in a heartbeat.
 
You do realize that we might be next on the chopping block? We're being middle management for a woman who in a move that makes a hostile takeover look like smalltime, turned a families' ancestral home and seat of power into a proverbial doghouse. I'm not loosing my cool and I'm grateful for the support, but her willing and able to play that fast and hard does not bode well for our ability to run interference for the Waystone Project.
and that's to far the other way, maybe that is totally how politics works here, and she would have seem weak if she didn't do something like that,

we need more data points to get a real read on her, is what I'm saying.
 
I'm just pointing out that 'Maybe she feels the kinship of a person[Mathy]' is assuming a lot from a handful of interactions

its not like we have tortured someone together or retaken a dwarfhold for her.

we are very much 'patron and person I've hired to fix my lawn ornaments... my deamon stoping lawn ornaments, true, but that doesn't make me want to invite them to a sleepover.'
First, the word "Kinship" as I use here means a "sharing of characteristics or origins". You do not need to be close to a person at all to feel kinship with them.

Second, I don't see how her making a political statement that could be seen as quite brutal detracts with my point. I'm merely stating that Queen Marrisith's conduct with Mathilde would be quite unprofessional for the kind of relationship you're presenting. If Marrisith wanted to create a clear demarcation in conduct between herself and Mathilde, she would present a facade of control and dominance. She wouldn't be showing impatience, annoyance, frustration, brittle smiles or confusion. All of those things convey weakness and opportunity. If Marrisith felt Mathilde was an opponent, she would not present such things to her. My interpretation of the reason for her presenting such a wide variety of emotions and expressions is that she doesn't view Mathilde as an opponent, and she knows that the most efficient way to get someone to trust her is to present who she is to the person instead of making a mask.
You do realize that we might be next on the chopping block? We're being middle management for a woman who in a move that makes a hostile takeover look like smalltime, turned a families' ancestral home and seat of power into a proverbial doghouse. I'm not loosing my cool and I'm grateful for the support, but her willing and able to play that fast and hard does not bode well for our ability to run interference for the Waystone Project.
There is no "chopping block". Marrisith didn't execute House Elwynn for being political dissidents, she took advantage of their fortioutous death to assert her authority. There is no "hostile takeover" here, House Elwynn died and the major house became the property of the crown. As property of the crown, the Queen reserves the right to do whatever she feels with the property, including leasing it to her research partners as an olive branch. The fact that it also makes a statement is simply a positive.

Just ask yourself this question: What would Marrisith gain from putting Mathilde on the "chopping block"? The loss of one of her most valuable allies? Because believe it or not, Mathilde is a valuable ally now. She is the point of contact between the Dwarves, Empire and Elves. Without her, there is no Waystone Project, and I'm sure Marrisith realise that, which is why she seems keen on having a positive relationship.
 
@K von Carstein Here you go.

You feel reality congealing as the tenth member of the War Council enters the tent, for his position equal to any on the expedition could never be in doubt. As his disapproving gaze scans over each member and reaches you, you feel Ulgu shrink away in fear. His staff is topped with the skull of a minotaur preserved in brass, his hammer glows red with heat that never fades, and the armour he wears has each scale marked with a separate rune of power. For the first time in centuries, Kragg the Grim has left Karaz-a-Karak.
 
The first is a carefully constructed bit of diplomacy, giving both praise and her expectations for us jointly. The second is idle, irrelevant chatter about a fairly racy topic.
not that racy.

the RPG is weirdly explicit in the fact that if a Player party ever ends on in a brotal any elves in the group will be completely relaxed and casual about everything happening from sights, sounds and... other sensory inputs.

not sure why that was needed in the limited page book over lore or rules, but it was there.
 
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and that's to far the other way, maybe that is totally how politics works here, and she would have seem weak if she didn't do something like that,

we need more data points to get a real read on her, is what I'm saying.
I hope so, for I am not enthusiastic about negotiating with someone who can play the game better than we can, in their home territory.

There is no "chopping block". Marrisith didn't execute House Elwynn for being political dissidents, she took advantage of their fortioutous death to assert her authority. There is no "hostile takeover" here, House Elwynn died and the major house became the property of the crown. As property of the crown, the Queen reserves the right to do whatever she feels with the property, including leasing it to her research partners as an olive branch. The fact that it also makes a statement is simply a positive.

Just ask yourself this question: What would Marrisith gain from putting Mathilde on the "chopping block"? The loss of one of her most valuable allies? Because believe it or not, Mathilde is a valuable ally now. She is the point of contact between the Dwarves, Empire and Elves. Without her, there is no Wayst
She could have just bought up a couple of studios for us to use, but she went through all the trouble of stomping on their grave in a humiliating manner. I'm grateful for the space, but I'm not going to think that she will have compunctions against twisting our arms if it suits her interests.

And as valuable as an ally we may be, she's still our boss. Any problems or hiccups the Project has are our problems, and I don't think someone who is a suit and a coke problem away from starring in an 80s move about corporate greed will extend things like empathy and understanding. If she's displeased with our efforts or the direction they take us, she's most likely going to seek us out as the responsible party. And that's not even including her criticisms, input, and management decisions.
 
I hope so, for I am not enthusiastic about negotiating with someone who can play the game better than we can, in their home territory.


She could have just bought up a couple of studios for us to use, but she went through all the trouble of stomping on their grave in a humiliating manner. I'm grateful for the space, but I'm not going to think that she will have compunctions against twisting our arms if it suits her interests.

And as valuable as an ally we may be, she's still our boss. Any problems or hiccups the Project has are our problems, and I don't think someone who is a suit and a coke problem away from starring in an 80s move about corporate greed will extend things like empathy and understanding. If she's displeased with our efforts or the direction they take us, she's most likely going to seek us out as the responsible party. And that's not even including her criticisms, input, and management decisions.
It's a house not a grave. It's her property after their death. DId you somehow miss how "crowded" the city is? She can't just rent a few studios because they all belong to the other Major Houses. If she rented their space, she'd be putting the project under their hands and getting us involved in the local politics of that House in particular.

Property is to be used, not preserved as a grave after the death of the former owners. I have no idea why you seem to be under the impression that the house of a dead person is sacred and not to be touched or used.
 
I like this elf queen. She's got a feel to her that reminds me a lot of Heidi; we should see if the empress might be able to pay us a visit here as 'oversight' on the project. A 'tea circle' sort of thing with Marri, Heidi, Roswita, and Mathilde would be an amazing back-channel for diplomacy through personal relationships.
 
It's a house not a grave. It's her property after their death. DId you somehow miss how "crowded" the city is? She can't just rent a few studios because they all belong to the other Major Houses. If she rented their space, she'd be putting the project under their hands and getting us involved in the local politics of that House in particular.

Property is to be used, not preserved as a grave after the death of the former owners. I have no idea why you seem to be under the impression that the house of a dead person is sacred and not to be touched or used.
The House in question favored isolation and voted against contact with foreigners. Upon their deaths, she dabbed on their graves and turned it into a meeting place for project of foreigners of all shapes and stripes. A strong political symbol, but incredibly ruthless. It's clear that she did not like those people. But the place isn't the point. The point is that she won't hesitate to apply pressure from her position of authority, and we'll be on the back foot in negotiations with her.
 
The House in question favored isolation and voted against contact with foreigners. Upon their deaths, she dabbed on their graves and turned it into a meeting place for project of foreigners of all shapes and stripes. A strong political symbol, but incredibly ruthless. It's clear that she did not like those people. But the place isn't the point. The point is that she won't hesitate to apply pressure from her position of authority, and we'll be on the back foot in negotiations with her.
I'll be incredibly honest, I have no idea what's so ruthless about settling in the house of dead isolationists. I have no idea where you're connecting the dots here. She made the house our research space, so that means she's the type of person who will apply position from a position of authority? How do these things relate? What even gave you that idea from the interactions we had with her?

If this is the type of ruthlessness we should expect from Marrisith, then she might be one of the nicest politicans I've ever heard of.
 
And as valuable as an ally we may be, she's still our boss.

Not really? Honestly I would say Mathilde is the stronger partner in this relationship. She has the dwarves in her corner, she has the stronger polity backing her, she has a wealth of other options to turn to if this one fizzles.

The leverage she has to twist Mathilde's arm is actually not very great. Especially considering that she doesn't even strictly control the Grey Lords who are her main contribution.
 
I'll be incredibly honest, I have no idea what's so ruthless about settling in the house of dead isolationists. I have no idea where you're connecting the dots here. She made the house our research space, so that means she's the type of person who will apply position from a position of authority? How do these things relate? What even gave you that idea from the interactions we had with her?

If this is the type of ruthlessness we should expect from Marrisith, then she might be one of the nicest politicans I've ever heard of.
It's has nothing to do with the house. It's that we shouldn't slack or leeway in dealings with her. Which is to be expected, but it's still a sight to see. I don't think anyone cares about the last family, but the story will be different if she says to axe pursuit of pushing back the Chaos Wastes in favor of something else because that doesn't create enough value for the Grey Lords. Or if we need shipments from Ulthuan for a certain type of stone, or reagents to juryrig an enchantment made by Caledor Dragontamer, and we get half of what's needed and a prod to make do.

Not really? Honestly I would say Mathilde is the stronger partner in this relationship. She has the dwarves in her corner, she has the stronger polity backing her, she has a wealth of other options to turn to if this one fizzles.

The leverage she has to twist Mathilde's arm is actually not very great. Especially considering that she doesn't even strictly control the Grey Lords who are her main contribution.
She's not a moron so she won't do anything that will kill the project, but it is under her authority, and I wouldn't be surprised if she had a lot to say about how the project should work and what goals it should have. I also wouldn't be surprised if she made us offers we couldn't refuse regarding it's direction.
 
I mean if the project starts to make actual progress any leverage she has will evaporate - because other polities will very much want it if we get driven out by poorly-thought demands.

There's a lot of leverage that neither party can actually use because they'll get pushed off the board if they try.
 
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