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Rise of Greasus Goldtooth:

Warning: Ogres, therefore mention of cannibalism.

2482 IC

It was a cold and cloudy day in the Mountains of Mourn as the wind breeze flowed around the vales and valleys surrounding the Valley of Horns. It was not an atypical day for this area in the Eastern Mountain ranges, but what was atypical was the hushed silence that occupied the territory of the notorious Goldtooth tribe; current rulers of the Valley; save for the grunt, smacks and cracks heard from within the Pit in the middle of the Goldtooth camp.

There, two Ogres were fighting for the title of Tyrant, a father and son. It was not an uncommon story, for many Tyrants sired dozens of children that grew strong and would challenge them for the title only to be consumed. Some of these children reigned supreme instead, taking their father's title and relieving him of his mortal shell. What was uncommon was the sheer size difference between the two, with the son having grown so large and corpulent, forming many dense layers of fat over his muscles that his father had to strain his near nonexistent neck to look at him.

What caused the hush of silence was not simply the difference in their body sizes however. The silence was inspired by the sheer one sided beatdown that their great leader was receiving at the hands of Greasus Goldtooth. Every strike Gofg laid on the flabby mass of his son, the only parts he could reasonably reach in quick order, the waves of fat would wobble and absorb the impacts. In comparison, Greasus' own strikes would crush bones, daze and disorient Gofg and force him to reorient himself only to find another leathery fist smashing into his head.

It took 5 minutes for one of the greatest Tyrants of the Goldtooths to be defeated, and three of those reserved for Greasus consuming his still living father's body. It didn't take long for them to recover after hearing Greasus' first decree as Tyrant.

"IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A FEAST TONIGHT BOYS." Greasus bellowed to the crowd.

The stunned audience snapped out of their daze to let out the loudest cheer heard in decades across the Valley. Greasus Goldtooth had become Tyrant of the Goldtooths.

2483 IC

Greasus Goldtooth, Tyrant of the Goldtooth Ogre Tribe of the Mountains of Mourne around the Valley of Horns, was an exceptional Ogre. If any of his subordinates held any doubts about his martial prowess after the display during the fight with his father, then they dare not voice them after seeing him display his dominance over the neighbouring tribes that contests Greasus' rule. He had offered them a choice, submit, or die. He would be Overtyrant, and if they held objections to that they could try to take him on.

It was not simply his absurd mass and martial prowess that was impressive for an Ogre, however, it was his intelligence. When Greasus took control of the Goldtooth tribe, he forbade his fellow Ogres from devouring, attacking and raiding trading caravans moving through Goldtooth territory. He restricted them to simply taking tolls, which could be paid in valuables or food. While many of the Ogres in his tribe were perplexed, wondering why they wouldn't just take all their belongings and eat them on top of that, Greasus was capable of seeing past the short term.

It is true that his tribe could most likely savage the majority of the caravans moving through the valley with surprise attacks, acquiring their wealth and food and eating the members of the caravan itself, but there was a consequence to doing that. If people deemed the route dangerous, then fewer and fewer people would come to it as it grew more risky. If the route was safe and you only needed to pay up a portion of your supplies to move through, then that stability would lead to more people coming through to that specific route. More money meant more food. Sacrificing food for the short term meant more food in the long term.

It was this type of long term thinking that separated Gofg from most Tyrants, but Greasus took this to an even greater extent, honing his mind to a razor sharp edge (by Ogre standard). Over the year that he took control, Greasus expanded the territory of his tribe and they became richer and richer as more caravans moved through the Valley and were granted secure passage as long as they would pay up. This meant that his tribe was one of the most well fed in his territory, which attracted more and more Ogres. He defeated all challengers and subjugated nearby Ogre tribes that offered alternative routes, and his ability to think of the long term allowed him to gain the favor of the many traders (comparatively) to move through his territory.

Such was his intellect, that he knew that the influx of trade could not have been solely as a result of his own escapades. Something must have changed for this increase in caravans moving through his Mountains, and he needed to find out what that was.

So it was that one such Tilean man leading the latest caravan into Goldtooth territory was led into the Greasus' tent. The nervous looking trader looked absolutely diminutive in comparison to the large Ogre taking him in with a considering glance.

"Diego's yer name I hear? Well, no mater. Git over here, I got some questions for ya." Greasus' rough grumbly voice rumbled from his throat, displacing some of his jowls as he spoke.

"Gorg told you to bring your map ye?"

"Aye, though he didn't tell me why I was summoned." Diego nervously intoned as he approached the table with maps in hand. He began unfurling them across the table as Greasus looked over the maps contemplatively.

"I notice more of those wheely wagon things goin' through my territory lately. Good for business, but I don' like bein' ignorant. You tell me what changed, and I give you a discount on tolls. You lie to me, you never see the light of da sun again, understand?"

"Yes sir." Diego knew better than to question the words of a man who could crush his head in one hand.

"Alright, get on with it. I don't have all day"

Diego coughed into his fist to clear his throat, gathered his bearing and began speaking, carefully but slowly picking up steam as he first pointed at his home principality of Miragliano:

"I come from Tilea, specifically Miragliano. We know how valuable the trade materials of the East are, yea? So we send expeditions now and then and those who come back, usually no more than a tenth, become the stuff of legends. There are two main ways to get to the Far East. Overseas, or overland.

"Overseas is risky, unstable yea? Greenskin pirates from Dragonback Mountains, Sartosan pirates, Druchii Corsairs looking for slaves, Arabyan pirates looking for slaves, Chaos Dwarfs looking for slaves, sometimes Tomb Kings and sea monsters and bad weather ruins the ships. Too dangerous, too circuitous, too unstable." Diego was growing more stable in his tone as he adopted his usual tone when instructing some of the younger traders. He would have been worried if the Tyrant listening to him wasn't listening to his every word intently.

"So you go the other way? Overland you said? That means you go here." Greasus pointed to the roads leading from Tilea through to the Border Princes.

"Ah no. You see, it's true that the open seas are dangerous, but the Gulfs, not so much. Black Gulf is watched over by the Dwarfs of Barak Varr, and they're close to the Tilean Sea so while there are pirates, it's not so hard a journey to go through this passage." Diego pointed up the Black Gulf to point at Barak Varr, the Dwarf Hold built at the headwaters of the Black Gulf.

"Some less fortunate caravans might be forced to move overland through the Border Princes, but not so for the wealthier merchants. In any case, Barak Varr is the stop for all southern trade, it's the perfect place to start the overland journey into the Far East. I'm sure you already know this, but to get us all on the same page, this is the World's Edge Mountain Range, this is the Dark Lands, and these are the Mountains of Mourne. To get to the Far East overland one needs to bypass all of them.

"There are 5 passes through the World's Edge leading into the Dark Lands. From north to south there's High Pass, Peak Pass, Silver Road, Mad Dog Pass and Death Pass." Diego pointed at each pass in turn.

"To make things brief, Peak Pass used to be watched over by Karak Vlag but it disappeared nearly two centuries ago, so it's unsafe and far north besides. Peak Pass is too far north for most Tileans like me, but beyond that while the Western edge is safe the Eastern part isn't." Greasus nodded his head. He wasn't involved in it, but he knew some Ogre tribes that frequented that part of the Dark Lands.

"So I'm guessing that something happened with the south passes to boost your chances?" Greasus took a guess. Diego stopped briefly, looking surprised to be receiving engagement.

"Oh yes. The Silver Road is still dangerous because of the Bloody Spears Tribe in Mt Grimfang, and Mad Dog is completely chaotic and unclaimed, but things started changing recently because of Death Pass." Diego's pace grew more frenetic and full of energy as he began to realise that he had an engaged audience.

"Look here, the Blood River. No settlements were made on it because there was no reason to, yea? Too fast flowing, no ship could sail upstream except for Barak Varrs' steamships, and the soil was too exhausted. Things changed when an expedition to reclaim Karak Eight Peaks, this hold over here, came through. A new settlement was made up here." Diego pointed at the headwaters of the Blood River, where the words "Ulrikadrin" were hastily scribbled on the map almost as an afterthought.

"This here is a fertile valley, but that's not the big thing. The big thing is that this port town leads to a passage moving through the mountains here, bypassing the Orc stronghold of Black Crag, and moving you over here, in Death Pass. Once you're here you're watched over by Cannon and Mortar from Karak Eight Peaks; which was successfully reclaimed by the way, good on them!; all the way to the Hold itself. From there you restock on supplies and can march all the way to the Dark Lands under near complete safety. THAT is why so many more caravans are moving through lately!" Diego ended his excited tirade, looking expectedly at the contemplative Greasus.

"Hmm…" Greasus rubbed his many chins in thought. "So this "Karak Eight Peaks" securing this "Death Pass" means more people survive the trip. Means more people go through here, means more money for me from tolls, and more money for you from trade. Issat it?"

Diego gulped nervously as he remembered in whose presence he was standing in. He unconsciously straightened up before replying: "I believe so, your… majesty?"

"Lord Goldtooth is fine. Anyways, this is helpful. Thanks for the info, you're getting a 50% discount. Hope you weren't lyin' about anythin', cus if you are…" A single glance from the Ogre was enough to make Diego consider his own mortality.

"I'm not. I can assure you on my honor as a tradesman." He replied unwaveringly, maintaining eye contact.

The Tyrant spent a little while imposing his presence before looking back to the maps, waving his hand to dismiss the Tilean man. Hardly five seconds of concentration had passed before the Tilean was out of his camp, not asking for his maps lest he incur the Tyrant's wrath.

Greasus Goldtooth on the other hand, was simply digesting the information he received, as if it was a tasty morsel not for his gut, but for his brain. He was aware, on an instinctual level, about many of the aspects of trade that his father valued, but he had never really considered applying it to maps and learning… whatever the field of study that had to do with places was called. But now, he was considering it.

'Safer roads means more people come through. More people come through means more money and more food, maybe we never run out. He didn't mention it, but these towns, Pigbarter and Sentinels, I know of the Ogre tribes there. They're some of the richest people over there. If I had control over not just this Valley, but over those areas, and over this "Spice Road" instead of just the "Ivory Road" I'm sitting on. That means more food right? The other Ogres right now, they're stupid. They see people moving through, they take their money then eat them. Nobody's gonna want to move through there if that's always what happens."

Slowly, but surely, the gears continued to grind in the Tyrant's head. He had already considered the idea of becoming Overtyrant, the first Ogre to claim the title in hundreds of years. He knew he could do it, but this revelation was motivating him. It made him want to push for it even more than he already was.

To those outside the tent, all one could hear was the ominous chuckling of an Ogre revelling in his newfound information as if he had found out the secrets to the universe.

Perhaps that was indeed the truth, for that particular Ogre at least.

AN: After reading the Ogre Kingdoms Army Book, I was inspired to make this. Especially when I read the time that Greasus Goldtooth took over as Tyrant of the tribe. I started considering the consequences of Death Pass reopening causing more caravans to manage to reach the Mountains, and what kind of influence it would have on Greasus as he starts claiming power. As one can see, I left it vague what happened more recently in the timeline because I'm not sure what Boney's planning with him, but I hope this entertains you at least.
I greatly enjoy seeing the way you write Greasus, and feel the need to say something before it gets drowned in the Vampire discussion.
 
I greatly enjoy seeing the way you write Greasus, and feel the need to say something before it gets drowned in the Vampire discussion.
Thanks. I was a bit unsure about my writing skills, especially with dialogue, but I felt like it would be better to post something so I can get better rather than never try to get it out.
 
You know, of all the reasons Chaos has to be pissed at us, I don't think anyone has brought up the time Mathilde cock blocked Tzeench when he was this close to driving a wedge between Gork and Mork.

You're right, Alric is pretty sus...
I would actually be tickled if Alric turned out to be evil instead of Egrimm. He was just pretending to be an incompetent leader, but the Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels was actually an intricate masterwork of infighting.
 
Ultimately, the reason why Chaos doesn't like vampires is that they don't offer anything Chaos fundamentally wants.

And I think this is where I get lost. Chaos still uses tools, like weapons and armor and magic, and those do not offer anything to chaos *except* the use of them advances their other goals.

And so I understand why as people the vampires theoretically might not offer anything chaos wants, but that's no reason for chaos not to use them as tools.

But the artifical 'No Poaching' rules seen to be a big part of the evil factions. Otherwise I'd expect Khorne worshiping orcs or at least hobgoblins along with stuff like maw-worshiping skaven (black hunger sounds congruent) or slaaneshi vampires. (Perfecting something to the point of obsession is something vampires do, right?)

Personally it's what I would do if I were running this as a game- pull out some really nasty surprises and conspiracies hidden mostly by the player's OOC assumptions about what they "know" to be true.
I
 
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And I think this is where I get lost. Chaos still uses tools, like weapons and armor and magic, and those do not offer anything to chaos *except* the use of them advances their other goals.
The thing is, all the weapons, armour and magic Chaos uses? All of them are made with Chaos, brought into being by Chaos. When you see a Champion laying waste to an infantry formation clad in Chaos Armour and wielding a Daemon Weapon, it isn't the same as using tools in the view of the Chaos Gods. From their perspective, arming their champion was no more using tools than you would describe using your hand to wind up a clockwork toy to make it run about the table for your amusement.

Chaos doesn't want to use vampires much in the way that only the Everchosen is able to hold the favour of all 4 Chaos Gods simultaneously; they are incredibly jealous beings at their core and despise sharing anything, least of all their pawns. Chaos hates vampires because they can't get their hooks into them, neither by direct corruption nor tempting them over to their side, and so do not want to use them.

As for the 'no poaching rule', plenty of regular humans starve every year in the Old World, enough that Ghouls will likely never go extinct, yet they don't worship the Great Maw. As for Khornate orcs, the Iron Orcs of Carcassonne are a mysterious sub-type of orcs only found in the Irrana Mountains, who have metal armour fused to their skin and are described as being obvious servants of Chaos.
 
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And I think this is where I get lost. Chaos still uses tools, like weapons and armor and magic, and those do not offer anything to chaos *except* the use of them advances their other goals.

And so I understand why as people the vampires theoretically might not offer anything chaos wants, but that's no reason for chaos not to use them as tools.

But the artifical 'No Poaching' rules seen to be a big part of the evil factions. Otherwise I'd expect Khorne worshiping orcs or at least hobgoblins along with stuff like maw-worshiping skaven (black hunger sounds congruent) or slaaneshi vampires. (Perfecting something to the point of obsession is something vampires do, right?)

Higher end Chaos armor is fused to its wearer through Chaos-y stuff so they don't exactly outsource for the people who they heavily invest in.

Khrone worshipping orcs were a thing I think (or was it a 40K thing?). The Maw is ogre centric so probably not terribly popular outside Ogres.

Overall it isn't like destro factions really go recruiting. At most there's alliances of convenience but they tend to be backstabby even in their factions and very remote or actively hostile to other destro factions.

On the flip side the Empire regularly trades with Tilea and Bretonnia and the Karaz Ankor so converts can much more easily happen and there's a sizeable population of migrants in major cities. If we take say Chaos Dwarfs, Orcs and Skaven there's no such stability; there might be alliances of convenience for a campaign or truces but there's no long term peaceful relations.
 
I think the important thing for Chaos is control. It wants to control and shape and twist the material realm to their liking, and undead are resistant to that control.

Could a Chaos God break and remould a vampire into their ideal servant? Probably, yeah, if given enough time. But why start with something that's inherently resistant and hostile to you, when you can do the same thing with a mortal and end up with roughly the same result?

The Chaos Gods are also not interested in challenges to their will. They want toys that jump when they are told to jump, fight when they are told to fight, and break when they are told to break. That's why the ones who fail are punished so harshly—in the eyes of the Chaos Gods, failure is disobedience. And a vampires inherent resistances are a form of disobedience to the Chaos Gods.

So yeah, maybe, if a god gets bored enough and a vampire mad enough, you might see a chaos vampire, but ultimately, due to conflicting natures, everyone is going to end up unsatisfied by the arrangement. And dissatisfaction is not something the Chaos Gods tolerate in their toys.

Would you play with a toy if it dissatisfied you?
 
Well, if we're talking about names, then as a native Arabic speaker I have something to note that may be considered a fun fact?

So as I'm reading the Warhammer books, the name "Abdul ben Raschid" is mentioned a couple times as the Arabyan who wrote the "Book of the Dead". I just want to briefly talk about how kind of stupid the name is?

Alright, so Arabic is heavily influenced by Islam. Probably everyone knows this. The names of Arabs are also heavily influenced by Islam. We often have our children named after great figures in the Qur'an like the Prophet Muhammad, which is considered a "holy name" essentially. Some of these holy names are related to the name of God. Allah is one name of God, He has 99 others. So it's very common for male children to be named "Abdul(insert one of the 100 names of God here)". Abd literally means "slave", and could be used to refer to "servant" but is rarely done so in the modern day. Ul/Al is an addon to indicate "of" saying you belong to someone, in this case god. "Ben" on the other hand means that you're the son of (insert father name here). Abdul Raschid is an actual name for Arabs, because Raschid is one of the names of God in Islam. Except Islam shouldn't exist in Warhammer, but there was a period of time in which they clearly copied it in, and this character might have been made during that time.

But what makes this even worse is that his name isn't Abdul Raschid. His name is Abdul Ben Raschid. They literally named him "Slave of---- son of Raschid". It doesn't make any sense. No person I've ever met is named Abdul. Don't let Jojo's Bizarre Adventure fool you Avdol is not an accurate representation.

The reason this irritates me is that I'm one of those people with "Abdul" names. The only time I've seen a failure on Arabic naming schemes on this level is in Jojo.

Yeah, there's a lot of problems with using existing languages for a fantasy universe that you can't really avoid without going full Tolkien. What's Johann doing with a Germanized version of a Biblical Hebrew name if there's no Bible and no Hebrews? How did the name 'Maximillian' come into existence if there's neither Maximus nor Scipio Aemilianus to mash together? Should I avoid the words 'spartan' and 'laconic' if there's no Spartans and no Laconia? Should characters be using the word 'adrenaline' if science hasn't figured out the adrenal glands yet? The amount of effort that can be poured into trying to properly anchor writing in the world and time period it's supposed to be in is endless and for very little benefit to the reader. And I lied above, because even if you do go full Tolkien, Middle Earth had anachronistic umbrellas, clarinets, and waistcoats.

Rise of Greasus Goldtooth

It'd definitely be interesting times for those along the Roads, and Greasus is a very interesting character that would be coming to power just about now if the butterflies haven't got him.

Thanks. I was a bit unsure about my writing skills, especially with dialogue, but I felt like it would be better to post something so I can get better rather than never try to get it out.

Nobody writes fantastically the first time they take up a pen. I got started writing fanfiction of scanlated manga about fifteen years ago, none of which ever saw the outside of my hard drive, and bounced through a number of fandoms and interests before ending up here on SV. Me writing well now is a result of me writing badly a whole bunch over the years, and where you're at now is a lot better than where I was at when I started.
 
Yeah, there's a lot of problems with using existing languages for a fantasy universe that you can't really avoid without going full Tolkien. What's Johann doing with a Germanized version of a Biblical Hebrew name if there's no Bible and no Hebrews? How did the name 'Maximillian' come into existence if there's neither Maximus nor Scipio Aemilianus to mash together? Should I avoid the words 'spartan' and 'laconic' if there's no Spartans and no Laconia? Should characters be using the word 'adrenaline' if science hasn't figured out the adrenal glands yet? The amount of effort that can be poured into trying to properly anchor writing in the world and time period it's supposed to be in is endless and for very little benefit to the reader. And I lied above, because even if you do go full Tolkien, Middle Earth had anachronistic umbrellas, clarinets, and waistcoats.
I mean, surely some names would still pop up eventually, if only because there's only so many ways you can combine the noises a human throat makes? Actual words though, that makes sense. Even if they, too, popped up, they would have very different meanings.
 
But the artifical 'No Poaching' rules seen to be a big part of the evil factions. Otherwise I'd expect Khorne worshiping orcs or at least hobgoblins along with stuff like maw-worshiping skaven (black hunger sounds congruent) or slaaneshi vampires. (Perfecting something to the point of obsession is something vampires do, right?)
The Dhar factions really, really do not share well. They want total control.
 
I mean, surely some names would still pop up eventually, if only because there's only so many ways you can combine the noises a human throat makes? Actual words though, that makes sense. Even if they, too, popped up, they would have very different meanings.

Very few people actually want a new and unique name for their child, though. Most stick with names that are familiar to them, and if they want something exotic they borrow from another language or mix up the spelling a bit. This is how you can easily associate names with languages and even with time periods, and why there's exceptions to that that throw people off, like the 'Tiffany Problem'.
 
Very few people actually want a new and unique name for their child, though. Most stick with names that are familiar to them, and if they want something exotic they borrow from another language or mix up the spelling a bit. This is how you can easily associate names with languages and even with time periods, and why there's exceptions to that that throw people off, like the 'Tiffany Problem'.

Seconding this. One of the hardest things in writing historical fiction for me is balancing out the scarcity of actual accurate names with the fact that one cannot expect the reader to remember half a dozen Johns and Marys. I usually err on the side of more variety, but it is a hard balance to keep no matter what one's preferences are.
 
Should I avoid the words 'spartan' and 'laconic' if there's no Spartans and no Laconia?

Oh man, the Spartan/Laconic problem drives me mad. Perfectly serviceable words in English that fit the tone of many works, but how do I justify the existence of the word in my story when there's no Ancient Greece? It's either avoid the words, ignore the problem, or frame your work as a translation, which is something you don't always want to do.
 
Oh man, the Spartan/Laconic problem drives me mad. Perfectly serviceable words in English that fit the tone of many works, but how do I justify the existence of the word in my story when there's no Ancient Greece? It's either avoid the words, ignore the problem, or frame your work as a translation, which is something you don't always want to do.

I think it's completely justified to ignore the problem entirely. If you really get down to it there's no Proto-Indo-European in the setting for all these words to trace their etymological roots back to anyway. Otherwise you end up having to research every single word and tearing out your hair when you find out that 'goodbye' started as 'godbwye' as shorthand for 'god be with ye'.
 
I think it's completely justified to ignore the problem entirely. If you really get down to it there's no Proto-Indo-European in the setting for all these words to trace their etymological roots back to anyway. Otherwise you end up having to research every single word and tearing out your hair when you find out that 'goodbye' started as 'godbwye' as shorthand for 'god be with ye'.

Yeah, I know. I'm just super pedantic about this sort of stuff.
 
Eh, I just assume every work's a translation because otherwise I would have to learn a thousand different languages, fictional or otherwise. It only really matters if you make a clear disctinction for certain words from the beginning.
 
Even assuming your try and have unlimited research budget and manpower, you run into the issue that the reader does not. They might not notice, and if great attention to "proper" language use is sold as a feature, then you'll get people calling out words as wrong because of folk etymology or even just different, equally well substantiated theories.

And where do you even draw the line? Kaiser and Tzar derives from Ceaser, which is a historical person. And things like Tyrant or Dictator are originally specific political position, but mostly disconnected in todays use.

And hell, the existence of loan words from other languages implies some history all by itself.
 
just invent 10 different conlangs with dozens of variants each from scratch, then write your story in one of said conlangs

deciphering the writing before they can understand the story can be a fun challenge for your readers to overcome :thonk:
 
And losing her girlfriend counts as getting harmed, so Mathilde should probably try to cut down on her encounter solo'ing.

At the very least we ought to pick up a few disposeable bodies to bring along as meat shields, before the next threat inevitably tries to kick our doors down...

You had a perfect chance to segue into how Vampires and Necromancers are much harder to permanently hurt, and you blew it. You need to find a replacement, old man. You're getting rusty.
 
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Considering that everyone's lexicon is unique, and changing from moment to moment, "everything is translation" seems fine to me, since everyone experiencing the art in question is translating.
or frame your work as a translation, which is something you don't always want to do.
Sincere question from a drunk man who think you're fucking awesome:

Why might someone not want to frame their work as a translation, when all media is translated through each individual's lense when they experience said media?

(Hmmm. I put in 'Sincere ' because I feel like i'm flattening two different 'abstraction levels' down into one, and that might be an insincere thing to do, but maybe not? Linguistics is not my wheelhouse)
 
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You had a perfect chance to segue into how Vampires and Necromancers are much harder to permanently hurt, and you blew it. You need to find a replacement, old man. You're getting rusty.
... Wait, did you think I meant using actual people as meatshields? Nono, when I said we needed to pick up disposeable bodies, I meant it literally.

Pick up some bodies that noone's going to miss and then use Mathilde's skills as a Necromancer to make sure she always has a small unit around her and won't ever start a 1-on-1 fight.

(though technically Necromancers are just as easy to hurt as anyone else surrounded by a legion of loyal soldiers)
 
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