W8 a sec;
did't Krad had that going already?
Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
- Thread starter torroar
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W8 a sec;
did't Krad had that going already?
Bloody*Vermilion
The newbie of newbies on this site
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His/Etc
You said fertility twice btw
Nah, I was copy pasting two different definition blurbs from the material.
2nd Edition Tome of Salvation: summer, agriculture, fertility, love and nature
3rd Edition Signs of Faith: community, well-being, love, life, health, fertility, and birth.
I didn't even get into how She has separate 'local' Goddess interpretations with her their own little domains.
Dryath, a local interpretation of her in the Reikland, is solely and specifically the Goddess of fertility and womanhood.
Meanwhile, interestingly, there's Halétha in Ostland and Nordland, who is Her but a Goddess of Hunting.
But as for her non hunting/crop stuff, there's plenty more to her as well from the 2nd Edition and 3rd Edition for a few blurbs.
Rhya is also the patroness of romantic love. Her purview includes procreation and she governs carnal acts, though few worship her openly in such a manner -- indeed such thoughts are considered scandalous and rude among most people of the Old World. Lovers may utter her name during passionate moments, which priestesses of Rhya claim is sufficient respect for the goddess. Rhya is the heartbeat which quickens in a mother's belly, the first birdsong of spring, and the bleat of newborn lambs.
She's got a lot of blurbs about motherhood, too, in her stuff. But yeah, I was just posting two different editions definitions with a / to split them.
- Location
- Canada
In light of all of Rhya's many pervasive domains and what Torroar mentioned before regarding how she's less prominent compared to Taal, I remain more confused than ever.
Taal's competing with Ulric and Sigmar when it comes to being manly men who fight evil, ans hunters aren't exactly a large proportion of the population as opposed to farmers.
Rhya just seems more pervasive in the average peasant's life, and even more helpful for nobles (the whole taking the pain of childbirth thing is probably limited by the number of priestesses willing to undergo that, meaning it'll probably be the nobles benefiting) given all the wives are probably very appreciative of what they do-
So Taal being more prominent even outside of Taal-centric provinces like Talabecland just feels off. Is it really sexism? 'Cause I don't really see how the general view of Taal and Rhya isn't more equitable.
Taal's competing with Ulric and Sigmar when it comes to being manly men who fight evil, ans hunters aren't exactly a large proportion of the population as opposed to farmers.
Rhya just seems more pervasive in the average peasant's life, and even more helpful for nobles (the whole taking the pain of childbirth thing is probably limited by the number of priestesses willing to undergo that, meaning it'll probably be the nobles benefiting) given all the wives are probably very appreciative of what they do-
So Taal being more prominent even outside of Taal-centric provinces like Talabecland just feels off. Is it really sexism? 'Cause I don't really see how the general view of Taal and Rhya isn't more equitable.
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
Sexism likely plays a large role, yeah, since its mainly men in positions of leadership and such.
To be honest, it's an issue that Taal and Rhya's Cults face less so than the Gods themselves. People don't have to be super devoted members of certain Cults to go 'Thank Taal/Thank Rhya', and so on.
The power of the Cults, instead, is described as more of an issue of the worship of Rhya deliberately not formalizing and entering into the arenas of politicking and power that the Cults of Ulric, Taal, and Sigmar partook in. Additionally, the Rhyan portions of the Cult as well as the Taalite ones became by necessity sort of removed from the main areas of power and 'importance' in governing terms aka cities and major settlements.
And, as the 3rd Edition tried to explain it, her domains are soooo widespread that she's sort of faded from major sight for a lot of people. Not to mention, while she definitely has some origins in herb lore and early medicines, a lot of that knowledge was surely shared with the Cult of Shallya for mutual benefit which would go on to end with the White Dove somewhat supplant Rhya in such matters. I do a mix of different Editions, this should be known by this point, with 4th Edition being used particularly sparingly.
Tome of Salvation notes that the Cult of Taal and Rhya has their Cultists usually spend their time wandering alone, off in the wilderness or in tiny groups living off the land. And while their influence is significant in remote areas, it is 'mainly because they are often the only priests in a given area'. But also, again, it emphasizes that they deliberately do their best to steer clear out of politics and power jockeying, with it being IIRC in canon that they outright refused Electoral Seats when offered by Magnus.
But as to your question as to their domains and prominence, for one, Taal is worshipped/mentioned/acknowledged for a bevy of things as well. He is literally worshipped as the power of all nature itself, of rain, vigor, growth, and so on. He's the original King of the Gods, and while yes he has 'less' people worshipping him and calling on him as the agricultural peasantry do for Rhya, woodsmen, trackers, and rangers all still are major worshippers for him.
And it simply cannot be forgotten that, for pretty much the entirety of the Empire's history, more of it has been dealing with the Great Forest than it has the fields. The southernmost provinces, like sundrenched Averland, Solland, and some of Wissenland, and major portions of the Reikland, have major agricultural sectors and provide places for Rhya to flourish.
Others, like Talabecland, Hochland, Middenland, Nordland, Ostland, portions of Ostermark and Stirland, are PRIMARILY big forests, where traveling a tiny way out of any settlement is immediately frontier territory. Not for nothing is the Empire sometimes described as islands of civilization in a sea of forest and darkness. There is just SO MUCH forest and therefore people who have to deal with said forests. So Taal gets all that prominence, plus the historical fact that Talabecland and Talabheim are called that and not Rhayabecland and Rhyasheim.
Quite literally, there is more for Taal than Rhya if we're focusing exclusively on a few of their domains, with Taal's being big major ones as well as Rhya. Rhya is more diminished in the eastern and northern portions of the Empire, whilst she is more prominent in the south. But, as the Empire has advanced, sections of Rhya have gotten twisted up/conflated with Taal, with nature and animals and harvests, meanwhile other sections of Rhya have gotten supplanted significantly by Shallya. And, in a more puritanical way, it is not necessarily accepted as 'civilized' to be too open about love/sex/carnality etc.
On a different cultural note - temples!
They don't uh, really do those. They preserve places of natural beauty, take to waterfalls, open glens, a few circled stones, some wells and springs. There are occasional shrines, but the major temples that just about almost every other Cult likes to go for isn't there. Which, quite frankly, means that there are not as big major congregational places for them to pop up into and make big shows of their religiosity and presence in society outside of, like, Talabheim and the forest within the crater. And regardless of whether someone thanks Taal or Rhya for something out in the fields or on the road, there is a good portion of the populace, especially those who make their whole lives in mostly urban environments, who likely feel a bit disconnected from a Cult that is so different from any of the others they are familiar with. Which makes them strange, and disconnected from them the potential worshipper.
Plus, the Daughters of Rhya, the lesser order which specifically focuses itself as midwifes/healers/counsellors solely for mothers and mothers-to-be, actually hold themselves somewhat aloof and secretive. Secrets like how to avoid getting pregnant, dealing with bad husbands, and yet are often disliked by more patriarchal Cults as a result. So they keep themselves in the background on purpose.
But the Bringers of Bounty retain a place, most respected and accepted, for their aid in hunters/livestock/crops/etc.
But the point, again, is that they are sought out for practical knowledge as much as blessings, and that's what it comes down.
Practicality and less desire for being as big and open and 'powerful' means that they are diminished/dismissed more by those in 'power' as a result of simply not engaging. They are incredibly widespread, acknowledged, noted, prayed to, whispered to, and so on. But it is without the major cathedrals and temples and mass crowds of worshippers going to service every day, it is every farmer or hunter murmuring a prayer on their lonesome or in small groups before they get on with their job for the day. This not like the Cult of Manann, who is secretly the soft 3rd most powerful Cult in the Empire and more widespread than any other in the whole of the Old World due to - you know - all oceans and rivers and seas and such, who are connected in a powerful web and hierarchy. The Cult of Taal and Rhya are specifically separated, distinct, and broken up into two separate Hierarchs per province, with no 'superiors' or higher priests beyond that. Hierarch is as high as it goes, and it goes at the provincial level.
At the end of the day, it's not a matter of prominence or presence, because both really are quite prominent and present in the commoner's life out in the Empire, in the fields and forests, even if in a much reduced manner in the cities and other major urban centers.
It's a matter of active visibility, to which neither makes major efforts at, but quite simply Taal is somewhat more...easily visible. You know, with the province and big city and also the big hunts bringing in the furs and meats for everyone and all that. Rhya gets her due, of course, but Taal just gets a bit more than her in most interpretations of their mythology. He's the powerful raging embodiment of nature, she's the one who calms him down. And, while portions of the Empire are more egalitarian, other portions are not so much. That's just the unfortunate truth.
We're more 2nd Edition than 3rd, so at least Rhya hasn't literally become so diffuse that she has ceased to be to the point that it's just the Cult of Taal.
EDIT:
Plus, there's just...sorta less chances/places for mega heug acts of faith and power and such? You really don't see them haring off to challenge the Dark Gods, have whole armies of people praying to them and fighting for them and dedicating incredible world shaking deeds for them. You might have someone dedicate a really big buck they took down to Taal, or the finest head of one's herd to Rhya, but sheer levels of 'potent' fervent major constant active mega worship like other Cults get just isn't part and parcel of what Taal and Rhya get. They get regular low-level stuff, for the most part, which is more than nothing, certainly, but still. Shallya gets play in urban, sea-based, rural, and warfare environments, but you don't really see Rhya or Taal showing up nearly as prominently in big marching armies that feature so heavily in the world that is Warhammer, you know? They've got Longshanks and Horned Hunters, but Manann has war fleets and fisheries and all that other stuff too, plus big storms and water-based wars and rivers and so on - and depending on your interpretations and location in the Empire that means that Taal who originally had something over storms and rivers as well lost out on that to Manann in some aspects.
The power of the Cults, instead, is described as more of an issue of the worship of Rhya deliberately not formalizing and entering into the arenas of politicking and power that the Cults of Ulric, Taal, and Sigmar partook in. Additionally, the Rhyan portions of the Cult as well as the Taalite ones became by necessity sort of removed from the main areas of power and 'importance' in governing terms aka cities and major settlements.
And, as the 3rd Edition tried to explain it, her domains are soooo widespread that she's sort of faded from major sight for a lot of people. Not to mention, while she definitely has some origins in herb lore and early medicines, a lot of that knowledge was surely shared with the Cult of Shallya for mutual benefit which would go on to end with the White Dove somewhat supplant Rhya in such matters. I do a mix of different Editions, this should be known by this point, with 4th Edition being used particularly sparingly.
Tome of Salvation notes that the Cult of Taal and Rhya has their Cultists usually spend their time wandering alone, off in the wilderness or in tiny groups living off the land. And while their influence is significant in remote areas, it is 'mainly because they are often the only priests in a given area'. But also, again, it emphasizes that they deliberately do their best to steer clear out of politics and power jockeying, with it being IIRC in canon that they outright refused Electoral Seats when offered by Magnus.
But as to your question as to their domains and prominence, for one, Taal is worshipped/mentioned/acknowledged for a bevy of things as well. He is literally worshipped as the power of all nature itself, of rain, vigor, growth, and so on. He's the original King of the Gods, and while yes he has 'less' people worshipping him and calling on him as the agricultural peasantry do for Rhya, woodsmen, trackers, and rangers all still are major worshippers for him.
And it simply cannot be forgotten that, for pretty much the entirety of the Empire's history, more of it has been dealing with the Great Forest than it has the fields. The southernmost provinces, like sundrenched Averland, Solland, and some of Wissenland, and major portions of the Reikland, have major agricultural sectors and provide places for Rhya to flourish.
Others, like Talabecland, Hochland, Middenland, Nordland, Ostland, portions of Ostermark and Stirland, are PRIMARILY big forests, where traveling a tiny way out of any settlement is immediately frontier territory. Not for nothing is the Empire sometimes described as islands of civilization in a sea of forest and darkness. There is just SO MUCH forest and therefore people who have to deal with said forests. So Taal gets all that prominence, plus the historical fact that Talabecland and Talabheim are called that and not Rhayabecland and Rhyasheim.
Quite literally, there is more for Taal than Rhya if we're focusing exclusively on a few of their domains, with Taal's being big major ones as well as Rhya. Rhya is more diminished in the eastern and northern portions of the Empire, whilst she is more prominent in the south. But, as the Empire has advanced, sections of Rhya have gotten twisted up/conflated with Taal, with nature and animals and harvests, meanwhile other sections of Rhya have gotten supplanted significantly by Shallya. And, in a more puritanical way, it is not necessarily accepted as 'civilized' to be too open about love/sex/carnality etc.
On a different cultural note - temples!
They don't uh, really do those. They preserve places of natural beauty, take to waterfalls, open glens, a few circled stones, some wells and springs. There are occasional shrines, but the major temples that just about almost every other Cult likes to go for isn't there. Which, quite frankly, means that there are not as big major congregational places for them to pop up into and make big shows of their religiosity and presence in society outside of, like, Talabheim and the forest within the crater. And regardless of whether someone thanks Taal or Rhya for something out in the fields or on the road, there is a good portion of the populace, especially those who make their whole lives in mostly urban environments, who likely feel a bit disconnected from a Cult that is so different from any of the others they are familiar with. Which makes them strange, and disconnected from them the potential worshipper.
Plus, the Daughters of Rhya, the lesser order which specifically focuses itself as midwifes/healers/counsellors solely for mothers and mothers-to-be, actually hold themselves somewhat aloof and secretive. Secrets like how to avoid getting pregnant, dealing with bad husbands, and yet are often disliked by more patriarchal Cults as a result. So they keep themselves in the background on purpose.
But the Bringers of Bounty retain a place, most respected and accepted, for their aid in hunters/livestock/crops/etc.
But the point, again, is that they are sought out for practical knowledge as much as blessings, and that's what it comes down.
Practicality and less desire for being as big and open and 'powerful' means that they are diminished/dismissed more by those in 'power' as a result of simply not engaging. They are incredibly widespread, acknowledged, noted, prayed to, whispered to, and so on. But it is without the major cathedrals and temples and mass crowds of worshippers going to service every day, it is every farmer or hunter murmuring a prayer on their lonesome or in small groups before they get on with their job for the day. This not like the Cult of Manann, who is secretly the soft 3rd most powerful Cult in the Empire and more widespread than any other in the whole of the Old World due to - you know - all oceans and rivers and seas and such, who are connected in a powerful web and hierarchy. The Cult of Taal and Rhya are specifically separated, distinct, and broken up into two separate Hierarchs per province, with no 'superiors' or higher priests beyond that. Hierarch is as high as it goes, and it goes at the provincial level.
At the end of the day, it's not a matter of prominence or presence, because both really are quite prominent and present in the commoner's life out in the Empire, in the fields and forests, even if in a much reduced manner in the cities and other major urban centers.
It's a matter of active visibility, to which neither makes major efforts at, but quite simply Taal is somewhat more...easily visible. You know, with the province and big city and also the big hunts bringing in the furs and meats for everyone and all that. Rhya gets her due, of course, but Taal just gets a bit more than her in most interpretations of their mythology. He's the powerful raging embodiment of nature, she's the one who calms him down. And, while portions of the Empire are more egalitarian, other portions are not so much. That's just the unfortunate truth.
We're more 2nd Edition than 3rd, so at least Rhya hasn't literally become so diffuse that she has ceased to be to the point that it's just the Cult of Taal.
EDIT:
Plus, there's just...sorta less chances/places for mega heug acts of faith and power and such? You really don't see them haring off to challenge the Dark Gods, have whole armies of people praying to them and fighting for them and dedicating incredible world shaking deeds for them. You might have someone dedicate a really big buck they took down to Taal, or the finest head of one's herd to Rhya, but sheer levels of 'potent' fervent major constant active mega worship like other Cults get just isn't part and parcel of what Taal and Rhya get. They get regular low-level stuff, for the most part, which is more than nothing, certainly, but still. Shallya gets play in urban, sea-based, rural, and warfare environments, but you don't really see Rhya or Taal showing up nearly as prominently in big marching armies that feature so heavily in the world that is Warhammer, you know? They've got Longshanks and Horned Hunters, but Manann has war fleets and fisheries and all that other stuff too, plus big storms and water-based wars and rivers and so on - and depending on your interpretations and location in the Empire that means that Taal who originally had something over storms and rivers as well lost out on that to Manann in some aspects.
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- Location
- Australia
Since the subject matter is the Cult of Rhya, this exact order of precedence horrifies me.
Not sure why. 2nd Edition has the Cult of Taal and Rhya, with Rhya retaining an equal presence in the Bringers of Bounty, sole control and command of the Daughters of Rhya, and an equal partnership of Hierarchs that co-command the Cult's different provincial groups.
That's better than 3rd Edition, certainly.
That's better than 3rd Edition, certainly.
- Location
- Australia
I opened up Signs of Faith to refresh my memory, remembered what they did to Verena in this book, and started thinking I'd have to revise my opinion on how 3e handled Rhya. Since finishing reading the relevant parts of Signs of Faith, Tome of Blessings, and Tome of Salvation, I am astonished to find that 3e handled Rhya even worse than the sexist edition of WFRP by a rather significant margin.
Yes, 2e did Rhya better than 3rd Edition, certainly.
I mean, there's the Wardens, who guard the sacred places of Taal and Rhya, and I'm 100% sure that there's plenty of female guards specifically for the Rhyan places. Initiates of Taal aren't even necessarily just women, as Tome of Salvation includes that both young men and women are taken by priests at the onset of puberty to 'learn the mysteries of the wilderness and the wisdom of Taal'. So that's not a purely men only thing. Instead, it is the Initiates of Rhya that are more purely women, in fact banning men from witnessing or learning about their sacred rites entirely. So in that regard, they lean further towards Rhya than Taal in terms of people getting to do stuff. Celebrants are both Taalites and Rhyans. Verena and Shallya seem to be doing pretty fine in the Tome of Salvation too???
I dunno, I don't have the 4th Edition stuff for that sort of thing, I only have some bits and bobs and acknowledgement from the wiki of sources.
I dunno, I don't have the 4th Edition stuff for that sort of thing, I only have some bits and bobs and acknowledgement from the wiki of sources.
- Location
- Australia
Yes, 2e is definitely, significantly better than 3e in this regard. To be fully clear, this isn't sarcasm, I'm being sincere.
- Location
- Edmonton
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As someone with 4E books, I did do a quick side by side comparison for how each book (Tome of Salvation for 2e and Archives of Empire III for 4e) treats Rhya just now and yeah I have to agree. 4E gave Rhya an entire section of the book and fleshed her our way more than 2E, giving her a lot more agency and prominence as well. It doesn't contradict 2E completely, but it definitely makes it the "Cult of Rhya and the Cult of Taal" more than "The Cult of Taal and Rhya (I guess)," if that makes sense.
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Oh! I do have that Archives of the Empire, yeah. Just not anything called Signs of Faith.
Okay, yeah, no, this works fine for the most part for me anyway. I'm not seeing too much contradiction between the Tome of Salvation and what's in Archives III, it's just more additional content for Rhya for the most part? ATM, at least if only because of the way I've sort of jigged DoDA into functionality, it's still a Cult of Taal and Rhya rather than a Cult of Taal and a Cult of Rhya, but plenty of the stuff in Archives III seems fine enough to me. Heck, it's still got the Daughters of Rhya and Bringers of Bounty, just adds the Corn Mothers.
Overall, to me while Taal and Rhya are still quite present amongst the common folk, they just don't have the same bombastic oomph a lot of the time compared to most of the other Gods because they choose not to do so, Rhya especially I figure whereas Taal sometimes still does the storms and big symbols like he did for Magnus during the GWAC. I didn't like how 3E reduced Rhya so much, but as far as I can tell with a cursory blink through giving Rhya more fleshing out and more codified activities and traditions and such amongst her domains is fine enough can meld 2E and 4E well enough for the most part. It still works as the Cult of Taal and Rhya, just with it being more clearly the Cult of Taal AND Rhya, if that makes any sense.
Okay, yeah, no, this works fine for the most part for me anyway. I'm not seeing too much contradiction between the Tome of Salvation and what's in Archives III, it's just more additional content for Rhya for the most part? ATM, at least if only because of the way I've sort of jigged DoDA into functionality, it's still a Cult of Taal and Rhya rather than a Cult of Taal and a Cult of Rhya, but plenty of the stuff in Archives III seems fine enough to me. Heck, it's still got the Daughters of Rhya and Bringers of Bounty, just adds the Corn Mothers.
Overall, to me while Taal and Rhya are still quite present amongst the common folk, they just don't have the same bombastic oomph a lot of the time compared to most of the other Gods because they choose not to do so, Rhya especially I figure whereas Taal sometimes still does the storms and big symbols like he did for Magnus during the GWAC. I didn't like how 3E reduced Rhya so much, but as far as I can tell with a cursory blink through giving Rhya more fleshing out and more codified activities and traditions and such amongst her domains is fine enough can meld 2E and 4E well enough for the most part. It still works as the Cult of Taal and Rhya, just with it being more clearly the Cult of Taal AND Rhya, if that makes any sense.
- Location
- Australia
Oh, thought you did since you mentioned it in this post.
Ah, but you see, I cleverly did the ol' Wikipedia source checkeroo.
By which I mean when I was scrutinizing the Warhammer wiki, with my Tome of Salvation open, I clicked and it zoomed me down and said 'this came from Signs of Faith' and I was like oh I don't have that one. But hopefully they're citing it truthfully! That, plus other internet checking elsewhere, helps provide some information now and again for me. I have some 3E stuff, but not a lot. I honestly have more 4E than 3E stuff.
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
I wonder how activate the cults of Taal and Rhya have been since we took out Zach since before it would have been a certain death sentence, but now it's been a resurgence over the years since the forests are now just regular dangerous.
With Ostlanders now more willing to go into the woods to work and such I'm sure gods are called upon more often by common folk.
With Ostlanders now more willing to go into the woods to work and such I'm sure gods are called upon more often by common folk.
SneakyWalrus
Is the Water Free?
I would imagine that it really does come down to the lack of desire to be politically engaged that really draws back a lot of the engagement with both Cults, either entwined or individually. We know that the Ulricans and the Sigmarites have long, long had a standing political feud that dates back to prior to the Age of Three Emperors and are exemplified in the political squabbles between the northern and southern reaches of the Empire and it's Provinces. The Taalites and Rhyans on the other hand, have never had that level of political engagement outside of their assorted low-level actions across the various more rural regions of the Empire at large, and have demonstrated a clear lack of desire to engage in that level of politicking in the first place.
Ultimately, they are absolutely incredibly relevant on a cultural level, and we know this through casual conversation and sources in setting. However, because they're not politically relevant then they're not treated as a major actor on the larger scale that a lot of the media around the Empire covers, even though they still play a massive role culturally.
Ultimately, they are absolutely incredibly relevant on a cultural level, and we know this through casual conversation and sources in setting. However, because they're not politically relevant then they're not treated as a major actor on the larger scale that a lot of the media around the Empire covers, even though they still play a massive role culturally.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think what it comes down to is that by the nature of their faith, the Sigmarites and the Ulricans are both big on, specifically, warfare. Organized worship of either religion is necessarily either going to result in the local church forming its own army* or finding someone else's army* and totally co-opting it by putting its priests into prominent positions and making worship of Sigmar or Ulric pivotal to the army's faith, cohesion, and general function. It's like how the priests of Manaan never saw a boat they weren't going to take an interest in, one way or another.
The thing is, boats and shipping are or can be a private enterprise. Farming, likewise.
Armies very much aren't. Any military force of reasonable size in a given area is necessarily a political force. This is partly because the logistics of supporting the army require the ability to levy taxes on the populace. It's partly because anyone with the power of an army at their back cannot be made helpless or inconsequential in the area's politics. And it's partly because any reasonably stable state, even a smaller-scale one (like the three fragmentary rump states the Empire broke up into before Magnus) cannot tolerate renegade actors with armies inside its own structure, so it must either disband those armies or somehow co-opt them into the power structure.
The very nature of needing to be good at war, to participate in war, and to have a voice in how the Empire wages war make it necessary that the Sigmarite and Ulrican churches will maintain a strong political presence.
Taal, Rhya, Shallya, Manaan, and the other gods of the Empire are not under this pressure.
____________________________
*(knightly order, militia, crusade, whatever)
The thing is, boats and shipping are or can be a private enterprise. Farming, likewise.
Armies very much aren't. Any military force of reasonable size in a given area is necessarily a political force. This is partly because the logistics of supporting the army require the ability to levy taxes on the populace. It's partly because anyone with the power of an army at their back cannot be made helpless or inconsequential in the area's politics. And it's partly because any reasonably stable state, even a smaller-scale one (like the three fragmentary rump states the Empire broke up into before Magnus) cannot tolerate renegade actors with armies inside its own structure, so it must either disband those armies or somehow co-opt them into the power structure.
The very nature of needing to be good at war, to participate in war, and to have a voice in how the Empire wages war make it necessary that the Sigmarite and Ulrican churches will maintain a strong political presence.
Taal, Rhya, Shallya, Manaan, and the other gods of the Empire are not under this pressure.
____________________________
*(knightly order, militia, crusade, whatever)
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
What are you on about? The era of Three Emperors is about the Cults of Sigmar, Ulric and Taal having a centuries lasting civil war on and around the territory of the Empire.
Taalites are very much political beasts as we are about to find out if our Seed Drill reforms in the Cult of Rhya survive the Beasttide. Don't let @torroar talking about how the Cults of Taal and Rhya not participating in city politics convince you that they don't participate in politics period. Torroar has emphasized that those two cults see power differently on this very page:
Expect to have to deal with Taalite and Rhyan politics once this bout of years long turn event is over.
It's more of a decentralized thing than anything else. As mentioned before, there is a Hierarch of Taal and a Hierarch of Rhya for every province. Which means Ostland/Nordland/Ostermark/Middenland/Stirland/Averland/Reikland/Wissenland/Talabecland and maybe the Moorland each have their own Hierarch of Taal and Hierarch of Rhya.
There is no High Hierarch of Taal, officially, but it's entirely possible/likely that the Hierarch of Taal from - you know - Talabecland aka TAAL LAND with TAAL'S CITY with the big TAAL'S RIVER - carries a bit of historical potency more than any of the other Hierarchs of Taal. And, no doubt Rhya is also majorly worshipped there too, with that Cult of Taal AND Rhya being so central to the province.
Magnus furnishing the Cults of Sigmar and Ulric with Electoral powers is confirmed, him offering to the Cult of Taal and Rhya is less so, literally 'impossible to verify'. Or, with the power of this AU being mine, happens to be true.
But, being well grounded, and after dealing with the Era of Three Emperor's, and seeing the sheer chaos/bloodshed/pain all of that involved, plus Taal giving his vocal undeniable approval to Magnus more than any of the other candidates that the Cult helped sponsor, I think that even if the Hierarchs of Talabecland would be more than willing, the other supermajority of Hierarchs might not have been. Being as decentralized as they are, there is no doubt that it is possible for significant internal politics to be a thing.
Heck, might try to work this into an omake or something.
There is no High Hierarch of Taal, officially, but it's entirely possible/likely that the Hierarch of Taal from - you know - Talabecland aka TAAL LAND with TAAL'S CITY with the big TAAL'S RIVER - carries a bit of historical potency more than any of the other Hierarchs of Taal. And, no doubt Rhya is also majorly worshipped there too, with that Cult of Taal AND Rhya being so central to the province.
Magnus furnishing the Cults of Sigmar and Ulric with Electoral powers is confirmed, him offering to the Cult of Taal and Rhya is less so, literally 'impossible to verify'. Or, with the power of this AU being mine, happens to be true.
But, being well grounded, and after dealing with the Era of Three Emperor's, and seeing the sheer chaos/bloodshed/pain all of that involved, plus Taal giving his vocal undeniable approval to Magnus more than any of the other candidates that the Cult helped sponsor, I think that even if the Hierarchs of Talabecland would be more than willing, the other supermajority of Hierarchs might not have been. Being as decentralized as they are, there is no doubt that it is possible for significant internal politics to be a thing.
Heck, might try to work this into an omake or something.
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I mean, they absolutely have a ton of internal politics within the church, they've just got more autocephaly than a hydra and all that, no problem.
What I was getting at was more that the hierarchs of Taal and Rhya don't have quite that essential need to play politics with the 'secular' lords around them as a side effect of doing their thing at all. The church of Sigmar really can't ignore the local lords or vice versa. The church of Ulric can ignore the local lords and vice versa, but only if both sides are comfortable with there being two major centers of army power in the province that don't coordinate.
Taal and Rhya, while not by any means without force and significance, don't have to get involved in external politics to quite the same extent.
What I was getting at was more that the hierarchs of Taal and Rhya don't have quite that essential need to play politics with the 'secular' lords around them as a side effect of doing their thing at all. The church of Sigmar really can't ignore the local lords or vice versa. The church of Ulric can ignore the local lords and vice versa, but only if both sides are comfortable with there being two major centers of army power in the province that don't coordinate.
Taal and Rhya, while not by any means without force and significance, don't have to get involved in external politics to quite the same extent.
I'm...yeah? I was more responding to Dmol8 if I'm being honest. Like, yeah. You're pretty right on the money already? They don't have to, they can and tried and in DoDA's interpretation they looked at the Eo3E and majority decided it was a bad job, so....yeah. Those are already things I think fit into the puzzle set.
Do Taal and Rhya have some sort of conclaves where the different branches meet up? Like What Morr have?