Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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I'm confused by this assumption of hesitation in Mercs taking our contracts after this

They signed up to defend against a pair of Black Arks. That's already pretty suicidal.

If we actually manage to succeed in driving off or even sinking said Arks? They're deaths are gonna be romanticized to hell and back instead.

If anything the fact that any Mercs wouldve come back at all would raise the Hohenzellerns trust rating by leaps and bounds among the mercenary community
 
Honestly @TehChron I just can't really get behind that because it seems to be based largely on some sort of psychological profiling than an assessment of the battle itself. The Druuchi have fought battles where the goal is outright annihilation and they didn't run from those or change to preserving lives just because things were going in a way antithetical to their mentality. They are perfectly capable of fighting to the death regardless of losses to their own kind.

I'd prefer to fight based on the actual battle situation.
 
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flotter said:
Anyone know what this is supposed to mean?
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Everyone from the High Realm of Talsyn in Athel Loren speaks with a Scottish accent, with personalized Talsyn-dialect Fan-Eltharin.

All of which spawns from Kerillian's insults in Vermintide.

Glaikit mayflies! < foolish; silly; thoughtless mayflies

She also uses scunner, a term of disgust.

So it's all Scottish slang for insults/curses. Some complete, some not.

But yeah.
 
Shine said:
It matches for them too, in that sense.

Every bolt thrower trying to suppress our artillery is one less softening the walls until the Khainites close in to do Glorious Melee, and they'd be hesitant to risk shooting them in the back (I assume they like having skin).

If I were them, I'd be using my artillery as shard throwers to hammer our archers and pikes and burn my last chaff as a living mantlet. After all, the latter would just get in my way to do Glorious Melee for Khaine when we get there regardless.
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Except that our guns are on the walls next to our infantry. Shooting at one is also shooting at the other.
 
Altom said:
And your approach deals with the dragon... How exactly? More then that it also lets Druchii bomdard us in return with no reprisal. If you are so afraid of the dragon that you are considering our artillery to be dead men walking you should dedicate more troops to clearing the air, so that when said dragon shows up, our pegasi/Oskana can engage straight away and keep him off our guns, not just blindly hope that we can hit some arbitrary number of casualties that would make them retreat regardless of anything.
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I dont deal with it, I treat it as an environmental hazard to be planned around rather than hoping for the best and wishing it wont happen.

I've said this, actually.

Hence all.the talk about "sell by dates" and "using it before we lose it".

Better to exchange an unreliable shelf life for concrete gains than hoping for the best twice over on an unresolvable stalemate resolving in your favor rather than the opposite.

Its common sense.

Edit: Like, if we force the tempo of the battle to change heavily enough, we straight up might force an opening for our Steam Tanks to barrel on through and sally through their artillery lines to fuck them up.

That wont happen unless we dip them below a certain threshold of bodies they can field. This fight wont be won by artillery duels, itll be won by sallies.

Edit2: Also what's this talk about committing forces to the dragon ahead of time?

Natasha and roland are going to have their hands full with the Sorceresses present as things stand. We don't have the leeway for that kind of silliness.
 
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Altom said:
Except that our guns are on the walls next to our infantry. Shooting at one is also shooting at the other.
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Shard throwers are not optimal to kill entrenched artillery, and bolts comparatively inefficient for mass infantry (barring bloody chaos warriors) (IIRC the tabletop correctly). The crews need to pick what each shot is specialised to slay.

Edit: I'm backing Tec Chron because I'm very confident that the Khainites (and the Savage Hunt skin-shirts) will, upon imbibing the obligatory heart stopping semi arcane rage cocktail, be trying to swarm into close quarters ASAP. If we were fighting more sane elves of any sort, I'd expect their artillery to matter more and their shock troopers to matter less.
 
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TehChron said:
I dont deal with it, I treat it as an environmental hazard to be planned around rather than hoping for the best and fishing it wont happen.

I've said this, actually.

Hence all.the talk about "sell by dates" and "using it before we lose it".

Better to exchange an unreliable shelf life for concrete gains than hoping for the best twice over on an unresolvable stalemate resolving in your favor rather than the opposite.

Its common sense.
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You do realise that the dragon can both smash the wall and strafe our troops.? That it would allow ithe druchii to overrun them even after taking some casualties? Dragon is not a single use, single target threat. If you believe it invulneralbe, the battle is already lost, regardless of what we do. Fortunately, as the update has clearly shown, it is not. So your entire argument is based on a false premise.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Honestly @TehChron I just can't really get behind that because it seems to be based largely on some sort of psychological profiling than an assessment of the battle itself. The Druuchi have fought battles where the goal is outright annihilation and they didn't run from those or change to preserving lives just because things were going in a way antithetical to their mentality. They are perfectly capable of fighting to the death regardless of losses to their own kind.

I'd prefer to fight based on the actual battle situation.
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I mean, the other potential wincon is 100% death, and ultimately what does that change regarding the rest of my assessment?
 
Altom said:
You do realise that the dragon can both smash the wall and strafe our troops.? That it would allow ithe druchii to overrun them even after taking some casualties? Dragon is not a single use, single target threat. If you believe it invulneralbe, the battle is already lost, regardless of what we do. Fortunately, as the update has clearly shown, it is not. So your entire argument is based on a false premise.
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And our own forces will inevitably respond to it after it makes its move to try and corral it. The best way to.enable that swiftly happening is freeing up our superheavies and Heroes to have such leeway. Which we can do by means of mass slaughter to relieve pressure on them.

In the absence of necromancers, corpses cant climb walls.

That being said...

"Invulnerable", huh. The dragon shook off getting gelded.in mid air and an extremely.rigorous boarding attempt before free falling from god knows how high up to survive impact, only finally dying when Urgdug finished it off with a love tap and head snap combo.

You realize matching this scale of damage is an unreasonable ask.from our rank and file, surely?

Recognizing breakthrough potential is basic threat assessment. A super heavy aerial cavalry with mass damage potential is gonna inflict a lot of damage unopposed until a sufficiently powerful response is mustered.

Why would you pretend that saying as much is false pretenses? Its demonstrably true. "The very latest update provides evidence" of that, in fact
 
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[X] Unleash the Martyrs!

Not sure about the plan "kill all the Druchii". The logic seems to be "they need them to man the Black Arks and control the slaves", but somehow I doubt all of the sailors have been sent into battle, and we're also getting rid of a lot of slaves for them
 
TehChron said:
And our own forces will inevitably respond to it after it makes its move to try and corral it. The best way to.enable that swiftly happening is freeing up our superheavies and Heroes to have such leeway. Which we can do by means of mass slaughter to relieve pressure on them.

In the absence of necromancers, corpses cant climb walls.

That being said...

"Invulnerable", huh. The dragon shook off getting gelded.in mid air and an extremely.rigorous boarding attempt before free falling from god knows how high up to survive impact, only finally dying when Urgdug finished it off with a love and head snap combo.

You realize matching this scale of damage is an unreasonable ask.from our rank and file, surely?
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Relieving the pressure is only going to happen if the druchii army is small enough that our bombardment will reduce it to the number of combatatnts less then the frontage of the wall would allow. Or, to put it in other way, if only 1000 druchii can fight at the same time because the rest won't fit on the walls and they brought 10000, it would not matter if our ranged troops and artillery kill 1000 or 3000 because there would still more then enough druchii to fight and to replace the immidiate casualties.
Furhtermore, the only assets we have that can physically engage the dragon are our ranged troops and our flyers. Our other stuff, like tanks or ogres can't do much to a dragon because they have no means of hitting it. Our flyers would not be affected by the number of druchii infantry period. Our ranged troops would be affected by boltthrower suprresive fire much more then they would be affected by the numbers of druchii on the field.
 
Dragonofelder said:
Not sure about the plan "kill all the Druchii". The logic seems to be "they need them to man the Black Arks and control the slaves", but somehow I doubt all of the sailors have been sent into battle, and we're also getting rid of a lot of slaves for them
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Weve already gotten rid of almost all their slaves, though

That's commented on by Anna and the only reason this would even work in the first place.

Altom said:
Relieving the pressure is only going to happen if the druchii army is small enough that our bombardment will reduce it to the number of combatatnts less then the frontage of the wall would allow. Or, to put it in other way, if only 1000 druchii can fight at the same time because the rest won't fit on the walls and they brought 10000, it would not matter if our ranged troops and artillery kill 1000 or 3000 because there would still more then enough druchii to fight and to replace the immidiate casualties.
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And you're basing this on what numbers, exactly?
 
TehChron said:
Weve already gotten rid of almost all their slaves, though

That's commented on by Anna and the only reason this would even work in the first place.
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You still have not explained what makes you believe that the soldiers on the battlefield right now and the essential Black ark crew are same people.

TehChron said:
And you're basing this on what numbers, exactly?
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The exact numbers don't matter. What matters is that druchii have enough to assault the walls. They do, or at least they believe they do.
This same question applies to you in equal measure. Why do you believe that our bombardment can have significant effect on the druchii numbers in whatever unknown period of time we have before the dragon comes and inevitably annihilates our artillery?
 
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Dragonofelder said:
[X] Unleash the Martyrs!

Not sure about the plan "kill all the Druchii". The logic seems to be "they need them to man the Black Arks and control the slaves", but somehow I doubt all of the sailors have been sent into battle, and we're also getting rid of a lot of slaves for them
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Oh, no, that's not the logic. The logic is that their morale will break if we focus on inflicting casualties, that their contempt will shift gears from "the humans don't deserve to live" to "the humans aren't worth this much trouble to kill."
 
Ganurath said:
Oh, no, that's not the logic. The logic is that their morale will break if we focus on inflicting casualties, that their contempt will shift gears from "the humans don't deserve to live" to "the humans aren't worth this much trouble to kill."
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I mean if this was a typical raid, yes, but it's not. Pride may have started this, but it could also screw then over by refusing to accept they have to fall back.
 
Altom said:
You still have not explained what makes you believe that the soldiers on the battlefield right now and the essential Black ark crew are same people.
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Why do you think I referenced the Helots the last time you tried bringing it up?

That is the answer.

Quite literally. You can replace the answer with Komissars or the SS or whatever you prefer but a large reason those states can even function is due to a preponderance of force being held by the ruling castes.

They need bodies to corral slaves and other subordinates and ward off potential threats. That's a logistical reality.
 
Ganurath said:
Oh, no, that's not the logic. The logic is that their morale will break if we focus on inflicting casualties, that their contempt will shift gears from "the humans don't deserve to live" to "the humans aren't worth this much trouble to kill."
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They are druchii. They are driven by arrogance and hate, not fear. Hell, the guy we impaled on his own lance? He hated us till the last breath even when staring in the eyes of death. That's WoG.

TehChron said:
Why do you think I referenced the Helots the last time you tried bringing it up?

That is the answer.

Quite literally. You can replace the answer with Komissars or the SS or whatever you prefer but a large reason those states can even function is due to a preponderance of force being held by the ruling castes.

They need bodies to corral slaves and other subordinates and ward off potential threats. That's a logistical reality.
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Again, what makes you think that they don't have those slavedrivers back on the Ark? What make you think that the druchii threw literally everything into this fight, that they emptied the ark to the last elf, instead of thinking long- term and leaving at least a skeleton crew back on the ark? And keep in mind that the number of slaves they have back there has very much been reduxed. We saw women, children and elderly among the Shackled after all.
 
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Just really hope we can maintain last wall now that hopefully no more exploding Shackled to deal with and cause really don't want to lose city in general.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
I mean if this was a typical raid, yes, but it's not. Pride may have started this, but it could also screw then over by refusing to accept they have to fall back.
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That's the logic behind my argument of there being a light at the end of the tunnel sure, but it doesn't change the rest of my point about this being the best and most efficient way to kill the Druchii themselves.

The arguments moved past husbanding strength, since that isnt on the table in the absence of a reserve capable of containing the third dragon rider immediately

Our only way forward is through
 
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TehChron said:
They need bodies to corral slaves and other subordinates and ward off potential threats. That's a logistical reality.
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My dude you literally just said they ran out of the slaves when dragonfelder brought it up.
TehChron said:
Weve already gotten rid of almost all their slaves, though

That's commented on by Anna and the only reason this would even work in the first place.
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I honestly think the debate needs to be consolidated into salient points, because i am quite frankly getting lost on who is trying to pick apart what.
 
torroar said:
Another wave of Shackled is coming, yes, but these ones are garbed in armor fit for knights of the Empire. Or, perhaps, Chaos Warriors. That alone would be trouble, but they are not alone. There are further beasts, a handful more hydras, and that would be all the worse, but of course that cannot be it either.

Behind them all, finally deign to touch the battlefield in number, come the Druchii.

Ranks and ranks of Dreadspears come in perfect lockstep formation, deathly silent as they order their greatest chaff ahead of them and towards your forces. Amongst their number are powerful looking bolt throwers, pushed ahead by grim faces operators. They come as a forest of sharp black metal, gilded with gold-looking alloys around some of their shields and spears. In vaguely organized mobs interspersed here and there, come Sisters of Slaughter and Witch Elves both. Two heavy mobile Cauldrons of Blood are rolling forth as well, cackling and cavorting Death Hags atop them. Along their flanks, in all their terrible glory, come contingents of Cold One Knights and Black Ark Corsairs, but it is the ones at the absolute forefront of the Druchii host behind the Shackled and remaining War Hydras that catches your eye
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For reference:

These are the dudes we would be hitting with Artillery. All of our artillery. And then hitting with our Flagellants and our cavalry and hoping that the rest are softened up enough that our Ogres and other defenders can finish them off.

These arent cheap and super expendable forces anymore.

Everything that dies from this point here costs.

pucflek said:
My dude you literally just said they ran out of the slaves when dragonfelder brought it up.
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Do you really expect them to not try and get more to replace their losses at the earliest available opportunity or something?

A lack of chaff is a temporary state for them. Druchii take time to raise up to standard, chaff doesn't.
 
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