What about trains to other provinces? Are they blocked by forests too?
The problem isn't that we can't build a train track through a forest, the problem is that the presence of greenskins, beastmen, and other things makes it impossible to keep long and mostly undefended train tracks safe. Keeping the major roads safe is enough of a challenge and we don't have to keep a watch of all of them all the time on the off chance that a band might appear and destroy a part of it.

There are infrastructure projects we can do, like the lighthouse or maybe something for the roads, but trains aren't really feasible.
 
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What about trains to other provinces? Are they blocked by forests too?
We are a decentralized government. Different provinces in which the other Elector Counts hold absolute power. What makes you think, that they would agree to it? Don't even start with economic opportunities, because it would be an absolute nightmare. Who gets the revenue? Who belong the trains and the tracks to? Are they ours? If so, why would they allow us build them? Does it belong to every province/EC? If so, who pays for them?

The Emperor has next to no power, so it being an overarching organization is just a joke.

I will give you a reference...

Do you know how hard it was to build an interstate train system during the time of the German Confederation (1814-1867)? Every state had their own tolls and border laws, which really didn't work together. Those were abolished in 1867 (Norddeutscher Bund/North German Confederation or as I like to call it: Prussia Deluxe).

Trains and tracks were build before this (1835 Nürnberg --> Fürth), but those were mostly based inside the individual member states.

To do it for the entire Empire you need a more powerful and centralized government or one member state being absurdly more influential in proportion to all others (Prussia in 1867 (Norddeutsche Bund) and 1871 (German Empire)), so that they can force it upon all others. Ostland does not have this power or influence. Heck we have a good year, if we keep whatever monsters exist out of the populated areas of our Province.

Just going at this happy go lucky is an infringement on the individual power of every Elector Count.
 
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If we're talking about advancements in steam power, I would like to see steam-powered saws and sawmills eventually.
those are things we will most certainly get later down the line at some point , cause by the end times both Altdorf and Nuln would have become semi industrialized high fantasy steampunk cities with stuff like steam powered gates , steam powered cranes , steam powered prostatic limps and more . so what your asking about is most certainly on the table
 
We are a decentralized government. Different provinces in which the other Elector Counts hold absolute power. What makes you think, that they would agree to it? Don't even start with economic opportunities, because it would be an absolute nightmare. Who gets the revenue? Who belong the trains and the tracks to? Are they ours? If so, why would they allow us build them? Does it belong to every province/EC? If so, who pays for them?
Your argument is absolutely true, but while there are massive headaches both before and after a project is complete (see the historical drama of the Ostland-Hochland bridge) it doesn't absolutely stop these kinds of projects from happening. This isn't an argument in favour of railroads though, just pointing out that it is possible to cooperate with other provinces on infrastructure even though it is a diplomatic minefield.
 
Your argument is absolutely true, but while there are massive headaches both before and after a project is complete (see the historical drama of the Ostland-Hochland bridge) it doesn't absolutely stop these kinds of projects from happening. This isn't an argument in favour of railroads though, just pointing out that it is possible to cooperate with other provinces on infrastructure even though it is a diplomatic minefield.
I suppose it can work with Nordland. They just don't really have a need for it, because their actual populated area is really small. Ostermark is a cut off from Ostland by Kislev and Talabecland so it will atleast run into complications.

Why do I get the feeling, that Kislev would be more receptive to this then the other Empire states? A general transportation system owned by the state, easily taxable, providing access to people's identification, streamlining their traveling paths and providing control over the regions, that normally followed their largest city?

If I were the Tzarina I would jump on this. Wouldn't help with the current civil war (probably only inflame it further), but it is so far away, that it probably won't even matter.
 
Between the Beastmen, renegades, bandits, greenskins, and mutants, getting a long train rail line just ain't worth it. Short distances is doable and within a city, but at that point, it's more of a novelty project (Building underground also presents its own set of challenges, none of which are no less dangerous.)

I would say even building proper roads, maintaining and guarding it to connect us to other states is already a challenge, let alone a train line.

Now if we want to make more vapor powered stuff for our industry to make even more stuff, that has a higher chance of happening. Even vapor-engine ships or boats are more likely to happen than a train line.
 
What about trains to other provinces? Are they blocked by forests too?
It's really not the forest. It's the fact the land simply isn't secure. It'd be far too easy to break the track just enough to cause a derail. And most enemies would be capable of much more damage than that. Instead we'd be better off figuring out a trackless variant. Maybe a steam powered horse carriage?
 
It's really not the forest. It's the fact the land simply isn't secure. It'd be far too easy to break the track just enough to cause a derail. And most enemies would be capable of much more damage than that. Instead we'd be better off figuring out a trackless variant. Maybe a steam powered horse carriage?
It's probably one if the reasons the Dwarfs use Gyrocopters instead of trains. They simply don't have the manpower to hold potential stations and secure the Underway. Instead they fly in order to quickly and reliably send messages, which is ironic given their origins.
 
What about trains to other provinces? Are they blocked by forests too?
they aren't so much blocked by the forest as they are blocked by the forests inhabitants like the giants , beastmen ,green skins , massive spiders and all the other hostile things that live in the forests who are too numerous or powerful to purge or fully protect against with patrols while also being often strong enough to rip the rail way tracks straight out of the ground
 
[CANON] Pilgrims' Paths - Massgamer
Pilgrims' Paths

All throughout the Old World there were places of holy significance to the various non-tainted and heretical cults that called it home, from the most famous to the most obscure. Among the faithful there were those that considered a holly duty and honor to travel to there various places throughout their lives to pray and become closer to their chosen god in the process, most often traveling humbly to each location with their own two legs and leaving themselves open to the risks of such long-distance travel in the process. However, faith and conviction would be their shield and therefore nothing short of death would stop them.

And in recent years many pilgrims of various faiths have found themselves drawn to a province in the Empire that for the longest time many considered lacking in piety on a good day, Ostland. For many things have changed since those days...

---

Roald Dalman could help but marvel at the diversity of the streets of Wolfenburg as he made his way through the crowded and busy streets, with many from all walks of life and even races living together in seeming harmony. Few places had his pilgrims taken him that could compare, such as Nuln and Altdorf to name a few.

This became even more apparent as his feet took him to the 'Smokelands' of the city, where smoke clouded the skies and the cacophony of people was replaced with that of industry. It was very much in contrast to the more peaceful settings of other holy places he had been too, but at the same time fitting given his destination.

Roald would soon find himself in front of the famous, or infamous he supposed if one came from the south such as he, Ostland School of Gunnery and Engineering, a place to rival its southern cousins in the creation of tools large and small to better than Empire as a whole either through production or more commonly in battle. One of said products stood just within the front gate and before the entrance to the main building entrance, a symbol not just for the school but of Sigmar's strength and blessing upon this place just as the Emperor's seal was.

He kneeled and prayed before a raised platform where sat a seemingly normal looking cannonball, one of countless made by this very school, and a plaque set under it inscribed with the words, 'To Hell and Back', the unofficial motto of school itself.

But he knew this cannonball was far from ordinary, as did a few other pilgrims who were in prayer with him, before it since this holy artifice had been blessed during the war against the traitor Gruber by the War Priests of Sigmar, where it would find itself launched by a mighty cannon to bring great death to many heretics only to find itself thrown into a portal into the realm of Ruinous Powers itself, specifically the horrid Nurgle. The action would destabilize the portal, causing it to explode violently and kill many heretics and daemons, and cause the traitor Gruber himself to rage through his servants at the saviors of Nordland for 'daring' insult his foul master with the act.

But that is not all, for later in a separate battle, the final in fact, much later the cannonball would return to the physical realm after another portal was opened up by a foul sorcerer, blasting through the portal to kill sorcerer as if it reminded in midflight the whole time before finally coming to a stop. Truly, Sigmar's power and guidance was upon it as the cannonball braved the horrors of the Warp itself only to return and fights once more!

After the battle the cannonball was collected, found to be untainted from its journey through the hellish realm, and given over to the Count who would then have it placed with honor in front of the school.

Many among the cult later would claim that such a relic should be held in honor within a temple, but others would say it was being honored very much as is in its current place. Inspiring all engineers to craft wonders that would be used in the empire Sigmar crafted defense.

For to fight hell and overcome it, was truly words to live by in his name.

---

Ludger Seger sweated and panted like a dog as he and others worked tireless in raising and placing the heavy stone blocks that made up one of the several walls that would defend this location. He was hungry, thirsty, tired and all manner of feelings that in lesser men would have driven him to the ground and refuse to move, but unlike lesser men he and his brothers were driven by a force greater than all of the combined in the name of Ulric and by the gods would they not fail him. For what could be holier than building a fortress-temple around the Iceborn Flame, a child of the Flame of Ulric made in glorious victory over the forces of chaos itself!

Besides, it is not as if they were being worked to death, though Ludger certainly wouldn't have complained if it was required of him.

He was but one of hundreds, thousands, at this point one can hardly could count the number of pious pilgrims who had come to gaze upon the Iceborn Flame, further proof of Ulric's strength and power, and had been drive by religious drive to assist in the temple's construction, a vast holdfast that would hold the countless faithful and its defenders as well when it was complete. It would be like a much smaller but no less hard to crack Middenheim if all of them had their way!

While not all pilgrims that came to see the Iceborn Flame remained for long, each devoted at least part of the year if not more in assisting in the contraction efforts, especially during winter when Ulric's gaze was upon them all the most, testing them through his time to work up a sweat even in the freezing conditions. Ludger and other brothers and sisters never complained, and in fact their work seemed to go even faster during the winter, surely being empowered by the Father of Wolves! Ludger himself had promised himself to remain till the job was complete and nothing less, because he wished to see the end result of his piety no matter what.

He would even be willing to take up an axe or hammer if needed to combat the monsters and other dark things that, clearly sensing Ulric's power, came out of the surrounding forests to attempt to tear down their efforts, but the White Wolves and other warriors defended this place with zeal to the point it was rare for them to stop working even during an attack. Ludger honestly kinda wished it did get serious enough for him to take part some days.

Nevertheless, he and many others would labor for as long as needed with a smile so that one day this temple would become another beacon of Ulric's might in the north and a constant black eye in the face of the Ruinous Powers forevermore.

---

Sunna Mahler peacefully partook of Taal and Rhya's splendor next to the waterfall that flowed into the pond and which then flowed down a stream through the forest while birds sang and other small numbers rustled about, even a few deer drinking water from the pond not far away, nature's beauty truly on display. Such a shame such a place was unable to be reached until recently, lost to time long before the rise of Sigmar and only revealed after years since the Everliving's death.

Truly, with the foul vampire gone while the Forest of Shadows was not exactly safe it was at least much more traversable for the followers of the married elder gods. Even more so since the induction of the ogres of Ostland into their faith, with one of their number even now acting as a silent sentinel in this place, bare of everything besides a simple loincloth and a wooden gutplate, a large club fashioned from a fallen tree at his side. Truly at peace with his surroundings in such a way his cousins from the east could likely never achieve.

Many were quite shocked at first at the ogres interest in the cult, but faster than most could imagine the ogres adapted to the King and Queen of the wilds tenants and lessons well, becoming amazing new members who did their duties well across the province.

More than one holy place of Taal and Rhya could boast an ogre defender in some shape or form, happily killing those dark forces who would seek or destroy nature and shape it towards their own foul ends.

Indeed, there was a great revival of worship of Taal and Rhya across the province, though subtly and mostly in the rural parts of it. Its people no longer fearing the forests as much as they had for generations, still respecting the danger a great deal certainly, and actually ventured more within to truly experience Taal's splendor.

And truly bless those souls who worked hard to purge of forests of dark things every year, so that each step was made to make Taal and Rhya's realm pure.

---

Horlos Hogbloom, Mootland born and raised, could not help but take a deep breath of the inside of the Great Kitchen of Rossin of the Northern March, taking in deep the various muttons, beefs, porks, and other foods common out here in the grasslands of Ostland. Truly, Esmerelda's blessing was here as well!

Despite what many back home thought of Ostland, and to be fair it certainly was a rough place, it was the birthplace of a proper cult of Esmerelda that even now had religious importance even if the Mootland was on its way to copying its ways. Back home his family always gave honor to her, much more than most halflings, and therefore he considered it a honor to come to the province to tour, explore and learn about the faith before bringing it back home alongside others. Namely he loved visiting all the Kitchens he could find, sampling their meals with religious zeal matching that of any human Sigmarite or Ulrician.

For this was truly a holy mission!

After visiting the Grand Kitchen, still the greatest of them all in terms of size and meals, he had gone across the province partaking of the lesser but no less amazing Great Kitchens and comparing them all. Each one was unique due to the regional foods available and always had some local flare others would lack. No two kitchens served meat, pies, vegetables, fruits and more alike after all! For no chief worth the name did not experiment and truly expand flavor as much as possible.

When he wasn't eating he was also reading, particularly of the Good Cookbook and all the recipes within that seemed to grow everyday here he was here.

No doubt, this was the most delicious religious journey he was sure anyone could partake!

---

Savino Pasqual, Morrite of Tilea, could not help but feel a somber sense of peace as he explored the temple of Morr within Wolfenburg, something of its like having no true match in his home country. Still, he could not help be find it pleasing in a way, like Morr's own gaze was always within him no matter what while walking its halls.

At first he was concerned about the presence of so many not of the cult also walking about, but over time, since he had come to Ostland and visited the various gardens and smaller temples, he had come to not mind their presence much at all. In fact, he was actually glad so many were so welcoming of Morr rather than fearful as he had seen so many times elsewhere.

Seeing families willingly bring loved ones who had passed to their doorstep so the proper rituals might be preformed, speaking of their dreams and nightmares to the priests to help guide them through them, listening to the high priest's sermons... it was all so... more. And to think that this all didn't exist not so long ago as well, it was humbling in the extreme.

Many still did not believe that Morr's faithful should be so connected with the living, but in the end all that mattered was that Morr's strictures were followed and as far as he had seen that has always been the case wherever he wandered. Garden to garden, seeing the dead of countless generations all at peace while the living honored them, honored Morr as a whole.

Savino might just continue traveling for a bit. After all, there were still Doomings to give to those who needed it.
 
Sorry for double post, but found something interesting on wikia for Cult of Morr in its scriptures.
  • Protect the dead.
  • Observe all the rites of funeral and wake.
  • Oppose necromancers and the Undead wherever and whenever they are encountered.
  • Be respectful and considerate of the dead and their families.
  • Pay heed to your dreams.
  • Never refuse to conduct a funeral.
  • Never allow the dead to be raised, unless given special permission by Morr.

This implies that you can technically be a necromancer within the cult of Morr if clear Morr lets it happen, like through divine lore or something. I wonder if any cultists have ever tried that kinda thing before and if successful what that would mean in general.

Can you imagine if Arthur possibly raised some dead soul with Morr's blessing? I wonder what that would look like since most undead are Dhar animated, so maybe something like holy Shyish?
 
Sorry for double post, but found something interesting on wikia for Cult of Morr in its scriptures.


This implies that you can technically be a necromancer within the cult of Morr if clear Morr lets it happen, like through divine lore or something. I wonder if any cultists have ever tried that kinda thing before and if successful what that would mean in general.

Can you imagine if Arthur possibly raised some dead soul with Morr's blessing? I wonder what that would look like since most undead are Dhar animated, so maybe something like holy Shyish?
I think that very much has to do with spells like Shyish Knocks of the Departed or however it is named. It is likely Morrite priests have some similar method of calling deceased to chat them up in dire need, which i think is what this specificpermission stretches to.
EDIT:
Looked at Wiki. This is sourced to 2nd edition Roleplay as Divine lore of Morr spell:

Speech of Morr: The spirit of a dead Human appears before you, and answers a number of questions. You must have the body or a portion of the body the spirit once possessed. The spirit cannot lie and must answer, but it can choose how much information to give. The spirit is limited to information it knew in life. If asked something it does not know the answer to, it says nothing, and the question counts against those you may ask. Since the spirit is released from the realm of the dead with Morr's permission, any corpse may only be targeted by this spell, regardless of the caster, once.

I took the liberty of underscoring perhaps the most pertinent part of the paragraphs wrt the scriputre you pointed out.
 
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I wonder if the Dwarf who gave us the Vapour engine plans will turn up to look at the Vapour Tank?
Not certain but I think Alexandria got the design for the engine in the tower during her little sojurn to the west I think it was. And the Blueprint for the tank came from studying the food tank that Freddie bought off of the Halflings of the Moot.

Speaking of now that we have a working tank of our own we should probably return that food tank if it still exists to the Halflings since Freddie was told that it was used for holidays and festivals.
 
Not certain but I think Alexandria got the design for the engine in the tower during her little sojurn to the west I think it was. And the Blueprint for the tank came from studying the food tank that Freddie bought off of the Halflings of the Moot.

Speaking of now that we have a working tank of our own we should probably return that food tank if it still exists to the Halflings since Freddie was told that it was used for holidays and festivals.
The wing suit blueprints came from Tilea, the engine came from Sven, Anna's dwarf friend who's a bit of a radical and handed off the blueprints to her specifically so it would be developed and put into use faster than if he had to wait hundreds for years for approval like he would have with dwarfs.
 
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Speaking of now that we have a working tank of our own we should probably return that food tank if it still exists to the Halflings since Freddie was told that it was used for holidays and festivals.
we could just make them a new one instead , for a price of course after all we are not running a charity plus the moot did sort of price gouge us for the food tank and then tried to rat fuck us with bum trade deal during the elector meet so they've spent any good will we might have for them there for we should treat them in a strictly business kind of way only
 
we could just make them a new one instead , for a price of course after all we are not running a charity plus the moot did sort of price gouge us for the food tank and then tried to rat fuck us with bum trade deal during the elector meet so they've spent any good will we might have for them there for we should treat them in a strictly business kind of way only
Freddy is running a charity, technically. Freddy aided Nuln for free, Freddy helped out at Karak Ungor for Free, Freddy helped Nordland for free, Freddy helped Laurelorn and Athel Lauren for free. Freddy aided the everqueen for free. Freddy aided Moro for free.

Does the average reader expect to be paid for charity?

Freddy has, so far, sold the seed drill to the provinces of the Empire he has been able to.
 
I think that very much has to do with spells like Shyish Knocks of the Departed or however it is named. It is likely Morrite priests have some similar method of calling deceased to chat them up in dire need, which i think is what this specificpermission stretches to.
EDIT:
Looked at Wiki. This is sourced to 2nd edition Roleplay as Divine lore of Morr spell:

Speech of Morr: The spirit of a dead Human appears before you, and answers a number of questions. You must have the body or a portion of the body the spirit once possessed. The spirit cannot lie and must answer, but it can choose how much information to give. The spirit is limited to information it knew in life. If asked something it does not know the answer to, it says nothing, and the question counts against those you may ask. Since the spirit is released from the realm of the dead with Morr's permission, any corpse may only be targeted by this spell, regardless of the caster, once.

I took the liberty of underscoring perhaps the most pertinent part of the paragraphs wrt the scriputre you pointed out.
Still, that technically means a priest of Morr with the divine lore can summon a ghost at the very least, which makes me wonder if they couldn't summon more righteous Spirit Hosts to aid the living, basically LOTR style army of the dead wise.

Heck, Hexwraiths are outright stated to serve Morr by hunting down those that have cheated death, only serving the undead in turn because they get trapped and chained into their service by powerful magic users. Does this mean the Cult of Morr could summon them if need be?

I for one would love idea of Cult of Morr using Hexwraiths more often, working with them even so they are less likely to be enslaved.
 
Sorry, but I think that each and everyone of your examples misses several important parts. Namely IC and OOC motivation, player expectations and experience, IC code of conduct and OOC knowledge about the factions/characters we are interacting with and the importance of symbolism.

Let's get started.

Freddy is running a charity, technically. Freddy aided Nuln for free,
He didn't. Helping Nuln wasn't 'for free' it was an obligation that every member of the Empire and many Questers share. To contribute and continue the fight against the forces of Chaos. Losing Nuln would have been extremely detrimental for the entire Empire and by extension Ostland.

There's charity in freely giving something and then there's obligation and duty, which expects you to perform. The difference is the bond you have to these things. If someone or something is important to you, then it's not a charity to help them, but a matter of course. Feudal societies and nationalistic states had this sense of duty and honor. It's a large difference and definitely a different mindset.
Freddy helped out at Karak Ungor for Free,
We all expected the Dwarfs to reward us or for it to benefit us or the Empire in the long run, if only to fear no Greenskins attacks from the east. There was a cost benefit involved. This comes in addition to the prior stated sense of obligation. We as players OOC knew how much the Dwarfs lost and how hard they were fighting for the last 3500 years. We helped out, because it was an obligation to do so. Dwarfs are no charity case.
Freddy helped Nordland for free,
No. We helped, because having Chaos in your neighborhood is just a recipe ripe for disaster. Us giving them food for free is charity (or just basic human decency), but certainly not providing military aid for our nominal ally and fellow member state.
Freddy helped Laurelorn and Athel Lauren for free.
The first time (in Nordland vs. Gruber) was a deal.
The second time (vs. Beastmen) was an accident, which we couldn't really turn away from without endangering Nordland as well.
The third one (Ariel etc.) was a clusterfuck and basically collateral damage. We just went on a tour of vengeance and shit got in our way. Helping out was a side effect.
Freddy aided the everqueen for free.
That's basic self preservation.
Who would ever demand anything from the Everqueen? Other then that, mostly the same reasons as the Dwarfs and just... You don't demand or even ask for something in the presence of certain individuals.
Freddy aided Moro for free.
That one I give you, but Moro had a lot of quid pro quo with us in terms of information and our help was what got her into most of the political problems in the first place.
Does the average reader expect to be paid for charity?
Everything has a price. Especially charity. A prize must not be material in nature, but can be more on the emotional/symbolistic side as well. That's why so many Elector Counts were wary of Freddy, because doing things like this normally came with the cost of being in that person's debt.
We don't expect it from the Empire anymore, since they don't just agree to our usual quid pro quo and we adapted by just hanging prize tags to most things, which aren't relevant for the safety and existence of the Empire.
Freddy has, so far, sold the seed drill to the provinces of the Empire he has been able to.
Indeed he has and people were glad for it. Selling it provides others with the incentive of creating it themselves and strengthens the market. You could call it intellectual charity, eh?
 
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