Mmmmmm...nah.

I'm unashamed of leaning on the 'fantasy' part of Warhammer Fantasy when it comes to certain things. Like the alcohol stuff (though I swear I have a chunker of a post somewhere where I discuss the Alcoholism in the quest and IRL and how it can horrifically affect body and mind but also magic and what not but can't seem to locate it at the moment) is one thing, yeah, that might be a smidge unrealistic. But so is dwarf brews and XXXXXX being a thing and so on.

I've actually had a post on this sort of thing before:

I was wondering when this day would come, and so it has.

Here's the thing.

In IRL I don't drink. At all. I have seen it ruin people, and I do not wish to imbibe it myself.

But this is isn't IRL. The entire framework of the quest is that it's taking place in a fantasy land and universe. Ones where alcohol can be magical, healing you and fortifying you. It's stated that certain kinds of dwarf alcohol can sustain one for weeks without any other source of nutrition. Where there are mind-bending monsters just beyond the walls waiting on the road, out the forest, down in the cave. I am fully aware that Alcoholism is no laughing matter in real life, it can be crippling to the body and ruinous to friend's and family. But the conceit here is, again, the word fantasy. There are terrible poisons, curses, and yes repercussions to over-drinking, narrowing the sense and clouding judgement. In the recent battery of updates, Frederick noted that he was getting considerably drunk, willingly angering others and acting with less diplomacy than he rightly should have.

But for all of that, it is fantasy. The entire concept of the drunken engineering going on is that they drink a lot and then occasionally create insanity like the Doomspheres.

Yes, the Hohenzollerns have favored drinks, but that doesn't mean they get absolutely blasted whenever they're doing magic or fiddling with engineering. Every time that one of the women has gotten pregnant, they claim annoyance that they have to be sober for the pregnancy - but I don't doubt that Valaya Herself probably made some kind of nutritious ale for pregnant women because she was an Ancestor God who had that sort of thing in her domain. Either way, when they need to go sober, they do so. And what about terrible withdrawal symptoms? Well, they have Jade Wizards to help with that, and before they did, they stubbornly fought through them. Do I think that that discredits the effort of IRL people who try to go cold turkey on alcohol and suffer? No. I know that IRL it is often very, very hard. But this isn't IRL, and for the most part these women are capable of strong will, just like some of those IRL who can also do so. Just because here the Priestesses of Shallya might be able to lay a hand down and work the pain away with the merciful divine favor of the White Dove, doesn't mean that the struggle magically disappears for those who suffer IRL.

One example that I think somewhat directly contradicts your purported 'never impairs or makes my judgement worse' condemnation is back when Frederick and Urgdug were getting to know one another during that Elector's Meet. He beat up a noble's son, brawled his way through Nuln guards, broke into the highly secretive engineering facilities and shattered a cannon! Then they went up and he vomited on the roof of the Grand Cathedral of Sigmar. Crimes. Actual crimes, that he should not have done and would not have done if he was more sober. The vomiting part was practically blasphemous, and something he would never do while sober. If you don't think that Frederick wouldn't/doesn't cringe about certain moments that night, regardless of the results, you should.

Just because they have favored drinks shouldn't be cringe worthy, any more than someone saying that they like a particular kind of ice cream. It's the kind they like, when asked what kind they like.

I am aware of just how bad Alcoholism can be in the 21st Century. However, this is not the 21st Century of Earth.

It's Warhammer Fantasy. Certain things are unavoidable components of this make-believe, things like daemons and vampires, elves and dwarfs, magic and mad science.

And that's not to deny that alcohol can't cause problems here either! There are countless guardsmen and highway patrolmen that took a few too many or too strong of a nip and ended up not quite managing to see the goblins or skaven skulking up to shank them in the kidneys. Or the criminals getting away after their robbery. Rash words are spoken due to liquid courage lubricating exchanges, driving things to violence that didn't need to be there. There are abusers out there, just like in real life, and some of it indeed is likely alcohol fueled. To partners and to children.

But here, when Frederick and Natasha get absolutely furious with one another over something as most couples of powerful personalities inevitably do, they can go out in the yard and absolutely wreck the shit out of one another while arguing and while drunk. They can slit throats, cut open bellies, snap bones, and break noses. And then the Jade Wizards and occasionally the priests can manage to put them back together. They can drunkenly argue all the while, then go get counselling from a Head Priest of the God of Dreams about their thoughts, because knowing a lot of stuff about the mind applies there. Then they can talk to one another, sobered up, and reanalyze their points or lack of ones. Here, wing-suits can take a fully grown person up into the air with a tiny bit of work, and in time lightning and steam-powered clockwork horses can be a thing. And while the Jade Wizards can knit or grow back flesh and bone, they can help heal the organs as well. That includes the liver, the veins, the heart, the skin, etc.

Here, while there still exists the inherent issues of Alcoholism for many, there are also ways to mitigate them that don't exist IRL. Divine, Arcane, or just as an aspect of the reality itself (magical berry wine, super dwarf ales conveying strength, potions of healing, etc.) and perhaps, just perhaps, a little bit of unrealistic self-control...as befitting a fantasy.

So while I get that it might make you cringe, it's not going to be going away. It kind of needs to be included in the acceptance that this is a departure from non-fiction, with things that don't correspond or connect to reality in any fashion other than in how it is clear and undeniable departure from it. Skaven are treacherous self-identified ratmen who wish to overrun the world in their Vermintide, whose ways are so ingrained that a Greater Daemon of their Horned Rat God is genuinely creeped out by sincere loyalty. Greenskins are fungus-based organisms whose spores got to Mallus by clinging to the transports of the Old Ones from beyond the planet and integrated their annoyingly adaptable selves into the local biospheres, who love fighting more than anything else, more than food or drink or 'shiny fings'. Beastmen can be created if the Green Moon (which is made up of magically radioactive fantasy! plutonium) hits a cow just right, instantly mutating it. Lizardmen are unaging meat-robots who ride dinosaurs that existed IRL and some that don't. The warping Winds of Chaos have been blowing over the world for thousands and thousands of years from both the North and South poles, subtly changing almost all things through its effects mentally and physically over time. Humans, being so mutable, are definitely recipients of this. A lot of stuff here ain't stuff from IRL, like you stated.

I've previously spoken of the staggering, absolutely monolithic differences in psychology between Mallus humanity and IRL humanity. 2000+ years of Imperial history, starting with close friendships with dwarfs, who literally have an Ancestor God of Home/Hearth/Healing/Brewing as part of their pantheon. A newborn civilization, like a real child, would obviously take inspiration from those older who spend time around them. Thus, drinking culture in the Empire advancing from barbarians and tribesmen to what it is to day, with clear inspiration from the Karaz Ankor. Then we can shift to Ostland, where genuine heart-stopping mind-breaking mortal terror was not a common possibility, but a daily one. The Forest of Shadows was terrifying, cloying, choking, and outside of the big cities, a true and major danger due to its influence and inhabitants. In a way that despite how I describe it, I could not possibly fully encapsulate the sheer issues there compared to any IRL human civilization or settlement in history. So they drank to get rid of the fear enough to get some firewood so you won't freeze to death, to go in and hunt the deer so you won't starve to death. And they drank to live, they drank to die. Drinking one's self to death is absolutely something people in Ostland did/do, as its better than a beastman gutting you and then dragging you along behind their chariot. Or the green moon mutating your son into a Chaos Spawn who will eat you alive. Or, as before, to avoid said dying of exposure or starvation.

I am, in no way, going for an 'alcohol is always good no matter what' stance here, either in Warhammer or reality. But I am going for an 'Warhammer alcohol maybe not so bad as IRL' one. Maybe think of it this way; I don't call it ' A Dynasty of Just Regular Realistic Alcoholism'. It's 'Dynamic Alcoholism', meaning that there's magic and Gods and things going on that aren't necessarily 100% realistic.

It's meant to be an escape from IRL, with a bit of drama, a bit of action, some humor, etc. not a perfect mirror, you know?

I'd apologize but...well, like you mentioned...it is in the title. Sort of part of the quest from its very first days.

Yeah. Fantasy is something I'm not afraid to lean on. Like. I've written some (I would hope) pretty understandable issues in the relationships of the various characters, romance and familial and otherwise. But I won't deny that there's a slightly higher than average of 'happy' going on with the Hohenzollerns, for the most part. Cause, yeah. Just a bit of harmless fantasy. You know? Not that their relationships aren't tested, of course, and have come close to the danger point before, but still.
 
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Clearly you require more first hand experience. To truly experience the pains of the character you yourself created, I demand you shotgun a 6 pack and down a handle of cheap vodka right now!
To understand the pain that Freddy gone through, he'd need to enter an underground MMA tournament, then go into a back alley of a dog fighting ring to wrestle, then take a short bath in acid, then miraculously recover with barely few wounds.

Oh, and he'd need to repeat that 3 times a week for a year.
 
Steam tanks can prob runover goblins or some unlucky regular-sized human that fell flat.

But unless we add more wheels and make them bigger/wider, we're not going to runover anyone properly like what tanks can do. Though the upgrades prob help more in making it stabilize for shots in between.
 
The specific entry in the Army Book mentions this:

'A thick, armored skin protects the whole Steam Tank and the advance of these iron behemoths is terrifying to behold; arrows and sword strokes rebound harmlessly from hulls and enemy warriors are crushed beneath their immense bulk'.

Mechanically, when charging it can do pretty impressive damage. Depending on the steam built up, at least. 1-5 steam points built up, with more steam doing more damage but also risking far worse on the mishap table. At full steam, it will deal the usual D6 of damage but also 5d3 impact hits, which seems like quite a bit, no? If it is right up on something, though, and can't charge, it can specifically attempt to grind someone down with its bulk and wheels, which is doing D3 Strength 6 blows for each steam point used.

Obviously I won't be doing full steam points tables as one would on Tabletop, but I can note that, narratively, D6 is giant strength, generally, albeit while allowing for the whole unclear limits and what not (we've discussed this before)

But up close and personal crash and smush seems to be something that standard Steam Tanks can certainly do for some appreciable damage.
 
Concerning coffee it would be funny if like IRL it increases mental performance and a human wizard drinking it cause adverse magical effects causing people to ban it just like IRL
 
Concerning the coffee plantation, I would much rather have it set up in southern Wissenland or Solland than in Tilea or Estalia. The climate shouldn't be that much worse and only needing to do inter-empire transportation and distribution rather than importing it should be safer and more patriotic, maybe even slightly cheaper (less taxes?) but I'm willing to sacrifice some profit so that we wouldn't be reliant on the Alimento tunnel (which has been sabotaged before).
 
Omake: An Ostland Song of Victory Against the Undead
(to the tune of "You're Dead" by Norma Tanega, of course)

Immortality is your goal
But you've discarded your soul
You're dead, you're dead, you're dead
You're dead and not of this world

Scheme your wicked deeds in advance
The Steel Bull shan't give you the chance
Stay dead, stay dead, stay dead
Stay dead and out of this world

Run fast, flee from the raven
From Morr's wrath you've no haven
You're down, you're down, you're down
You're down and out of this world

Deceive with your wicked eyes
The Bulls will not compromise
You're dead, you're dead, you're dead
You're dead and not of this world

Hear your victims weeping like rain
You'll be repaid tenfold for their pain
Long gone, long gone, long gone
Long gone and out of this world

The hammer strikes and breaks your face
Sigmar smite your inhuman race
You're down, you're down, you're down
You're down and out of this world

All your hopes and ambitions are gone
You've sold out mankind and the world
Stay dead, stay dead, stay dead
You're dead and not of this world
 
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Mechanically, when charging it can do pretty impressive damage. Depending on the steam built up, at least. 1-5 steam points built up, with more steam doing more damage but also risking far worse on the mishap table. At full steam, it will deal the usual D6 of damage but also 5d3 impact hits, which seems like quite a bit, no? If it is right up on something, though, and can't charge, it can specifically attempt to grind someone down with its bulk and wheels, which is doing D3 Strength 6 blows for each steam point used.

Obviously I won't be doing full steam points tables as one would on Tabletop, but I can note that, narratively, D6 is giant strength, generally, albeit while allowing for the whole unclear limits and what not (we've discussed this before)
Huh, we will likely know more after the Vapor Tank is complete but how stable/less likely to explode is it compared to the average steam engine for Steam Tanks? I always assumed the risk was so high with it since no one besides maybe a master dwarf engineer understands how the steam engine works and therefore couldn't figure out its limits very well.

Oh, and I just realized that since we use alcoholic vapor for power source not only could we unleash large amounts of superheated vapor at times like Steam Tanks could but when we do could we light a match or something to fire a huge fireball around the tank for an close range AoE attack?

I might be getting way ahead of myself so forgive me, but just excited in general and also hope we have customization options for each tank. I imagine we/our customers would like the ability to choose which think each tank focuses on.
 
Dudes, I have just had an extremely bad feeling about the coffee thingy...

Imagine that Sabine gets their hand on the coffee, and she uses his extremely keen business sense and she creates a medieval Starbucks business through all the Empire.

Sigmar will probably disown Freddy and his descendants forever...
 
Part of the issues with the Steam Tanks is that they weren't built with any gauges or measuring systems. Literally. As in the entry says that the commander's best bet is to listen real, real good to how gurgely the boiling system is.

You know.

Amidst battle, the screams of the dying, monsters, and magic. With a machine that is explicitly shown to be a mid-to-short range combat application by letting its big cannon get up close without the usual risk of the crew being cut apart.

Just listen to the gurgles.

As for Vapor Tank, just...wait for the turn update? Cause, you know, it's in there?
 
It is noted that the Steam Tanks have become 'increasingly unreliable and inefficient' and are noted as 'ponderous machines' ever since Leonardo went down. As such, we can extrapolate that they used to be much more efficient and even deadlier machines, but the secrets of their construction were lost with him. They can rebuild the things, even when they explode, and they do it meticulously. But by the time of Karl Franz, there were only eight remaining of the original twelve - some unrepairable, some stolen (as we know). And the engineers are super reluctant to deploy them without extreme need, and almost never in large numbers. At the same time, it only took six of them to break WAAAAGH!! Gitrippa in the original timeline.

But yes. No gauges.

Here's the relevant excerpt from the Steam Tank Page with some bits bolded on my part:

In battle, the Engineer Commander of a Steam Tank directs the pressurized steam to whichever portion of the tank requires it, be it the pistons that drive the wheels or the tank's steam-powered weapons. As the Steam Tank is not built with any instruments for determining the pressure in the boiler, the Commander must instead rely on the intensity of the gurgling noises, the hissing sound of steam escaping from the imperfectly sealed piping, and the clouds of vapor that accumulate around him. It is a delicate art to judge how much pressure the boiler can hold, but the higher the pressure, the more options the Commander has at his disposal. If too much pressure builds, the Engineer runs the risk of rupturing the boiler, an event that typically entails a catastrophic effect. In several battles, the Steam Tank has suddenly exploded because of a fatal overpressure, destroyed in a cloud of super-heated vapor and spinning iron shards.

(section about the weapons)

Young Engineers are reluctant to volunteer as Steam Tank crew, as the boilers are renowned for bursting apart and boiling those inside alive. (Remainder of section discusses how the cannon is very loud from inside the tank, and how the commander can stick out of the cupola)
 
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sounds like a lovely machine to work on or with.


by what i mean not at all.
Yeah, a nameless NPC that torroar rolled for awhile back who had potential to be super genius died horribly from steam.
As the Steam Tank is not built with any instruments for determining the pressure in the boiler, the Commander must instead rely on the intensity of the gurgling noises, the hissing sound of steam escaping from the imperfectly sealed piping, and the clouds of vapor that accumulate around him.
I hope Anna has found a means to measure the pressure in her own studies of the device so that its much easier to figure out.

Still, from sounds of it the Vapor Tanks will be in much better shape in general. I look forward to building a small fleet of them over time for ourselves and other provinces that will no doubt pay for it, and I assume it will take one research/military action each just to make one of these wonderful death machines.

I also look forward to customizing them with different weapons, configurations, etc. Having a tank that is simply a huge ram that is constantly running around battlefield will be awesome.
 
Considering Anna's not a wandering eccentric I sure do hope she took precautions like building pressure gauges into the boilers and actually wrote down how to make more of these. If she hasn't then I know exactly what she'll be spending her time doing next turn. Honestly I can't wait to have vapor tanks rolling out, we're going to start seeing some really big changes to how Ostland is viewed throughout the empire.
 
No... gauges...

...I am pretty sure dwarves wouldn't have fucked that up.
I'm pretty sure it's not so much humans being fuck-ups as GW playing to type and gluing idiot balls to anyone who does anything cool. (In this case, Leonardo) Dwarfs are dumb in their own ways about tech, namely getting anything really advanced implemented in the first place.
 
Considering Anna's not a wandering eccentric I sure do hope she took precautions like building pressure gauges into the boilers and actually wrote down how to make more of these. If she hasn't then I know exactly what she'll be spending her time doing next turn. Honestly I can't wait to have vapor tanks rolling out, we're going to start seeing some really big changes to how Ostland is viewed throughout the empire.

Anna was taught by a dwarf and has been made a vulcan by the ice magic.

She incapable of doing something as illogical as not putting in some sort of pressure gauge.

That leonardo was capable of such stupid makes me question his overall mental health.
 
Anna was taught by a dwarf and has been made a vulcan by the ice magic.

She incapable of doing something as illogical as not putting in some sort of pressure gauge.

That leonardo was capable of such stupid makes me question his overall mental health.
well she did forget too put brakes on bikes so its not like her and her father can not do stupid things while doing smart things
 
Anna was taught by a dwarf and has been made a vulcan by the ice magic.

She incapable of doing something as illogical as not putting in some sort of pressure gauge.

That leonardo was capable of such stupid makes me question his overall mental health.
I am pretty sure that pressure gauges are not yet invented in the empire. If so, then not including the as of yet non-existent function in the already complex invention that the steam tank is might be expecting a bit much. It is like calling ancient sailor stupid for not having lemons/limes on their ships to protect against scurvy before they had even a hint of an idea that limes would prevent it.
 
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Leonardo probably didn't feel a need for pressure gauges because his intuitive understanding of the technology was so great that he didn't need gauges to assess what the engine was doing... But the same could not be said for his successors.

I wouldn't call Leonardo stupid for not inventing the pressure gauge along with the steam engine, but it significantly nerfed his invention's effectiveness.
 
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