Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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ninjafish said:
Yeah well give stuff to allies for free. But everyone else gets it at a fair price.
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A little late for that, we sold em to the trident for market value and they're our closest allies.

Also maybe I'm not understanding something, but do we only get a one time infusion from selling seed drills? Shouldn't they be sold like cannons are?
 
I'm pretty sure seed drills will give a large single income and from there give a small but good boost to general trade income, since not like if sold once no one will want a seed drill ever again. Just like gun sales really.

I do wonder what Anna's next big project will be since she finished up lots of major ones after the vaportank is done. Would it be crazy to hire adventurers to look for more lost schematics in general since they are a thing?
 
Just sell them normally I suppose, its effect is already seen so the only thing left is hammering out the whole Rhya and Taal debate over it.
 
Cgce said:
@Marlin

The seed drills are only good in provinces with low population and poor soil.In provinces with a higher population and good soil it will only means a huge number of peasnts beign forced to look for work in other places,so no so good idea.
Also giving them for free will impact how other provinces see us,as a fool,bc one it is to be generous and other to give things for free for no reason.A province need money to run so if we give things away for free will either paint a target on freddy bach bc he is rich,so lets plunder him,or try to inflate the prices as much as we can bc he can afford.
People respect someone who can make a good deal for both parties no someone who give things for free or tries to rob his clients blind.
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Or we could inflate Freddy's reputation of "goldgiver" among the empire. Set an example of giving away things among the empire for free, that can lead to other provinces giving away things to other provinces for free.

Everyone is NOT out to exploit Freddy.

The Seeding Drills have proven their worth in the Northern Trident. Now it is time for you to steadily proliferate them south. If this were the Empire of old, the broken apart wreckage one, you wouldn't even consider this. But you've spent just about most of your life, numerically speaking, in the Empire of Magnus the Pious. As such, the question is not 'if' you will help ensure that the rest of the nation might benefit of increased agricultural yields, but 'how'. Sabine, obviously, agitates that you should sell them for tidy profits. Magnus, on the other hand, in direct contrast to his wife, thinks it might be worth it just to give them out. It would significantly increase the cost, doing so, but it would also be seen as an act of giving and charity in the long run. Or buffoonery, depending on who you're talking to. One province that could surely benefit from this, and would regard you kindly for it, would be Stirland. Even if you do choose to simply outright sell to them, instead of just giving them away, they'll likely be happy.
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The option mentions that Freddy is certain that Stirland would be happy to get the seed drills for free.

Our reputation as a fool is already a thing. Freddy is a fool, but he is a clever fool who took Ostland from it's poor state and thrown into a better state. Freddy married Natasha after all. That one act was insane and foolish, but it worked.

Should we actually risk everything on charity? We hah "risked", everything on charity with the Everqueen, Karak Ungor, and wood elves. What makes giving the seed drills for free from now on so different? Have our close allies pay, but obviously give out the seed drills that are worth the price away to our not-close-allies for free.

That looks like a "you owe me" message to me. Or a "I want to be nice to my enemy" message.
 
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Uh. What's the point in giving it away for free?

They can afford it. And we can use the money, too.

We need money too, in fact. Did you somehow forget that we use money to do stuff for Ostland? Good stuff. Like protecting it. Raising more defenses or more army, or expanding it. Why the hell shouldn't we get the rest of the Empire to buy stuff from us? So long as we aren't cheating them somehow?

Just sell it.

We encourage trade across the entire Empire by selling it. This is a way to say "Hey, we've got stuff that everybody wants! Come buy from us!"

And the Goldgiver reputation was not from this sort of charity! In fact, there was a bighuge post from torroar recently that mentioned it. The Goldgiver reputation was, if I remember correctly...? For paying reparations to Talabecland promptly and fully. (Also potentially for paying the Zhufbar thing, though I don't think so.) It was not for giving massively to charity. It was weregild essentially.

And the bighuge post by torroar pointed out that this worked out, partly, as a way of Freddy saying: "Sure, I'll pay the weregild immediately and in full. It's not skin off my nose." Freddy just... out and paid Talabecland and it was a sign of strength, and all. So, no, I don't agree with this idea at all.

Plus, just -- sell the damn things. Hell, increase prices, even!

That's just good business, isn't it?

Now that everyone has noticed the payoff of the seed drills, we go: 'Ah, and now we are raising the prices.'

Every still gets the drill seeds and still can improve their farming output. But now that they are tested and more proven and been bought by other provinces too, we can raise the prices too.
 
Garlak said:
Uh. What's the point in giving it away for free?

They can afford it. And we can use the money, too.

We need money too, in fact. Did you somehow forget that we use money to do stuff for Ostland? Good stuff. Like protecting it. Raising more defenses or more army, or expanding it. Why the hell shouldn't we get the rest of the Empire to buy stuff from us? So long as we aren't cheating them somehow?

Just sell it.

We encourage trade across the entire Empire by selling it. This is a way to say "Hey, we've got stuff that everybody wants! Come buy from us!"

And the Goldgiver reputation was not from this sort of charity! In fact, there was a bighuge post from torroar recently that mentioned it. The Goldgiver reputation was, if I remember correctly...? For paying reparations to Talabecland promptly and fully. (Also potentially for paying the Zhufbar thing, though I don't think so.) It was not for giving massively to charity. It was weregild essentially.

And the bighuge post by torroar pointed out that this worked out, partly, as a way of Freddy saying: "Sure, I'll pay the weregild immediately and in full. It's not skin off my nose." Freddy just... out and paid Talabecland and it was a sign of strength, and all. So, no, I don't agree with this idea at all.

Plus, just -- sell the damn things. Hell, increase prices, even!

That's just good business, isn't it?

Now that everyone has noticed the payoff of the seed drills, we go: 'Ah, and now we are raising the prices.'

Every still gets the drill seeds and still can improve their farming output. But now that they are tested and more proven and been bought by other provinces too, we can raise the prices too.
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I can support this.
 
Also, don't forget the south is still a lot richer than us. They can afford the payment easily and maybe more.
 
We should also look into double barreling and charcoal options as well if we want to increase base trading income in general, and like said if we do want large single boosts in income selling vaportanks always an option since just having as many of those in general spread around provinces in general.

I'm sure Averland itself will surely want more than a few for the defense of Blackfire Pass at the very least given all the fighting happening down further south that likely looks like nearly hell to look on.
 
Selling the Seed Drills too cheaply might crash food prices. And IIRC Averland has a fairly large agricultural sector(though a lot of it was cattle).

Making the early Seed Drills expensive gives the markets and farmhands more time to adjust.
 
I have a question about the next parts of the Marienburg trip @torroar

Since the winning plan includes at the very top a couple of "search for something and buy it" as we move through the different districts of Marienburg... Are we going to have the option to choose what to buy at the end of that day/update? Or Freddy will simply automatically buy those things that we defined as a priority?
 
So Arianka and or Malal the might be making an appearance in the latest Total War game. This IGN article mentions about exploiting the powers of a dying god:

Total War: Warhammer 3 Announced for 2021 - IGN

Could this be confirmation that the Widow is Arianka? That has some interesting implications on the quest lore. Also it looks like it's 7 legendary lords and 6 factions in the game (one for each chaos god plus Kislev and Cathay). The map is going to be twice the size of the vortex campaign and will extend from the Far East to Kislev and most interestingly "the realms of Chaos". I wasn't even aware there was anything in the realms of chaos except for the gods domains and some crap at the very edges of it.
Also we can kind of make out some details of Cathay and some of the dark lands if you squint at the map image:


Anyway some folks are speculating it's going to be two legendary lords per human faction plus one lord per chaos faction and maybe Be'lakor for the final one. There's also going to be a launch day dlc for Warhammer 3 preorders in the form of a race pack and one more dlc for warhammer 2 before the new one launches.

The lore implications for this game are going to be immense!

Also on a funny side note the guy who plays Superman and the Witcher in the Netflix series is a massive Warhammer nerd and so CA decided to reward him by making him a High Elf Loremaster in the game:

There is a High Elf Loremaster of Hoeth simply named Cavill, who comes with a trait called White Wolf that gives him a bonus when fighting against large enemies (like monsters, perhaps), and even includes the flavour text "Wind's howling". :lol:

I wonder if he might cameo in Torroar's quest!
 
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Garlak said:
Uh. What's the point in giving it away for free?

They can afford it. And we can use the money, too.

We need money too, in fact. Did you somehow forget that we use money to do stuff for Ostland? Good stuff. Like protecting it. Raising more defenses or more army, or expanding it. Why the hell shouldn't we get the rest of the Empire to buy stuff from us? So long as we aren't cheating them somehow?

Just sell it.

We encourage trade across the entire Empire by selling it. This is a way to say "Hey, we've got stuff that everybody wants! Come buy from us!"

And the Goldgiver reputation was not from this sort of charity! In fact, there was a bighuge post from torroar recently that mentioned it. The Goldgiver reputation was, if I remember correctly...? For paying reparations to Talabecland promptly and fully. (Also potentially for paying the Zhufbar thing, though I don't think so.) It was not for giving massively to charity. It was weregild essentially.

And the bighuge post by torroar pointed out that this worked out, partly, as a way of Freddy saying: "Sure, I'll pay the weregild immediately and in full. It's not skin off my nose." Freddy just... out and paid Talabecland and it was a sign of strength, and all. So, no, I don't agree with this idea at all.

Plus, just -- sell the damn things. Hell, increase prices, even!

That's just good business, isn't it?

Now that everyone has noticed the payoff of the seed drills, we go: 'Ah, and now we are raising the prices.'

Every still gets the drill seeds and still can improve their farming output. But now that they are tested and more proven and been bought by other provinces too, we can raise the prices too.
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Did you somehow forget we don't need the money? One time cash infusion from selling the seed drills to each province (8 provinces left). The players got around 20,000-30,000 in their treasury. As long as the net income isn't wrecked at some point and the total cost of plans doesn't grow over time. Money is not a problem.

The southern provinces have money issues. Reikland's counts in the canon have money issues with their main city, a sewer issue. Wissenland has that southern trade network that went down. Averland has their economy tied up in mercs, an Ostland trade deal, and war prep for a great Whaaaggh. All provinces have law issues from the time of three emperors, only Ostland has made steps to correct the problem as far as I know.

What do we gain for charity work? :cry: Freddy aided the dwarfs for free! Freeeeeeeee! Freddy could have died. The whole of Karak Ungor was charity. Is it because these are humans that charity has to be done for a price?

The players get Freddy some goodwill from people among the empire, free publicity, an opportunity to gain some public opinion throughout the empire. Also an opportunity to just try and make the empire a better place because Freddy believes in the better nature of people.

Goldgiver is a title, what value people place upon titles can change through actions. Like giving away a method to make others rich through tech. Ostland is very focused on weapons to the point that the seed drills were not up to the players to seek out as a research project. It was all Anna's creation. An opportunity to gain positive opinion in the empire is unlikely to come around again soon.

tri2 said:
question, has the vote closed and what won?
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It closed, spudman's vote won (the largest "do much in Marienburg").
 
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Marlin said:
What do we gain for charity work? :cry: Freddy aided the dwarfs for free! Freeeeeeeee! Freddy could have died. The whole of Karak Ungor was charity. Is it because these are humans that charity has to be done for a price?
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Wrong. Karak Ungor was not charity. Charity is giving money out of altruism. We did not give money. We went to support the ancestral and religious ally of the Empire... and "to kill as many grobi as possible" (to semi-quote Frederick and Thorgrim both).

We went to support an ancestral ally, and to kill a boatload of enemies. And guess what more money allows us to do? Get more improvements, hire or train or research more army or more weapons, and do good things for our province.
Marlin said:
Goldgiver is a title, what value people place upon titles can change through actions. Like giving away a method to make others rich through tech.
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Also wrong. We did not get that title through charity, we got it through paying effectively weregild.
torroar said:
Clearing The Debt, All At Once: One of the best ways to show someone that you truly are dedicated to making amends, is by taking their big demands, and answering them right off the bat without them even expecting you to manage any of it. But, your treasury has reached the point where you are confident that you could send the full nine thousand that Count Fuerbach still says you 'owe' him. The money would go well to rebuilding his ravaged province, and it would probably be a wildly powerful statement politically, Natasha tells you, and at the least the people of Talabecland would probably be stunned by it. Cost: 9000. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Fulfill Gold Debt to Count Fuerbach and Talabecland. Talabecland able to rebuild province easier, faster. Talabecland able to create an army again rather than relying on heavily armed militia. Empire-wide Public Approval Boost.

- One of the biggest single money transfers in Empire history has just occurred, and it was at your hands and from your treasury. Everyone knows how badly damaged Ostland was by Zacharias, and how badly damaged it still is. By all reports. Count Fuerbach was stunned by the arrival of the chests and chests of gold, and the train of Ostland soldiers that marched their way down to Talabheim garnered many a stares, while you yourself were at the head. Adolf was red faced, and confused, and didn't know quite how to deal with you arriving personally with the funds. The years have gone on and guns and cannons are still being delivered free of charge to your treasuries detriment. But you only ever paid the first thousand of the gold he demanded. So when you dumped the gold onto him, saluted along with all of the Army of Ostland who then bowed, as one, deeply, and turned around and left? Well. Things certainly had a bit of a ripple effect. More than three months later you heard that Talabecland was forming up its armies again, while the Empire itself was wagging tongues about you. Sure, you had all that magic in your family, but damn if you didn't make an impression. Some people began calling you something other than Frederick von Hohenzollern by the time you were back in Ostland. A complete and opposite name from an Emperor long since dead. Reward: Fulfill Gold Debt to Count Fuerbach and Talabecland. Talabecland able to rebuild province easier, faster. Talabecland able to create an army again rather than relying on heavily armed militia. Empire-wide Public Approval Boost. +250 Prestige Points. Title Gained: Goldgiver.
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torroar said:
His lack of acknowledgement of the bites and nibbles that Adolf sent his way was openly condescending, because to a martial society such as the Empire, where psychology and attitudes are quite simply required to be different from IRL, as denoted in the threadmarked post I've linked here: Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism | Page 3402 | Sufficient Velocity which goes into it? Disregarding Adolf so openly was incredibly insulting. Because it meant that Adolf wasn't worth fighting. The act of shoving the payments down his throat so swiftly, so completely, displayed to the Empire that historically poor Ostland was capable of the monies that Talabecland themselves couldn't manage, and furthermore they aided Talabecland militarily and showed the province just how weak its leader was despite his repeated slander and attacks. Swiftly, very swiftly, the antagonism was strangled until it was just about only Adolf and his sons, meaning that in a handful of powerful moves, Talabecland's common folk and nobles turned away from going after Ostland, and instead refocused on internal matters because of a mixture of respect and fear due to what Frederick had accomplished, was willing to do, and was capable of doing if necessary.
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Adolf demanded we pay reparations; we shrugged and said "Fuck it, fine, we'll pay -- immediately." That's different from charity, which is giving stuff away for free out of altruism.

And the reputation gained from that was, indeed, different from that of a totally charitable act.

Also, and while I hadn't thought about it until Qeqre mentioned it...
Qeqre said:
Selling the Seed Drills too cheaply might crash food prices. And IIRC Averland has a fairly large agricultural sector(though a lot of it was cattle).

Making the early Seed Drills expensive gives the markets and farmhands more time to adjust.
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Could we actually crash food prices if this went on?
 
I dont think so,bc nit many provinces will go for them,for the simple reason that they could not hire the peasents that will not have jobs bc of the seed drills.Only provinces with poor soil or a low population will try the drills.And that on a small scale at first,for several years,to see if they truly works.
No province will risk theier entire food supply with a new and untested invention.
Also not every farmer will have acces to the drills or want to use them,so the market will have time to adapt.
And if the province that buyes them wont double the land they plant,the seed drills wont help as much,bc they only shorten the time for planting,and not for all recolts,they dont make croop grow faster or something,you only are able to plant more land with thevsame amount of people and in the same time,or plant the same land faster with fewer people.
 
Marlin said:
The players get Freddy some goodwill from people among the empire, free publicity, an opportunity to gain some public opinion throughout the empire. Also an opportunity to just try and make the empire a better place because Freddy believes in the better nature of people.
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Ya. The neurotic schemers are gonna scheme and see Freddy as idiot or look for ulterior motive, but he has good enough rep otherwise that most will see it as an act of help it is meant to be. Get that reciprocity train going and get the provinces bit more closer and share their stuff so everyone is better off.
 
Wooooo. Now. It's time, to go.... SHOPPPPING.

Make the great swords hold our bags as we sip iced alcohol and punch merchants with bags of gold
 
torroar said:
Hokay, now that I've finally pumped out the 12k for the Brink update, I hope to begin work on the update proper. Thank you for your patience.
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No rush torroar, though I will honestly admit I look forward to Freddy and Nat spending quality time with each other in arguably the greatest human city in the Old World. Certainly helps its a huge melting pot of nearly all cultures and races of the world.

I'm honestly surprised dwarfs and elves can be in the same city for long periods of time without killing each other, even if their districts are on opposite sides of the city from each other.
 
I'm currently trying to get a rough sense of how good our steam/alcohol engines are, and was wondering how long a steam tank could maintain marching speed before needing to be refueled, and how heavy it is. It looks like the front third of an A7V strapped to a boiler with wooden wheeles, so I'm tempted to use an estimate of 10 tons, but would appreciate a second opinion.
 
Garlak said:
Wrong. Karak Ungor was not charity. Charity is giving money out of altruism. We did not give money. We went to support the ancestral and religious ally of the Empire... and "to kill as many grobi as possible" (to semi-quote Frederick and Thorgrim both).

We went to support an ancestral ally, and to kill a boatload of enemies. And guess what more money allows us to do? Get more improvements, hire or train or research more army or more weapons, and do good things for our province.

Also wrong. We did not get that title through charity, we got it through paying effectively weregild.


Adolf demanded we pay reparations; we shrugged and said "Fuck it, fine, we'll pay -- immediately." That's different from charity, which is giving stuff away for free out of altruism.

And the reputation gained from that was, indeed, different from that of a totally charitable act.

Also, and while I hadn't thought about it until Qeqre mentioned it...

Could we actually crash food prices if this went on?
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Why are you using two different definitions of charity? "Charity is giving money out of altruism.". "That's different from charity, which is giving stuff away for free out of altruism." One definition is incompatible with Karak Ungor being an act of charity. The other I'd say is compatible with Karak Ungor being an charity act, we gave Karak Ungor Freddy and Ostland's support for free (which is giving stuff away for free out of possible risk of dying in Karak Ungor).

As for the title. What do you mean the title cannot change in value through actions? Just because we did not gain it through altruism, or charity, doesn't mean it can't be meant for those reasons through Freddy's actions.
torroar said:
"Moro, just…listen, you know I'm good for it. Frederick Goldgiver, remember?"
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