Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Atri said:
@torroar Can we let Natasha choose?

This is to make her happy, after all, and whatever she chooses, Frederick will probably go along with it, right?
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Hmmm. You know? I can put it in as an option.

Clearly I'm too tired from the whole '2 hours of sleep' thing, because I'm getting some reactions I wasn't quite expecting. I thought a neat bond thing that could help with one of the main character's consistently core concerns would be a cool reward thing, regardless of the tier, but some do not...think that it is...that.

Hrm.

My bad, I guess, ya'll. I'll try to do better going forward.
 
about bedrock if Morgor the shadow gave turns Freddy into a chaos spawn you know by being in the same room/area/close environment as him will that with the connection result in Natasha also turning into a chaos spawn ?
 
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I get all the love dovey stuff, and most other times I'd agree, but you guys do realize that an attack from the Beastmen, who do a bunch of ritualistic and shamanic shit, is imminent, and that the one leading that attack is MALAGOR, one of the strongest spellcasters currently living in the Old World, and the undisputed current strongest Bray-Shaman? If there's anyone that could exploit that connection to do some truly heinous shit to Natasha, it's probably him. It was literally explicitly said that powerful and perceptive magical beings could pick up on and exploit that bond, and he checks all three of those boxes about as hard as anyone possibly could. This is the worst possible time to do something like this, at least to Bedrock level. I could tolerate Subsoil, but Bedrock is just...ASKING for him to do something horrible to Natasha in a desperate grasp at revenge against us and our line in the final climactic clash of the campaign.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
So Natasha sucks at making deals, and the Asrai will take any opportunity to give as little as possible regardless of a positive relationship or enormous debt, is what I'm taking from this...it's hard not to be a little bitter and angry at them.
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If you proper acknowledgement and repayment for the good you do, you go to dwarfs.

If you want to be sneered at and dicked around with cryptic bullshittery and rules lawyering, elves, particularly elves that associate with the Fae, are your best bet.

Even then, this doesn't really seem like a bad deal to be honest.

It's a reward for Natasha afterall, and this is something that is immensely important to her.
 
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torroar said:
I thought a neat bond thing that could help with one of the main character's consistently core concerns would be a cool reward thing, regardless of the tier, but some do not...think that it is...that.
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Yes, regardless of the tier it is a cool reward, but our response to it says something about the character of Frederick. If topsoil had been offered and neither of the other two were present, I think we'd all jump on it. The debate is just reconciling what's available, what it grants us, and the implications of the choice.
 
TheDuke said:
I get all the love dovey stuff, and most other times I'd agree, but you guys do realize that an attack from the Beastmen, who do a bunch of ritualistic and shamanic shit, is imminent, and that the one leading that attack is MALAGOR, one of the strongest spellcasters currently living in the Old World, and the undisputed current strongest Bray-Shaman? If there's anyone that could exploit that connection to do some truly heinous shit to Natasha, it's probably him. It was literally explicitly said that powerful and perceptive magical beings could pick up on and exploit that bond, and he checks all three of those boxes about as hard as anyone possibly could. This is the worst possible time to do something like this, at least to Bedrock level. I could tolerate Subsoil, but Bedrock is just...ASKING for him to do something horrible to Natasha in a desperate grasp at revenge against us and our line in the final climactic clash of the campaign.
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Pretty sure this sort of magical abuse still requires some time and prep work.

Like yeah, if we got captured it might be a problem. but otherwise, I don't think so.

Also I don't think beastmen really do captures.

Oh, and that new option looks like a good choice.
 
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ninjafish said:
Also I don't think beastmen really do captures.
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well it really depend on the beastmen sometimes they want some live food stored for later , others they are looking for sacrifices for some ritual and occasionally they might decide to take a captive who will be used as breeding stock for the more randy beastmen then turned into food usually by their own newborn mutant monster children there is also taking prisoners so they can torture them not for information or any sort of gain mind you but just for fun cause they get bored sometimes
 
I dunno guys. Shared emotions during the huge beastman war about to occur seems pretty dangerous. Could this not be put off till later? Why does it need to happen now...
 
TheDuke said:
MALAGOR, one of the strongest spellcasters currently living in the Old World, and the undisputed current strongest Bray-Shaman? If there's anyone that could exploit that connection to do some truly heinous shit to Natasha, it's probably him.
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You're worrying too much dude, everyone knows that stone is an excellent insulator of magic. Clearly, nothing will happen. [Insert tempting fate speech here]
 
I think subsoil as Frederick's preference. I feel he would want no part in allowing Natasha to feel his pain.
Letting her choose isn't really an option because what we're deciding is how much Frederick really wants to commit, and both sides need to truly desire at least the decided level for things to work out (based on my understanding).
 
New option added.

I still...I literally am struggling here to see this as Sunweaver being mean or underhanded. This is literally something she thought would be pleasing to some friends of hers. It's not cryptic at all, and she's being incredibly blatant about the things, all while offering a variety of options for this thing she's offering to do. Sunweaver is paying off what she perceives to be a debt to a friend with a nice - or I guess I thought it was in my sleep deprived state - thing. Like, she's not going to make it something 'easy'. She's the High Spellweaver of Laurelorn, and she's super fresh and ready without being under massive threat of Angry Ariel or corrupted Elder Ancients or the Bone Gate affecting the Weave directly.

Like, sure, let's engage on the OOC knowledge level that I really hoped people wouldn't.

Malagor is extremely powerful and knowledgeable. So is Yhanna Sunweaver. He's a master with Dhar. She's a master with Quaysh. He's been learning and scrapping for his knowledge since his birth, tearing it from lesser bray-shamans and other sorcerers. She's a full graduated student of Argwylon, where common place stuff is damn near miraculous to their fellow elves elsewhere in Athel Loren, and is literally the ruler of one of Laurelorn's cities.

It took her only minutes to adjust this entire ritual she was devising, based on a single question from Natasha, and did so to her own satisfaction to answer back that she could do it no problem. Because she, despite herself, likes them. She dearly appreciates what they did, and wanted to give something back to Natasha that it seemed like the woman might desire. She said 'A debt', she didn't say 'The Debt'. Did she, at any point, declare that she was there in the name of All Laurelorn and the Glade Lord Naraiel Dawnstone? With formal language and everything? No. She basically just said 'Hey friends, let's do some cool magic stuff, I feel like you should be rewarded, cause I feel like your deeds created a debt that should be paid, and here's me doing my part in that repayment'. With the addition of 'oh man, please be cautious and considering about this, I don't want you guys getting hurt OH NO YOUR DAUGHTERS USE MAGIC? PLEASE TELL ME THEY JUST USE ONE WIND BECAUSE I WOULDN'T WANT THEM TO GO INSANE FROM USING MORE and also haha jokes and laughter. Then she says the ritual will take about a year to prepare, not that it HAS to be done immediately or anything like that. Magic requires specifics like that sort of thing, and she would have said 'and then you simply must come, simply must'.

Just...man.

I'm tired.

See ya'll later, I think.
 
Guys have yall learned ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from the white flame incident. The last time we took this kind of choice away from her she wouldn't see us for like 2 years.

I know that ultimately she is a character in a story, but Torrar writes PEOPLE. Natasha is a person with agency. She likely has been giving this a ton of thought. Frederick's Constant martyr complex has been torturing the poor woman for DECADES. This has been repeated MULTIPLE TIMES. Freddy almost dieing is a meme at this point.


Let's please stop treating our wife like an object. She gives so very much for Fredrick. For once let's do what she wants entirely, no haggling, no negotiations and no treating her like her needs are suggestions. We put her needs second to the Empire at every turn.

She is desperately pleading for validation and reassurances like an abuse victim. She is legitimately scared of us.

This relationship is beginning to look toxic and for a hint at the problem here Natasha has given us everything.

Edit: Comparing her to a victim of abuse isn't fair, and was excessive.
 
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TheDuke said:
I get all the love dovey stuff, and most other times I'd agree, but you guys do realize that an attack from the Beastmen, who do a bunch of ritualistic and shamanic shit, is imminent, and that the one leading that attack is MALAGOR, one of the strongest spellcasters currently living in the Old World, and the undisputed current strongest Bray-Shaman? If there's anyone that could exploit that connection to do some truly heinous shit to Natasha, it's probably him. It was literally explicitly said that powerful and perceptive magical beings could pick up on and exploit that bond, and he checks all three of those boxes about as hard as anyone possibly could. This is the worst possible time to do something like this, at least to Bedrock level. I could tolerate Subsoil, but Bedrock is just...ASKING for him to do something horrible to Natasha in a desperate grasp at revenge against us and our line in the final climactic clash of the campaign.
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I see you absolutely get that Torroar explicitly asked us to at least attempt not to metagame with this new morsel of knowledge he gave us. And that he would be adjusting things if we did so (and said so in quite ominous manner)? If your only objection is this, then kindly refrain.

This was honestly pretty cool update. I really like that there is a Natasha option now, thanks for that Torr.
 
mhm, I'm not a fan of pushing the choice back to Natasha. It is a hard choice for us, it would be a hard choice for her and she would need to fight with her own uncertainty about how much is 'reasonable' to ask for. In fact, during the chapter she already offered to take only Topsoil, not because she doesnt want the other options, but as a sort of concession to make Frederick go along with it.

I think it would make her a lot more happy, if we actively decided to go for one of the deeper level (subsoil or bedrock) and show her that Frederick isnt 'just' indulging her choice, but that he too wants to do this.
 
Alright, I changed my mind about staying away. I have poor self control, sue me.

Right...I let something else cloud my vision. But I have calmed down. I owe @torroar an apology. I've used to him having actual depth to things and I still overfocused on the immediate things that sprang to mind. I will try to have more faith in him.

I can move forward with clear mind.

And something that also spurred me back is to remind people: stop making the decision based on the Beastmen interludes. Or on the idea that something that could maybe happen is bound to happen.
 
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...
[] Yes: This is a chance to salve the wounds that Natasha takes every time you go out to battle. To ease her mind is worth much.
...I don't know how to gauge intensity. I really, really, don't. I...
EDIT: Due to Mortarium, I've removed the X. I'm...Not really sure how deep to go but I do think some degree of yes is appropriate.
 
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