Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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I can't wait for the next electors meet, just reread the Laurelorn saga, wonder how Magnus will react after we tell him about how we Killed Orion. Or what we are gonna tell him about Natasha's mutation.
 
okcorral said:
I can't wait for the next electors meet, just reread the Laurelorn saga, wonder how Magnus will react after we tell him about how we Killed Orion. Or what we are gonna tell him about Natasha's mutation.
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Natasha is no more mutated than Freddy is, she was marked by her Goddess. So, hopefully with the way Magnus thinks of such things, he won't be particularly bothered beyond feeling bad for the potential negative impact it might have on Natasha's life.
 
torroar said:
And hey, y'all. I get it, this ain't the main regular turn update. But at least I'm writing something somewhat relevant to the quest? Only a handful left. Hopefully won't take too long.
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While I'm looking forward to the next turn, this is about to get really good as the witch hunters react to the repeated insane bullshit fred gets up to. The reactions will be gold.
 
buli-buli said:
Hmmm. In preparation for Elisia's reaction to Freddy, I'm going to have to do some rereading.
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Early quest Frederick was basically: "Ostland is wrecked, Salkalten is occupied by Norscans, there's a Chaos cult around that just assassinated my entire family all at once, the army's in poor shape, beastmen are raiding freely throughout the province, I'm bitter as fuck about being exiled to a village in the ass-end of Ostland, the Forest of Shadows might rise up and kill us all at any moment, I have a Piety stat of 1, and I have no idea what I'm doing. But this is a really nice sword, and it says I'm in charge now. Whelp, guess I'll just have to clean this mess up myself."

The fact that Frederick turned out as well as he has is, from an outside perspective, absolutely stunning. Stephan had at least been a Captain in Nordland's military, and thus had some leadership and quasi-diplomatic experience. Frederick was a good fighter, but his Piety and Diplomacy stats were godawful (his Intrigue was okay, but not good)--but he had a high intelligence stat, which is inadvertently obfuscated by his brazen and almost reckless demeanor (plus his massive reputation as being a rage-fueled murderblender in battle who aims himself at strong enemies and somehow comes out alive--albeit barely).

A hidden benefit of Frederick having no formal education about politics, diplomacy, Empire history, or courtly intrigue, is that he's shamelessly norm-breaking in a very pragmatic way. Despite repeatedly doing things that would raise eyebrows and hackles, he would get away with it because he was very clear and open about his broad, pragmatic (and sometimes idealistic) goals. Ostland would do too well economically, militarily, and culturally for any serious opposition to form from within the province, and the fact that nothing was blowing up or going rotten in Ostland (and it would help out other provinces when they were in need) meant that he was treated as a real Elector Count.

The Witch Hunters were generally quietly hostile towards Freddy after they got over the initial period of contrition for their utter failure to even discover the cult or the plot against the entire Hohenzollern family, but by that point Frederick had also proven himself to deserve the benefit of the doubt (saving a province and permakilling a Daemon Prince of Nurgle will do that). And while he'd openly embrace magic, he'd also fight against Chaos by putting himself at the head of the charge and not stopping until every last foe was dead. Killing a Bloodthirster and subjecting himself to a full test by the Sigmarite temple in Nuln (complete with not burning in a pyre while covered in oil, just like with Magnus) cemented that in the eyes of any Witch Hunter who could possibly be swayed.

That's probably what made him so unusual as an Elector Count, in the eyes of the Witch Hunters: he might seem sketchy in some ways until he goes 110% "Fuck Chaos" through deed and word...and then does it again and again.
 
I'd just like to say- it makes sense that Magnus the Pious isn't pumped full of god's blessings.

He may be the Order equivalent of an Everchosen, but there's one fundamental difference: CHOICE.

Chaos doesn't allow one's servants to choose. They take one and mold one into a champion of their cause. A person is like a material to mold into a blade of their liking.
Order requires a person to believe on their own, to serve of their own free will. This makes Magnus the Pious' actions meaningful- he wasn't forced into anything.

So to fill someone with permanent blessings defeats the entire point:
It warps a person to a closer image of a god's ideals. To take away one's personality is to take away the very fundament of choice.
It cannot be taken away. A position like this, it's not something you agree to once and are bound to it. Every moment, you choose to continue. Any moment, you can walk away, if only theoretically.
It overshadows the real reason he's here, at the helm of the Empire. As torroar said it, he's just an ordinary dude. It's his will that matters, his piety. Not being stacked up with Godly DLC like Everchosen is.

Magnus the Pious isn't the Everchosen, he's the Everchoosing.
 
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Aranfan said:
The Lord Protector wanted Freddy dead. He was a faithless drunkard with no skill at ruling and who immediately consorted with witches.
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To be fair, trial by combat proved popular.

...amongst the Ulricans.
NCRTrooper said:
The Old World is also the only part of the world that matters as far as Frederick and other Old Worlders are concerned. The people of the Far East also no doubt feel the same way about their part of the world too.
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Credit where credit is due. Cathay did try to colonize the Southlands once.
Half of the expedition was killed by a typhoon. The rest trekked through the jungle and tried to take some plaques from this one ruin while on the run from 'lizard-daemons.' The survivors of that group were eventually captured and sacrificed except for this one dude who had a dragon tattoo that kinda resembled Sotek.
 
PurposefulZephyr said:
I'd just like to say- it makes sense that Magnus the Pious isn't pumped full of god's blessings.

He may be the Order equivalent of an Everchosen, but there's one fundamental difference: CHOICE.

Chaos doesn't allow one's servants to choose. They take one and mold one into a champion of their cause. A person is like a material to mold into a blade of their liking.
Order requires a person to believe on their own, to serve of their own free will. This makes Magnus the Pious' actions meaningful- he wasn't forced into anything.

So to fill someone with permanent blessings defeats the entire point:
It warps a person to a closer image of a god's ideals. To take away one's personality is to take away the very fundament of choice.
It cannot be taken away. A position like this, it's not something you agree to once and are bound to it. Every moment, you choose to continue. Any moment, you can walk away, if only theoretically.
It overshadows the real reason he's here, at the helm of the Empire. As torroar said it, he's just an ordinary dude. It's his will that matters, his piety. Not being stacked up with Godly DLC like Everchosen is.

Magnus the Pious isn't the Everchosen, he's the Everchoosing.
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That was something I was thinking about earlier- the gods didn't choose Magnus, Magnus chose himself. As far as I'm aware, Sigmar didn't appear in his dreams and tell him that he needed to unite the Empire, Magnus looked around at everything going on and thought "Shit, somebody has to unite the Empire if we want to survive... I guess that somebody is going to be me".
Noroboro said:
Although, I can't help but be curious as to what happened to the three previous Emperors before Magnus united all the provinces.
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Well, as far as I'm aware, one is typically the Wolf Emperor, Elector Count of Middenland, so that would have been Karl Todbringer, who stepped down for Gunthar to take the seat. And another is the Ottillian Emperor, Elector Count of Talabecland, so that'd be Adolf Fuerbach, who Freddy has a bunch of history with.

I think the 3rd tends to change around- might have been Stirland, might have been Reikland.

Either way, they all just went back to being Elector Counts instead of claiming to be Emperors.
 
I am pretty sure one of them got killed by Manfred Von Carstien
torroar said:
"I have heard it before, abomination. From the dozens of your kind that the faithful pushed from the Empire and into these lands of mine."

"Your lands?!"

Count Stauffenberg gave a small smile.

"I could not be Emperor, but Stirland will have Sylvania as it always was meant to."

"You dare try to claim Mannfred von Carstein's lands for your own?!" roared the monster, bringing up all other combatants up short.

"W-what?!" the smile flickered out from the Count's face.
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So uh @torroar is Marlisa Liesedotte going to turn out to be Heart-Taker wearing the face of a dead girl she killed back when the girl had ran away from home?

Edit: Or is there going to be another Marlisa Liesedotte showing up at the end of this Witch Hunter story to cast accusations/aspersions?
 
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My guess right now is that the Ostland branch of the Cult of Manann had been infiltrated by Heart Taker

So, while the Order of the Shore was being purged our Witch Hunter Captain discovered this and purged Heart Takers influence as well... And that would make 50% of the Cult of Manann dying much more reasonable.

I mean I still want to investigate simply because its simply good policy but the focus on Heart Taker makes me think her role just finished or she is about to become very important.


I mean looking at the forest of shadows it is very easy for chaos worshippers and necromancers to hide.

Separate thing but I wonder if Dieter Helsnicht is currently in the Nordland/Middenland section of the forest of shadows, or if he wondered off somewhere.

On the one hand he has used the area to hide in for a while, on the other high elves (so might be an area he wants to avoid) and the vampire war (which didn't seem to be anywhere near his section, I don't remember if he had been mentioned in the vampire war… partly because I only found out about him via wiki walks, maybe the Doom Lord will decide to pull a Zacharias… although with more intrigue ahead of time). Also he might want to avoid the Empire going on another massive anti-vampire/undead purge... although waiting until after the empire is attacked by mass beastmen and orcs would give him a better chance
 
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I don't think something like that would be able to hide from the high concentration of wizards and other people with witch sight, but there are means to walk around that so i guess its possible.
 
PurposefulZephyr said:
Chaos doesn't allow one's servants to choose. They take one and mold one into a champion of their cause. A person is like a material to mold into a blade of their liking.
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I'm no Warhammer specialist, I though that, to receive the gifts of the Chaos gods (and not just random mutation), the recipient had to be willing or at least interested in what those gifts would give to them. But once Chaos had taken hold, they would their start losing will and becoming slaves to darkness
 
baud said:
I'm no Warhammer specialist, I though that, to receive the gifts of the Chaos gods (and not just random mutation), the recipient had to be willing or at least interested in what those gifts would give to them. But once Chaos had taken hold, they would their start losing will and becoming slaves to darkness
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Willingness makes it easier and gives you any chance to pick which of the Four you accept "blessings" and mutations from, but willingness isn't necessary for corruption and the "gifts" to take hold.

You don't get a Mark of Chaos without being willing, but being given metal for flesh and bone, having your body become twice as strong and thrice as tough as unnatural muscles and bone grow and extend through your body? Heck per one of the 40k tabletops you could be given the body of a Daemon with all the supernatural might, resilience, and immortality included if you happened to be lucky regardless of willingness. Other times a willing champion might just have all their bones removed, with no benefits provided and now they need to be poured into their armor to retain a shape at all.

Chaos relying on choice is an illusion the Four enjoy because it means that those afflicted must think they have already chosen subconsciously, just as it forces the witch-hunters to treat all mutation as signs of the same corruption since there is no actual way to tell if someone "cursed"/"blessed" by Chaos wanted it either way. Choosing makes it more likely for you to get a beneficial blessing, but nothing is set in stone.

EDIT: To build on this a bit more, the Four prey on all desires. Faithful prayers to become strong enough to become one of the Knights of Ulric is an open invitation as far as Khorne is concerned, just as hoping that ones family is spared the effects of a plague is a call for aid from Nurgle, and wanting to master any craft or skill is just begging for Slaanesh to intercede.

Everyone wants something be it physical strength, to survive the year, or to become better at something you love to do. All these things could make one "willing" in the eyes of the Four, and thus why the basic watchwords of Malus is that one must pull their strength from Faith, as Faith is the one thing the Four cannot so easily twist to their own ends until you give them another opening to pull a "man in the middle" switcheroo.
 
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baud said:
I'm no Warhammer specialist, I though that, to receive the gifts of the Chaos gods (and not just random mutation), the recipient had to be willing or at least interested in what those gifts would give to them. But once Chaos had taken hold, they would their start losing will and becoming slaves to darkness
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Well, okay, I admit- I don't know how does the whole free will thing goes for a prospective Everchosen.
Probably- they started willing, sure. Backstories say that the most often come as very successful champions in Northern Wastes. That implies human.
With "gifts" of Chaos filling his mind/soul/body, that won't matter for long, though.
Also, you've got Tzeentch. He's got good handle of fate-weaving, especially when there are multiple conflicting futures. It'll be pretty in character for him to keep tabs and nudge prospective chosen in "right" direction.

Which still maintains the difference- Magnus is "just" a man, capable of going wherever he damn pleases, and Everchosen became essentially a really good looking spawn of chaos.
 
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thanks for the insight. I just though that Chaos would have been more insidious if it was something that could be willingly chosen instead of mostly foisted upon the recipient.
I don't disagree with the idea that Magnus totally chose, though
 
baud said:
thanks for the insight. I just though that Chaos would have been more insidious if it was something that could be willingly chosen instead of mostly foisted upon the recipient.
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It is both.
Willingly chosen or just the unlucky ones. Both are recipients of Chaos. Part of the insidiousness is that it can be hard to differentiate between the victim and the cultist, with the former having a high chance of ending up as the latter and the latter tending to create more of the former.

But the gifts aren't guaranteed to be benign, recipients don't tend to remain sane and actual Chaos Warriors start to forget details of who they were somewhere on the path to damnation.
 
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So anyone else get the feeling this Heart bitch is the cause behind the recent Holder of the Shore Uprising? I find it very suspect that we'd get all these temp thread marks for no reason.
 
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