Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Urgdug may be no Settra, but I challenge you to find a single ogre in the world at this time or later to have as many Big Names and accomplishments under his considerable belt as our brogre!

Maybe his kids will work hard to leave up to their dear old dad since as noble ogres they have lots to do to prove their worth. At least they will have over a century to work at it if all goes well.

Makes me wonder... while I know Freddy and friends love Urgdug, and Ostland ogres basically worship everything he does, how does the nobility in general view Urgdug's great rise to their ranks (albeit the lowest one of the land knight) and ogre population in general? While I'm sure most Ostlanders at this point have come to see local ogre population as equals I can't imagine the growing pains it must have took to get to this point and the bits still ongoing.

At least I'm sure leading actual pogroms of ogres weren't nearly as successful as ones against halflings and dwarfs since the ogres could more easily defend themselves for obvious reasons. :p
 
Massgamer said:
Urgdug may be no Settra, but I challenge you to find a single ogre in the world at this time or later to have as many Big Names and accomplishments under his considerable belt as our brogre!

Maybe his kids will work hard to leave up to their dear old dad since as noble ogres they have lots to do to prove their worth. At least they will have over a century to work at it if all goes well.

Makes me wonder... while I know Freddy and friends love Urgdug, and Ostland ogres basically worship everything he does, how does the nobility in general view Urgdug's great rise to their ranks (albeit the lowest one of the land knight) and ogre population in general? While I'm sure most Ostlanders at this point have come to see local ogre population as equals I can't imagine the growing pains it must have took to get to this point and the bits still ongoing.

At least I'm sure leading actual pogroms of ogres weren't nearly as successful as ones against halflings and dwarfs since the ogres could more easily defend themselves for obvious reasons. :p
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Reminder: Frederick is not the centre of the universe.

The ogre Overtyrant Skulltaker killed should have more big names then Urgdug. Names that cannot be named by dint of being dead. Overtyrants are like the greatest of great kings in Ogre culture. Kinda like that Greasus Goldtooth guy in canon Warhammer.

torroar said:
"That…was a High King of Kraka Drak, a scion of the Defender, an Overtyrant, and two Princes of Ind,"
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Marlin said:
Reminder: Frederick is not the centre of the universe.

The ogre Overtyrant Skulltaker killed should have more big names then Urgdug. Names that cannot be named by dint of being dead. Overtyrants are like the greatest of great kings in Ogre culture. Kinda like that Greasus Goldtooth guy in canon Warhammer.
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But he's working on it!
 
torroar said:
The Ironhorn Banner
[Artifact Banner]​

The Saga of Karak Ungor's Reclamation is one told across the Karaz Ankor, a tale that would have seen longbeards and beardlings alike scoff in disbelief were its participants not those of impeccable honor and memory. The High King, Thorgrim Grudgebearer. The Eldest Living Runelord, Kragg the Grim. Lords and Thanes of a multitude of Clans, support in the dual forms of materials and personnel from the Guilds. Yet it is not solely by they that the victory was achieved, no, rather a significant portion of the victory, the striking of so many Grudges, of such Vengeance claimed, can be laid at the feet of allies to the dawi. Ortrud Hertwig, who had fought alongside the dawi for years in campaigns leading up to the actual Delving Hold itself, and the Throng of Ostermark, a province of the Empire. The knight Roland of Bretonnia. Even the 'Imperial Wizards', their mastery of untrustworthy magic nevertheless a boon acknowledged by the lives and bodies of so many dawi saved. Yet it is not to these that this banner was dedicated to, for she received her own gifts and pledges of friendship from the dwarfs. Instead, this banner dedicates itself to another, a man and a dwarf, in what is a tale told almost nightly in Karak Kadrin, the tale of the Last Slayer King and the human Frederick von Hohenzollern, known by many titles but one of the most prominent amongst them being the Steel Bull. A friendship built between sons and fathers, a fateful duel, and grudges won and death oaths fulfilled, one engraved upon the banner itself.

No feeble cloth could suffice, no, to even suggest such would be an insult. One that Runelord Drokgil of Karak Kadrin would not countenance. Instead, the banner itself is of a solid gromril rectangular slate, sheathed in the hide of one of a slain magma dragon of Karak Ungor, the hide pinned onto the slate with gromril nails. Shards of the slain dragon's claws clutch the sides, shaped and formed under the hands of a master of runecraft. In Khazalid, the Tale of the Ironfist and the Steel Bull, which recounts all the meetings between Ungrim Ironfist and Frederick von Hohenzollern throughout the Karak Ungor campaign from first to fateful last, is permanently engraved in verse. Three powerful runes have been engraved in the banner, struck upon Karak Kadrin's own Anvil of Doom at a point when the Winds blew most strongly about the peaks. First, is the Master Rune of Grimnir, as befitting a creation of the Hold which honors Him most. Second, burning brightly at all times, is the Rune of Courage and the Rune of Sanctuary, that the bearer of the banner never lose the first and be the second for all of his battle-kin. The legendary doom of the Last Slayer King will never be forgotten, nor will the battle fury of Frederick von Hohenzollern as both fought to the death and beyond against the daemon Skulltaker, and were victorious! It was worked on for three years, since the end of the Reclamation Karak Ungor in the year 2327 by umgi reckoning, and gifted in the Empire's year of 2330 to the Hohenzollern Dynasty as a whole as a sign of friendship during the marriage of Magnus von Hohenzollern, son of Frederick von Hohenzollern, to one Sabine Nassau.

Of course, because Runelord Drokgil insisted on a solid gromril plate, with magma dragon hide, upon a solid beam of thick puresteel, its sheer weight is considerable. Three umgi soldiers would struggle to bear it properly, four or five with somewhat more ease. Or, alternatively, a single sufficiently impressive ogre.

Effects:
1. +5 Ward Save Against Ranged Attacks
2. Extremely High Morale To Bearing Unit And Others Around Bearing Unit, Bonus To Anti-Break/Panic/Fear Rolls
3. Anti-Magic, Bonus To Anti-Magic Rolls/Magic Resistance Rolls

Currently Held Aloft Into Battle By: Sir Captain Headmaster Urgdug Greatbellow Thunderbringer Daemonthumper Dragonrippa Giantbreaker Deathcheater Castleshatterer Maelstrombringer Beastcrush Overfather Monstertosser Ratsmasher Thronewielder Wormbreak Heartswallower Dragoneater Dal Bolg Tyrant Breaker Maw-Stomp Dawongr Treebreaker the Tremendously Sizable
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Wew, Urgdug's full name's really getting quite lengthy. Can barely get the thing out in one breath.
 
Marlin said:
Reminder: Frederick is not the centre of the universe.

The ogre Overtyrant Skulltaker killed should have more big names then Urgdug. Names that cannot be named by dint of being dead. Overtyrants are like the greatest of great kings in Ogre culture. Kinda like that Greasus Goldtooth guy in canon Warhammer.
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1. This is true, yes.
2. Eh....not necessarily. Greaseus Goldtooth was the reigning Overtyrant in 2522 IC and his canonical formal title list was just 'Tradelord Greasus Tribestealer Drakecrush Gatecrasher Hoardmaster Goldtooth the Shockingly Obese'. He doesn't even have any of the specific Big Names from the Army List, at least none of the ones that communicate one of the bonuses that they confer as per the Army Book. Canonically? The first Overtyrant ever, who took control in -950 IC, was just named Thug the Fist. Overtyrants are considerably powerful, of course, for being able to bind together multiple ogre tribes and rule enormous swathes of territory as a result, and are often very much the best fighter in the entire mountain range until they abruptly aren't whether due to avalanche, old age catching up just enough, or a sudden daemonic manifestation, at which point the communal territory shatters and the ogres go their own ways again. Part of Urgdug's name length is definitely OOC fun, but IC unlike an ogre just shouting very loudly, the ogres and humans and dwarfs and halflings discuss them, so it takes on a bit of a life of its own as the ogres are proud of having one of their own talked about in warm terms rather than just pants-foiling fear.
 
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Orkus Majorkus said:
I never fail to take the chance even if it's only tangentiality related to the subject at hand to mention my favorite Settra title: Golden Bone Lord.
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Oh, that explains it! Clearly the reason Settra wasn't going out stomping the rest of the world was he was off posing for a series of Nipponese artworks:



Bass11 said:
Hmm, honestly I would think Thud the Fist would be a better name than Thug the fist.
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To be fair at least he got a mountain named after him:

Mount Thug
 
torroar said:
so it takes on a bit of a life of its own as the ogres are proud of having one of their own talked about in warm terms rather than just pants-foiling fear.
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I wonder if he will get 'instructor/teacher' or others like this. Or some 'defender of young (bulls)' from someone and some ogre heard that and liked enough to spread the news^^.
Edit: or somehow get a title to try to inform to the foreigner ogres how much quality food he has. But I assume that any ogree that see one of their leaders already know that so they add that other than saying their size.
 
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065tdsa said:
Except any arrangement we make that has any real worth and a chance to last in the long term is going to come out in the air eventually. And it doesn't matter when it happens, because whoever dislikes us at that time is going to use it to attack us regardless. They are the ones causing the friction, not us.

So we might as well have it come out when we're strong. If we delay we may find ourselves in a situation where we want to come out with it but would be disadvantaged in doing so, because the political landscape changed under our feet while we delayed.
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Except that is not the full total sum of what we are going to do. The end goal isn't diplomacy between the Trident and Laurelorn, but instead diplomacy between the Empire and Laurelorn.
 
Dmol8 said:
Except that is not the full total sum of what we are going to do. The end goal isn't diplomacy between the Trident and Laurelorn, but instead diplomacy between the Empire and Laurelorn.
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That's not Naraiel's goal - she doesn't trust anyone but us and Stephan. While we may aspire to more than that, we're stuck to her schedule in that regard and, absent any catastrophe that forces her to reevaluate, her schedule will most likely outlive us because she's still a Wood Elf and there are tectonic plates that move faster than they change their minds.

She's right to be skeptical about the wider Empire anyhow. Making a deal with Emperor Magnus when he'll die in a few decades and his successor and those that follow won't even necessarily be people he would have approved of (because the Elector Counts tend to deliberately pick incompetents to the post so as to have to deal with less Imperial attention) is a waste of time to a Wood Elf.
 
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065tdsa said:
That's not Naraiel's goal - she doesn't trust anyone but us and Stephan. While we may aspire to more than that, we're stuck to her schedule in that regard and, absent any catastrophe that forces her to reevaluate, her schedule will most likely outlive us because she's still a Wood Elf and there are tectonic plates that move faster than they change their minds.

She's right to be skeptical about the wider Empire anyhow. Making a deal with Emperor Magnus when he'll die in a few decades and his successor and those that follow won't even necessarily be people he would have approved of (because the Elector Counts tend to deliberately pick incompetents to the post so as to have to deal with less Imperial attention) is a waste of time to a Wood Elf.
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You are assuming that we'll allow such a thing to come to pass. It still might, but it's less likely then it was in the original timeline.
 
Dmol8 said:
You are assuming that we'll allow such a thing to come to pass. It still might, but it's less likely then it was in the original timeline.
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I'm assuming at some point we'll end up with a slew of bad candidates, good candidates without enough votes to be elected, and/or candidates outright hostile to our interests that we must stop from being elected.
 
065tdsa said:
I'm assuming at some point we'll end up with a slew of bad candidates, good candidates without enough votes to be elected, and/or candidates outright hostile to our interests that we must stop from being elected.
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that's when realpolitik comes into play as all we have to do is select the least bad option or the one most likely to cut a deal and then offer the votes and support of the trident in-exchange of whatever concession we want , that is basically how electing the emperor works anyway, the would be emperor goes around cutting deals , pact ,paying bribes ,promising concessions , making agreements, calling in and exchanging favors to get votes . as a rule would be emperors can't stop at just enough votes to win as that risks there being enough disgruntled provinces who did not vote for him that another civil wars becomes possible , would be emperors have to get the majority at least enough(about 3/4) of the provinces united in there votes behind them both to ensure a stable rule and avoid another war of the three emperors

edit : also the vast majority of would be emperors come from the ranks of the elector counts themselves which means they will as a rule avoid interfering in another provinces affairs lest they set precedent that could be used by future emperors on there province and decedents
 
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mmgaballah said:
that's when realpolitik comes into play as all we have to do is select the least bad option or the one most likely to cut a deal and then offer the votes and support of the trident in-exchange of whatever concession we want , that is basically how electing the emperor works anyway, the would be emperor goes around cutting deals , pact ,paying bribes ,promising concessions , making agreements, calling in and exchanging favors to get votes . as a rule would be emperors can't stop at just enough votes to win as that risks there being enough disgruntled provinces who did not vote for him that another civil wars becomes possible , would be emperors have to get the majority at least enough(about 3/4) of the provinces united in there votes behind them both to ensure a stable rule and avoid another war of the three emperors
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Sure, but having to bribe bad faith Emperors into continuing a mutually beneficial alliance with Laurelorn is obviously not a good state of affairs, and I doubt Laurelorn would considering it worthwhile to have to bribe someone every 30 years in return for something that is blatantly mutually beneficial, not even putting into consideration the enormous pride of elves.

I can absolutely see why Nariel would prefer to keep this between Stephan, Freddy and their lineages rather than trying to make one with the Empire as a whole.
 
Raichu1972 said:
I can absolutely see why Nariel would prefer to keep this between Stephan, Freddy and their lineages rather than trying to make one with the Empire as a whole.
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I mean, yeah. Naraiel was born in -1,024 IC, a century after Laurelorn was introduced to the Pact by Ariel. She's intensely aware of how fractious the Empire historically is, both before and after its founding. She has watched its squabbles, its civil wars over material goods, insults, and various religions, for a long, long time, and has keenly felt the unpleasant results of when its rulers and people decide to take what firmly is not theirs so many times over. She is, explicitly, untrusting of the position of Emperor and any of those who hold it to somehow enforce the rest of the Empire to listen to them in the long-term, because she knows that the Empire doesn't work like that for the vast majority of the time, because each province is essentially its own High Realm equivalent. She'll make a deal with who she knows, and has known, for some three decades now because she's aware enough that that is a not inconsiderable span of human lifetime spent on the effort, and even then she's forcing herself to examine her own biases and is fighting against them.
 
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That, and even the more skeptical of her subjects and peers are probably in favor of a non aggression pact with Freddy, specifically. "Just wait for the scary human couple to die of old age" is probably a non-trivial opinion among the wood elves right now.
 
MonkeyTypewriter said:
That, and even the more skeptical of her subjects and peers are probably in favor of a non aggression pact with Freddy, specifically. "Just wait for the scary human couple to die of old age" is probably a non-trivial opinion among the wood elves right now.
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I image they'll be quite surprised when demon-Freddy finally murderdeathkills his way out of the warp in 400 years to rampage across the materium :V
 
065tdsa said:
Except any arrangement we make that has any real worth and a chance to last in the long term is going to come out in the air eventually. And it doesn't matter when it happens, because whoever dislikes us at that time is going to use it to attack us regardless. They are the ones causing the friction, not us.

So we might as well have it come out when we're strong. If we delay we may find ourselves in a situation where we want to come out with it but would be disadvantaged in doing so, because the political landscape changed under our feet while we delayed.
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065tdsa said:
That's not Naraiel's goal - she doesn't trust anyone but us and Stephan. While we may aspire to more than that, we're stuck to her schedule in that regard and, absent any catastrophe that forces her to reevaluate, her schedule will most likely outlive us because she's still a Wood Elf and there are tectonic plates that move faster than they change their minds.

She's right to be skeptical about the wider Empire anyhow. Making a deal with Emperor Magnus when he'll die in a few decades and his successor and those that follow won't even necessarily be people he would have approved of (because the Elector Counts tend to deliberately pick incompetents to the post so as to have to deal with less Imperial attention) is a waste of time to a Wood Elf.
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065tdsa said:
I'm assuming at some point we'll end up with a slew of bad candidates, good candidates without enough votes to be elected, and/or candidates outright hostile to our interests that we must stop from being elected.
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Well at least you're honest with about your argument being about fear.

Fear of the enemy who you have not even argued an appeasement is possible for (even though we have done it multiple times and have even resisted bad faith actions on top of that).

Fear of the world turning worse (even though it has tried to do so multiple times and will try again and we have so far resisted such efforts with planning and luck).

Fear of an ally's unyielding nature even though Naraiel herself has spoken about how she is willing to yield to an argument if it holds true even for a human generation in the last two update. Even though she has intoxicated herself to be able to bend enough to try something that has been tried before because the people are new.

Fear of people turning worse next generation even though we have worked a lot of effort into making sure people are better than in the original timeline. Also the belief of inter-Empire diplomacy being a waste of time to a Wood Elf even though we have been told in the last two updates that Naraiel and her father saw it as an investment in time to save themselves the time and effort of two human generation in exchange for months of diplomatic meetings.

Fear of a bad political situation forcing realpolitik on us and as such curtailing our own ability to affect good actions. Even though historically at the peak of realpolitik stupidity people still got good things done.

Then on top of that you only use generalities like exceptional people in this setting (or for that matter in the real world) can't exists. Even though history remembers so many exceptional people that went beyond the norm to change the world for better/worse. Like doing enough good doesn't inspire at least some other people to try and do good. And some of them even succeed.

Then there is the implied logic in your argument of us doing nothing to mitigate the bad events and not being responsible stewards of our power even though players have been trying to mitigate bad events and responsibly steward our power since the start of the quest. We even succeed most of the time and go after the failures until they are at the very least mitigated.

torroar said:
I mean, yeah. Naraiel was born in -1,024 IC, a century after Laurelorn was introduced to the Pact by Ariel. She's intensely aware of how fractious the Empire historically is, both before and after its founding. She has watched its squabbles, its civil wars over material goods, insults, and various religions, for a long, long time, and has keenly felt the unpleasant results of when its rulers and people decide to take what firmly is not theirs so many times over. She is, explicitly, untrusting of the position of Emperor and any of those who hold it to somehow enforce the rest of the Empire to listen to them in the long-term, because she knows that the Empire doesn't work like that for the vast majority of the time, because each province is essentially its own High Realm equivalent. She'll make a deal with who she knows, and has known, for some three decades now because she's aware enough that that is a not inconsiderable span of human lifetime spent on the effort, and even then she's forcing herself to examine her own biases and is fighting against them.
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Even after all the shit Naraiel has gotten from the Empire she is still willing to try Diplomacy even though her bar to get to that point qualifies as a skyscraper. This is an evolving situation and just going fuck it expect the worst so do the worst to our enemies before they do it to us is a bad idea.

Now does your argument(s) have something more to them than the logic of fearmongering?
 
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