Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Karmic Acumen said:
Not if we all stop talking about it.

Honestly, for me the whole "Ostland was supposed to be Middenland's bitch" thing came out of nowhere.
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Ah, that's just the way canon had it. Yet, at the same time, the Era of Three Emperors led to quite a break down in the status quo, which itself would not be fully restored until towards the end of Magnus' reign. In canon during Karl Franz's time, they seemed split between Middenland and Reikland due to the former usual northern provincial dominance of Middenland and the level of support/control the Cult of Sigmar was exerting on the nobility with donations and soft power. The upswing of Ostland in establishing itself in the general 'settling' which came after the end of the Era of Three Emperors put it in a position where Middenland's traditional position of power was unused by Todbringer, something that Todbringer's daughter [the current Gräfin now] disagreed with viciously. Gunthar came in expecting similar due to his wife's words and Dolph and other agents working to create a certain sort of image of Frederick and the north, but has, of course, been thoroughly disabused of that notion. Not that he's happy about it, but who is when they've been fooled by a very successful misinformation campaign?

EVA-Saiyajin said:
Did we face any maluses due to Nurglish unspeakable foulness back against Gruber?
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You would have if you took longer to get to Gruber, to the general troops I mean due to the enemy becoming more daemon-heavy than cultist and Chaos Warrior. Frederick, however, had that Shallyan amulet which helped protect him a good bit before it got destroyed there in the end. If Gruber had not been perma-killed with Malevolentia lingering daemonic influence could have led to a long bout of suffering various sicknesses and diseases for both Frederick and Ortrud.
 
Andres110 said:
What image did Gunther have of Frederick and the north?
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As I recall Gunther THOUGHT Frederick was trying to undermine him/attack his province with sneaky set-up for invasion because VAMPIRIC CORRUPTION!
Buuut then they met, they very angrily shouted out that the other was being an idiot and that yes they were on the same side. Admittedly this DID require a Magnus! Intervention to prevent so the vamps nearly got their job done.
 
torroar said:
Ah, that's just the way canon had it. Yet, at the same time, the Era of Three Emperors led to quite a break down in the status quo, which itself would not be fully restored until towards the end of Magnus' reign. In canon during Karl Franz's time, they seemed split between Middenland and Reikland due to the former usual northern provincial dominance of Middenland and the level of support/control the Cult of Sigmar was exerting on the nobility with donations and soft power. The upswing of Ostland in establishing itself in the general 'settling' which came after the end of the Era of Three Emperors put it in a position where Middenland's traditional position of power was unused by Todbringer, something that Todbringer's daughter [the current Gräfin now] disagreed with viciously. Gunthar came in expecting similar due to his wife's words and Dolph and other agents working to create a certain sort of image of Frederick and the north, but has, of course, been thoroughly disabused of that notion. Not that he's happy about it, but who is when they've been fooled by a very successful misinformation campaign?



You would have if you took longer to get to Gruber, to the general troops I mean due to the enemy becoming more daemon-heavy than cultist and Chaos Warrior. Frederick, however, had that Shallyan amulet which helped protect him a good bit before it got destroyed there in the end. If Gruber had not been perma-killed with Malevolentia lingering daemonic influence could have led to a long bout of suffering various sicknesses and diseases for both Frederick and Ortrud.
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In general, what is Ostland's power relative to the other provinces in the Empire? It's probably not equal to the likes of Middenland and Reikland yet, but I don't think it's very far behind them either.
 
Aleadrex said:
I don't think reducing this to a 'my pain is greater than yours' contest is any good here. Strong emotions are irrational to begin with, and Adolf is an old fucking man with preconceived notions and beliefs.

Let's revisit the Vampire War, where we, Frederick lost Oskar. Frederick became an outright abusive drunk that we suffered Diplomacy penalties, where we were tempted by Solkan, where we pushed the Army of Ostland through meatgrinders, and where we had to roll (and fail) not to charge Zacharias' entire force singlehandedly, where we only survived due to high fucking rolls. Even now, we get mentions of 'the Red Haze' whenever we become berserk, and even now we receive flashbacks of Oskar's death at the hands of Zacharias. Despite our control, Frederick was very irrational then.

Now, let's look at the incident from Adolf's point of view. Johanna, IIRC was the man's Heiress. This is despite the fact that the guy had sons, so Johanna must have been his favorite. Your neighbor Ostland is attacked, so Adolf sends an army, along with his daughter, a seasoned warrior. Out of thousands sent, literally only, what, twenty come back. Literally 99% of your army took casualties, specifically dead, and there are rumors that Frederick von Hohenzollern, an abusive, faithless drunk, ordered them into where the fighting was worst, because no other Province took such heavy losses. Then in public, he hears his daughter is dead, killed in action. In private, he hears that Frederick von Hohenzollern allowed a fucking vampire to turn her, (consent be damned, she was under duress).

Adolf doesn't know about Genevieve. He doesn't know or doesn't care that Sigmar apparently likes her, he's not a Sigmarite. To him, we may as well have turned Johanna to Chaos. Also take note that we were supposed to be fighting Vampires, and, we, an impious drunk, suddenly cares about the light of Sigmar manifesting for a vampire? Finally, to add insult to injury, just as his opinion of us was growing again, we circumvent him and go court his sons, acting as if he were already dead, and suddenly we look like a manipulative rival again.

I'm not defending Adolf's actions, and I think he was an asshole and we should totally accept his sons' challenges and duel them to the fucking ground. That said, I do think his hatred of us, while not justified, is understandable. Adolf is an old man, and we're really the only target and outlet he can express his bitterness, hatred and grief to, but it's irrational and it's getting in the way of the Empire's unity. Emperor Magnus thinks so as well.
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As a nitpick: I dont think we where an abusive drunk. He was for sure an abrasive, angry, sullen and withdrawn drunk, but he was not abusive from what I remember.
 
I don't think we really compare yet to the breadbasket provinces of the empire wealth wise. There is a lot of money flowing into Ostland so things are rapidly improving, but we don't really produce a lot yet. Most of our province is covered by the death forest, and while the south has problems their provinces is mostly covered in farmland or they contain some other important trade good/centre of trade.
 
I think Ostland's key contribution, at least in the minds of most in the southern Empire, is the fact that it makes a shit-ton of guns and cannons (and Hohenzollern cocktails) that have pretty majorly improved the firepower of the northern provinces of the Empire. Which is a pretty big deal. Ostland also makes a bunch of good alcohol; it's basically the alcohol capital of the Empire if you don't count wine.

And breadbasket or not, Ostland and Nordland provide a pretty important buffer against Norsca and Chaos from the north.
 
a pretty important buffer

is pretty much northlands and ostlands MO for forever now at least this time around they have "modern" weapons and over all better armor
 
TeJay said:
Maybe we could send an expedition to the New World.
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We can send a expedition to the New World, Cathay, Araby, the Southlands, basically anywhere we want.

The problem is that doing so would send our navy there, leaving the coast unprotected by X amount of Ostland ships (maybe the whole fleet).

Stick to Albion, it's close, and if we can improve the human presence there we might be able to be rid of the Dark Elf influence on Albion.
 
Marlin said:
We can send a expedition to the New World, Cathay, Araby, the Southlands, basically anywhere we want.

The problem is that doing so would send our navy there, leaving the coast unprotected by X amount of Ostland ships (maybe the whole fleet).

Stick to Albion, it's close, and if we can improve the human presence there we might be able to be rid of the Dark Elf influence on Albion.
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Hell, even with the ships at HOME we don't really have enough to keep the coasts clear. Merely contest it so they don't treat it as an All You Can Loot Buffet
 
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