Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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I also think that if we're going to start bringing up legal reforms the best way to avoid treading on toes would be the Elector Counts hashing out broad general guidelines, the Emperor filling in some details, and then leaving the implemention to each individual Count
 
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I just remembered as reason why this proposal is guaranteed to piss off the dwarves, both in the Empire and abroad.

Ostland has Bugman's Brewery.
 
Food is generally a good indicator of which people have too much money. Perhaps there ought to be a tax on those whose meals could feed a household in quantity and pay for an orphanage in quality...

Or just a tax on rich people that don't have military obligations like normal nobles.
 
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Also why would the halfling get special treatment they dont offer anything which a pesant on there land could not do. They dont deserve special privilage. Especially since they dont provide a lot of military power to the empire. Where are the battalions of halfling state troops. They are a provence and as such have obligation.are they even meeting them.
 
The Pre-Empting Outrage action has not finished yet so we better not leak news of our legal reform until we are ready for the reaction from home first but that wont stop us from using all the experience Freddy gained going over what is likely at least a thousand years of legal documents for over decade to bury The Starbrook Package in amendments , litigation and other legal non sense
 
We don't tax people based on what they use, we tax them based on what they produce. Taxing halflings less because their homes are smaller only makes sense if we differentiate based on house size, which we do not.

Also, by that logic we'd have to tax ogres more, which isn't going to happen.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
I get the basics of what you're going towards, and I like it. But please, elaborate for us all so we're on the exact same, exciting page...!
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The official reason for this proposal is to support halfling exports, while unofficially it's to hinder the exports of Stirland and the Trident. This means that it's going to hit most noticeably where the exports from the latter provinces compete with the Moot, such as beer from Ostland. Thing is, one of the beer producers in Ostland is Bugman's Brewery, which is a cultural icon of the dwarves as a people. Combine that with how the tax proposal explicitly bars the dwarves from receiving similar modification despite their also being small people, and it looks as though the Jax's plans have consequences worthy of a grudge. Now, the tax plan doesn't require dramatic modification to avoid such misunderstandings, but the Starbrook Package warrants more detailed examination to avoid any other unexpected surprises.
Deathbybunnies said:
We don't tax people based on what they use, we tax them based on what they produce. Taxing halflings less because their homes are smaller only makes sense if we differentiate based on house size, which we do not.

Also, by that logic we'd have to tax ogres more, which isn't going to happen.
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Wait, is the tax based on productivity?
 
.........I Kinda want to send some Witch Hunters down there, just a sort of......."Well They might be Chaosy but I didn't tell you that" sorta thing.
 
The Moot in general is like a huge parasite draining the empire from supplies necessary to keep their campaigns running, it's no wonder people dislike Halflings.
 
torroar said:
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Nice avatar.

[] Reject It: You will not let the Moot simply dictate terms to you after what they've done! Perhaps you can work something out in Ostland for Ostland's halflings, in your own time.
[] Refuse: This will lessen the economic benefit that others will receive, but at least it won't hurt Ostland.
[] Advise Them To Refuse: Don't let this bastard tell you what to do. Tell him to sit on it. He knows that this will hurt your province. You're practically asking him to stab you in the back!

Nope. 'The Empire' is a glorified military alliance and everyone treats it as such. Wealth for the other provinces will only help us if the Count of that province decides to go out of their way to arrange it. Going by everything we have seen in this quest? Not going to happen.
So no, I am utterly against weakening the Trident in order to further fatten the already richer southern lands.
 
Angelform said:
Nope. 'The Empire' is a glorified military alliance and everyone treats it as such. Wealth for the other provinces will only help us if the Count of that province decides to go out of their way to arrange it. Going by everything we have seen in this quest? Not going to happen.
So no, I am utterly against weakening the Trident in order to further fatten the already richer southern lands.
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No, the best thing we can do is get the best out of this deal we can. Even perhaps make it a showcase for our own ideas on the reform of the law code. Without the Empire, Ostland would have no peace. It would be every province against every other province. I say we do whatever we can to make the Empire a good, powerful, and dutiful institution. Magnus the Pious would be the first to agree to such a thing. The Emperor must be powerful, but he must also be accountable.
 
So who can we get to go for voting some of this down? If the trident stays a block we just need what the Sigmarite priests and Logan and one more vote to defeat a majority?
 
Praetor98 said:
No, the best thing we can do is get the best out of this deal we can. Even perhaps make it a showcase for our own ideas on the reform of the law code. Without the Empire, Ostland would have no peace. It would be every province against every other province. I say we do whatever we can to make the Empire a good, powerful, and dutiful institution. Magnus the Pious would be the first to agree to such a thing. The Emperor must be powerful, but he must also be accountable.
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We're hardly touched by this. It's our allies that are getting bent over the barrel. If we support this, there is no reason to think they wouldn't take it poorly.
 
I have to ask what the details of the tax actually are? If the tax is simply square area that a house takes, then a larger number of halflings can live in a house of the same volume for instance. If it is a bedroom tax regardless of the size of bedrooms and halfling bedrooms are typically smaller, fair enough they are right to ask for a change in how this works.

Frankly I don't know if the current imperial tax is fair or acting against the halflings, I don't know if the change makes it fairer or if it is blatantly prohalfling.

I think we need some actual lore information about this... and historical (real life and warhammer) context


Edit: and why exactly are we being told to vote on something this major with so little notice (for Freddy I mean) this sort of thing needs to be looked at carefully and have people actually debate and work towards making this an effective and acceptable law.
 
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Honestly, @Ganurath probably has the best argument to persuade the religious leaders ratifying the laws- by asking them to consider the impact on the dwarves. Also, given that Middenland has its Under-city, I doubt they'll want to piss off any of the dwarves they've got. So we have a half-decent chance of changing Gunthar's vote too.
 
Write-In Idea for the Size Tax Deduction:
[] Reject It: There are more races residing as respectable citizens within the Empire than humans and halflings, and the dwarves in particular might take offense if they were excluded from any size-related deduction. By the same token, a change that applies to all races would be detrimental to the ogres, and a substantial percentage of those in Ostland have ties to the halfling community through shared worship of Esmerelda. You think you can better represent halfling interests in Ostland be addressing the matter internally.

Sometimes, the reason behind which side you take is at least as important as the side taken.
 
We can already discredit them a bit just saying "While this proposal hinders us, the more important thing is that it screws over (insert provinces here) that took the blunt of the fighting lately. This will screw over their ability to rebuild and create a weak underbelly for our enemies to strike at us."

Remember to say the provinces themselves, not to refer to them as our allies. Otherwise someone might get the wrong idea and think we trying to consolidate power instead of helping the empire. Yes, both can be look at that way. The first way will mean they have to stretch things a bit more.
 
Orkus Majorkus said:
So who can we get to go for voting some of this down? If the trident stays a block we just need what the Sigmarite priests and Logan and one more vote to defeat a majority?
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the trident (so 3 votes)
they know it will hurt them and can put out a united front

Stirland (1 vote)
its from the moots that is all the reason they would need

Middenland (2 votes)
if they find out it will hurt them than they will vote against it

totaling at 6 votes
 
We really can't accept starbrooks proposal so long as it directly attacks Ava's wine monopoly. It doesn't even matter how much it helps the empire because she is too unhinged regarding the moot to forgive it and we need her. We just have too many enemies at this point. we could probably break marinburg off by saying we should add all monopolies to it for whatever bullshit reason the moot used for the wine monopoly. If they wanna divide us? Well two can play at that game, turn starbrooks petty cheap shot against him and show Ava we got her back even if we agree to the amended proposal. I really don't the moot consulted marinburg before adding that line about the wine monopoly, being able to bust a monopoly at the drop of a hat for the good of the empire is not something they would want as public knowledge.

Edit:also can we put a hold on the vote for a few days To look it over and ask opinions? This is a quasi middle age setting and he pulled out a stack of papers with no notice.
 
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