Imperial Ogre Culture Corner: Religion
AN: Sorry for double post, but have an omake.

Imperial Ogre Culture Corner: Religion
It seems fitting that while most Imperial Ogres have been adjusting towards a much more productive life within the Empire compared to their homeland in the east since the Era of the Three Emperors, it hasn't been until the reign of Magnus the Pious that the race has really begun to find them themselves spiritually after generations of moving away from the Great Maw. While ceasing to worship the now thoroughly outlawed god was a good first step, an absence of faith in the long run leaves a soul open to corruption, therefore in recent years it is heartening to see Imperial Ogres fully immerse themselves in the proper cults and in the process make the Empire stronger.

It is within Ostland that the vast majority of Imperial Ogres live and as a result has been the place where ogres began their journey on the path of proper godly belief, and since then have developed in many interesting ways.

The biggest influence on the religious beliefs of Imperial Ogres is no doubt due to the example given by the greatest example of their kind, Sir Captain Headmaster Urgdug Greatbellow etc. Being not just the first knighted Ogre in Empire and most likely world history due to extreme heroism during the Ostland Vampire War, but also the blood brother to the Elector Count of Ostland.

Sir Greatbellow's influence among his kind is so great it drew in a number of Maw Ogres from the east to the Empire and more likely than not when he does something other Ogres will strive to follow his example. Combined with the support of the ruling House of Ostland Imperial Ogres have received a great deal of support to move far beyond their savage cousins in the east.

Since her introduction it should come to no surprise that Imperial Ogres are strong followers of Esmeralda, some say even more so than the Halflings before the cult's growth.

Where the Great Maw encourages mindless and ceaseless gorging of oneself Esmeralda advocates eating in a much more healthy manner, until one is satisfied. Also unlike the Maw, Esmeralda focuses on the importance of hearth and home, of the personal relationships with friends and family in a friendly setting rather than seeing everything as either food or an obstacle to that food.

During the Cult of Esmeralda's initial growth in Ostland local Ogres were easily the most common visitors to the Grand, and later Great, Kitchens besides the Halflings themselves due to the easy access to well made food in amounts to satisfy even their tremendous stomachs. Since then it is quite odd when an Ogre doesn't visit a Kitchen at least a few times a day. Said Ogres are also some of the staunchest defenders of peace within said Kitchens and pity the fools who attempt to disrupt it, more than one attempted drunken brawl or other attempts of violence have been violently ended before they could even start with local Ogre patrons and members of cult bodily throwing them out of Kitchen if peace cannot be reached with words. Gathering in the Kitchens serve an important role in Imperial Ogre social interactions in the same way taverns do for most peasants.

The Cult of Esmeralda was the first cult that Imperial Ogres started to join in numbers and a part of Ogre culture that has survived to common day among Imperial Ogres is the fact that those that prepare and serve food are seen with a great deal of respect among the race. Where once Butchers and Slaughtermasters were seen as leaders alongside chieftains it is the Severs and Chefs of the Cult of Esmeralda that naturally are seen as important figures in their daily lives.

Considering the importance of both food and Esmeralda in their daily lives Ostlander Ogres and Halflings seem to naturally gravitate towards each other and usually become fast friends. This is seen all around with many Ogres and Halflings going into business with each other and groups of the the two races mingling freely inside and out of the various Kitchens.

Imperial Ogres commonly invoke Esmeralda whenever food is involved and people that noticed that ever since widespread worship of the goddess the Ogres seem more at peace and settled than they might have once felt.

The most recent addition to cults that Imperial Ogres have heavily invested in is the cults of Taal and Rhya.

This makes sense when one considers that tenants of both gods preach balance with surroundings where those who follow the Great Maw see everything as something to conquer and devour. After encouragement by Sir Greatbellow many Ogres who live in the more rural parts of Ostland took to learning from the cults in earnest and now are proud members of both.

Today Imperial Ogres in the cults serve along the same gender lines with males serving Taal and females serving Rhya.

Alongside serving the tasks of the cults and their sects Ogres who follow Taal and Rhya tend to live more rural lives than before with men hunting within the forest and women focusing more on agriculture. Both groups make pilgrimage to the various holy sites of the married gods across the province since their return to the cults' hands in recent years. While their inclusion into the cult has been recent many see their devotion to two of the oldest gods of humanity as a positive sign and the cults themselves welcome them the same as any new additions to the faith.

On the other side of the coin Imperial Ogre belief for other major gods of the Empire is... respectfully lacking.

Despite the extreme popularity of Morr within Ostland the local Ogres seem to give little more than respectful lip service to the god of death and dreams out of respect for those in charge such as Ser Greatbellow and the Count saying to do it rather than actual earnest faith. Even the Vampire War of Ostland that has deeply entrenched itself into the mind and culture of the people to point they welcomed the Cult of Morr into province with open arms hasn't seemed to nearly as effect Imperial Ogres mentally to the same degree. While many will joke that Ogres are too dumb to mentally scar the truth is that the race is simply psychologically hardy alongside their physical constitution, thus things that can break a man's mind would barely effect them.

In all fairness while they are lacking in faith they have learned the common sense of presenting their dead to the Cult of Morr to be properly treated if nothing else and the priests do not begrudge their lack of faith, being respectfully ignored is far better than outright fear and hatred the cult has suffered in the past.

In fact, just as the Imperial Ogres learned over time to move away from Great Maw worship, they have learned to follow the local culture with great degrees of success within a relatively short period of time. They will respect those who follower Sigmar but view him as the god of man so haven't reached out to his cult, more are likely to learn more of Ulric but most find themselves draw to his brother Taal in comparison, and while the hardy race has rare occasion to seek out the cult of Shallya they appreciate their kindness.

Most are not even aware what Verena and Myrmidia represent but know they are not illegal and therefore speak well of them.

A good example of this cultural integration is the fact that Imperial Ogres that live on Ostland's coasts will say and speak well of Manann since it is expected of them rather than any true faith.

While this might seem as a negative thing one must remember that all citizens of Empire have preferred gods they worship over the others, the fact that Imperial Ogres have theirs and are respectful towards the other gods is honestly more open minded than most citizens. As long as they are following the proper faiths and working towards benefit of wider Empire few will complain.

While it is still quite early in their spiritual development many Imperial holy men are optimistic that Imperial Ogres can overcome the savagery of the majority of their race and find the right path under the guidance of the gods, a feat of which more impressive than many heathen humans who worship the Ruinous Powers and other foul beings.

During this time under the Pious we thank all the gods for their support in leading not just men of the Empire but all of it citizens, small and large.
 
Mmm, but it also features portions like the Ostland section where it says things like 'population of 98 missing' and such for its locations. Which implies, to me, that those are the general numbers that are used Empire-wide. Things like Nordland's '1,200 residents fate unknown' for a place like Frote.

As in, if the numbers are different from their 'former' state', it would be noted in the margins for the significant places sections.

So...yeah. I just sorta increased the numbers for a lot of things. Hence the sheer number of goblins in Karak Ungor, the size of the Grand Army of Kislev, city populations, etc.
Ostland is all rural and suffers from the same problem as other rural places in the Empire in that there aren't enough towns/villages/hamlets and not enough people living in said towns/villages/hamlets.

I make no justifications for the rural areas. Just the population of the larger cities.
 
Ostland is all rural and suffers from the same problem as other rural places in the Empire in that there aren't enough towns/villages/hamlets and not enough people living in said towns/villages/hamlets.

I make no justifications for the rural areas. Just the population of the larger cities.
We could always pin it on everyone having really bad census takers and tax evasion evolving into an artform.

A few coins change hands and, hey, which village were we talking about again? I don't see any village here...
 
not sure what point your trying to make or why you added my in that post but even if that all true.
what was the point your trying to make here?

That the Elves and Dwarfes birth rates and gender distribution were cribbed from Tolkien and that GW never bothered to go back and make them more integrated into their world even after they changed it so much the numbers stopped adding up.
 
Ostland is all rural and suffers from the same problem as other rural places in the Empire in that there aren't enough towns/villages/hamlets and not enough people living in said towns/villages/hamlets.

I make no justifications for the rural areas. Just the population of the larger cities.

Oh no, it's a good justification. It's just...I need more bodies.

What a disturbing thing to say, but there it is.
 
The only thing GW is consistent in is their lack of consistency.

If only. If Only. They are consistent in ignoring the very concept of Good and choosing instead to set their stories in struggles between the Neutral and the Evil. And when they do write genuine Good into their settings it is always an ephemeral and temporary thing while Evil seeps into everything in the world slowly and in rapid sputters. GW isn't interested in writing a story about Good vs Evil. It just wants a fight with Neutral Lawful and Neutral Evil vs the various shades of Chaotic Evil. They are consistent in that.
 
If only. If Only. They are consistent in ignoring the very concept of Good and choosing instead to set their stories in struggles between the Neutral and the Evil. And when they do write genuine Good into their settings it is always an ephemeral and temporary thing while Evil seeps into everything in the world slowly and in rapid sputters. GW isn't interested in writing a story about Good vs Evil. It just wants a fight with Neutral Lawful and Neutral Evil vs the various shades of Chaotic Evil. They are consistent in that.
Word. Thank goodness for torroar, or i'd probably outright hate the setting
 
Yeah, I really liked the way Imrix solved the elf paradox, other than the Wood Elf thing, which I feel need a larger population, especially since Athel Loren is such a potent empyrean realm.

I have to disagree.

The Forest does a bunch of lifting for them, what with all the sapient trees and dryads and such.

And keep in mind that the Beastmen are an existential threat to their nation. That would only make sense if there were not all that many Wood elves to go around. The Drucchi live in a frozen hellhole surrounded by forests packed with Beastmen and Chaos warbands attacking from the Chaos Wastes, but those issues are not shown to be that large a threat to them. But the occasional Beastmen horde wandering into Athel Loren is a big issue for the Wood Elves.

They also feel the need to use Brettonia as a large shield against most of the evil crap wandering the Old World.

Comparatively the High Elves and Druuchi each rule over an entire continent and can project force into all corners of the world at will.

It just does not seem like the Wood Elves have remotely close to the same numbers.
 
I have to disagree.

The Forest does a bunch of lifting for them, what with all the sapient trees and dryads and such.

And keep in mind that the Beastmen are an existential threat to their nation. That would only make sense if there were not all that many Wood elves to go around. The Drucchi live in a frozen hellhole surrounded by forests packed with Beastmen and Chaos warbands attacking from the Chaos Wastes, but those issues are not shown to be that large a threat to them. But the occasional Beastmen horde wandering into Athel Loren is a big issue for the Wood Elves.

They also feel the need to use Brettonia as a large shield against most of the evil crap wandering the Old World.

Comparatively the High Elves and Druuchi each rule over an entire continent and can project force into all corners of the world at will.

It just does not seem like the Wood Elves have remotely close to the same numbers.
The pact between the Elves and Forest was made when the Dawi invaded with their axes(there would be repeat incidents of Dwarven greed for Athel Loren lumber). And when the earthquakes wrought havoc on the Dwarven realms it resulted in something known as the Winter of Woe, which is when the Greenskins came down from the mountains in such numbers that they almost managed to torch the Oak of Ages.
Also a bit about Kemmler wanting to get his hands on those sweet ancient Elven burial Cairns but that canonically only happened in 2495.
Anyway, my point is that the occasional Beastmen Warherd is not their only issue. Even if they're on good terms with the Bretonnians nowadays.

The problem Wood Elves have with the Beastmen on the other hand is that Morghur doesn't die when he is killed.*
Also that, while the Warherds tend to get slaughtered, Morghur is known as The Corruptor" for a reason. A number of near-victories for the Asrai have been turned into defeats when the Dryads(also the Treemen but the Dryads are more prone to this) suddenly turned on the Wood Elves.

Wood Elves army book, 5th and 7th edition.

Also, I'd reckon the Asur and Druchii are far less fettered when it comes to the primary and secondary sectors of the economy. As isolationist semi-nomadic hippie societies aren't exactly known for being economic powerhouses.

*the first time Morghur was killed, it was Ariel casting a spell while it grappled with the Treeman Coeddil. Fast-forward 500 years and Coeddil(plus Dryad handmaidens) managed to resist the pull of winter and tried to kill Ariel and Orion while they were dormant. Lingering corruption was listed as a possible cause.
 
Hey op, been meaning to ask, if word got out a group of dwarfs were smearing Fredrick's name, how many people would levy grudges against them in all of Karaz Ankor, maybe not for our self, but on behalf of say mocking the friend of Thorgrim or Baragor and questioning their choice in friends?
 
Hey op, been meaning to ask, if word got out a group of dwarfs were smearing Fredrick's name, how many people would levy grudges against them in all of Karaz Ankor, maybe not for our self, but on behalf of say mocking the friend of Thorgrim or Baragor and questioning their choice in friends?
Why would the dwarves be smearing Frederick's name? With all that he has done for the Dawi. They would have to be Pretty stupid or chaos dwarves to think they could get away with it. And then there is what happened with that greedy female dwarf wh roused Grimnirs ire after the battle of the blood fane. She got the Dawi god of the underworld pissed at her. The other Dwarves would all bear grudges against them for it.
 
Why would the dwarves be smearing Frederick's name? With all that he has done for the Dawi. They would have to be Pretty stupid or chaos dwarves to think they could get away with it. And then there is what happened with that greedy female dwarf wh roused Grimnirs ire after the battle of the blood fane. She got the Dawi god of the underworld pissed at her. The other Dwarves would all bear grudges against them for it.
I think they were just curious as to the standard Dawi response to the slander of a friend, and whether that applied to Dawongr.
 
If I recall the rumor mill after we got back from Karak Ungor dwarfs were getting into tavern brawls over the fact people didn't believe all the things Freddy did in that hole in the ground
 
If I recall the rumor mill after we got back from Karak Ungor dwarfs were getting into tavern brawls over the fact people didn't believe all the things Freddy did in that hole in the ground
I think that was a different scenerio. The dwarves (mostly those dwarves who live in the human empire) were brawling with humans out of a sense of loyalty to the actions of the high king in KU.
Defending the tale of KU against shoddy workers is one thing, defending against fellow dwarves is another.

Dwarves that live in the human empire, are usually perceived in the greater dwarf empire, as the descendants of those who gave up the fight for the dwarf empire.
 
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I think that was a different scenerio. The dwarves (mostly those dwarves who live in the human empire) were brawling with humans out of a sense of loyalty to the actions of the high king in KU.
Defending the tale of KU against shoddy workers is one thing, defending against fellow dwarves is another.

Dwarves that live in the human empire, are usually perceived in the greater dwarf empire, as the descendants of those who gave up the fight for the dwarf empire.

I don't think Dwarfs will fight Dwarfs over Freddy's good name.

They may shame and ostracize the nay-sayer into taking the Slayer oath though.
 
I think the logic is more that Freddy being named a Dwarf Friend means there are Dwarves who personally vouch for him. And that slandering Freddy is to imply that the Dwarves who vouch for Freddy have poor judgement.
Basically, it can be seen as indirectly calling the likes of Jozef Bugman a senile fool.

In the case of Karak Ungor, questioning the events that took place would be more akin to denying that the people who died in the events died in the honourable manner for the worthy cause as the Dwarves claimed and that the Dwarves who recorded the event are liars.
 
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To be fair, last time we called out a bunch of those wankers who'd done that, a pack of them ended up going Slayer from the DISHONNA.
 
Hey Torroar, I was curious about something, do the Strigany exist here? Since they are from pretty old lore, and they probably have some interesting concepts you could work with.
Strigany
 
Of course they exist. The strigoi have been shown to exist, in the form of multiple ghoul leaders n'such. Can't really do the strigoi without the strigany, yeah? [Least, that's my opinion. I try to include all the parts of the vampire bloodlines, origins, allies, etc.]

Why? Do you...want them to come up to Ostland and make issues of themselves? They sort of decided as a group to avoid the place after the Vampire War. Ostland still is not nearly as safe as province to wander around as the southern places. None want to risk their caravans getting shredded on the roads in the forests.
 
Of course they exist. The strigoi have been shown to exist, in the form of multiple ghoul leaders n'such. Can't really do the strigoi without the strigany, yeah? [Least, that's my opinion. I try to include all the parts of the vampire bloodlines, origins, allies, etc.]

Why? Do you...want them to come up to Ostland and make issues of themselves? They sort of decided as a group to avoid the place after the Vampire War. Ostland still is not nearly as safe as province to wander around as the southern places. None want to risk their caravans getting shredded on the roads in the forests.
I was just curious, since they looked interesting, and they seemed like really obscure lore. I honestly should have expected it since you have already been shown to incorporate really old or obscure lore elements.
 
No worries. We'll never know until we ask. At the same time, sometimes, I have to resist answering much at all, lest that give away obvious issues. Like the Arabyan vampire bloodline, I recall someone asking me about them, and I couldn't say much beyond 'yeah, I'm aware of 'em'. Or things like Zoats, or Ymir, or other such obscure beasts and things. But yes, Strigany are a thing. As are Tong, Dolgan, historical ruins and evidence of the Scythians, etc. S'all in there. Even if it doesn't get utilized in-person within the quest, doesn't mean they aren't in the world.

Unless I don't know something, in which case depending on it I'll backdate it into the world. Or not. Some things aren't present in this quest, like certain chunks of the 1ED of the Kislev book stuff.
 
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