Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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065tdsa said:
Something to remember is Bretonnia is basically assembled as a defensive faction. Very limited number of hard to replace super elites means their ability to cover ground is limited, but their force concentration is awesome. Also, other gods help them if their attrition rates go too high for too long, because the Lady can't do much of anything if too many of the knights die and can't be replaced them before next round (keeping in mind that replacing them implies raising more from birth because commoners who can become knights are one in a million).

The Empire is better suited for covering all the land it controls and defending against multiple directions at the same time, including from the various shitholes that are within it's borders, constantly. In attrition warfare, they simply replace their fighters faster.
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This makes me want to smash my head against walls and doors and other stuff made of good solid wood. Its true! These CK2 stories just throw tens of thousands of people away and replace them like grain, goodness is it a bit irritating. More so for bretonnian stories, people send like 10k Knight Errants to war and lose half, but then they somehow magic up another army a few years later.

ninjafish said:
oh...

Well fuck her then.
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She's a shit god in the morality department, but a damn good god when it comes to getting shit done. Sigmar is better though, he made Warrior Priests.
 
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Slaggedfire said:
I didn't want to pull this card, but it seems I have no choice. Warrior Priests, I rest my case. Jokes aside, we can't really trust anything written because it is always based on whoever the author favors :/. This is why I love reading quests, the dice have no favorites.
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Oh no, like this isn't even 'biased' stuff: All this is varying degrees of full-on canon. One of the big things in End Times was King Louen bringing the near entirety of the Bretonnian chivalry to save Altdorf. And heck, Bretonnia in the Nemesis Crown campaign literally decided to be wicked chivalrous allies of the Empire rather than making a land grab that... honestly, probably would've succeeded.

Slaggedfire said:
Implying that Wood Elves can be reasonable.
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Depends on the continuity, really. 5e Wood Elves are allied with Bretonnia because Orion and Ariel tested one knight and found him to be so respectably honorable that they decided Bretonnia was just plainly a place worth allying with.
CrossyCross said:
...ah, yeah, that's kind of sad really.
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I mean, it makes sense I think.

The Empire's big thing is that its more a conglomerate of a dozen tribes and kingdoms that barely tolerate each other on their best days and where the Emperor has to fight tooth and nail to get all of the chucklefucks in charge to step in line. Bretonnia is better off because... well, everyone just follows the king by default because he's literally the paragon every warrior in the country strives to emulate.

The Imperial provinces would be perfectly willing to watch their neighbors burn, let alone foreigners, but the Bretonnians are just sort of inclined to outward displays of honor as a matter of gaining prestige.
 
065tdsa said:
Something to remember is Bretonnia is basically assembled as a defensive faction. Very limited number of hard to replace super elites means their ability to cover ground is limited, but their force concentration is awesome. Also, other gods help them if their attrition rates go too high for too long, because the Lady can't do much of anything if too many of the knights die and can't be replaced them before next round (keeping in mind that replacing them implies raising more from birth because commoners who can become knights are one in a million).

The Empire is better suited for covering all the land it controls and defending against multiple directions at the same time, including from the various shitholes that are within it's borders, constantly. In attrition warfare, they simply replace their fighters faster.
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Don't be silly, commoners who can become knights are much lower then one in a million.
 
ninjafish said:
they honestly seem like a bunch of mary sues.

but france loves their mary sues.

just ask Sir Lancelot.

The lady is kind of a mary sue goddess as well, like seriously? why is she able to bless so many more people than any other order gods, including ones with more faith and older powerbases.

The "Elvish meatshield theory" honestly seems the most legit in that context.
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Andres110 said:
Male babies with magical potential are taken away at birth and their souls are used to fuel those blessings.
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That's, as far as I know, a fan theory with only sparse evidence present in canon.

There's an equally well purported theory, for example, where all the male children go after to become rad-as-fuck wizard-knights (which honestly would've been better for the Brets if it was true, given what it could've done for their unit count).
 
ninjafish said:
oh...

Well fuck her then.
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Andres110 said:
Male babies with magical potential are taken away at birth and their souls are used to fuel those blessings.
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Well that, or they become super-magic-Grail-Knights.

It's amazing how easy life is when you work with the fae and the elves instead of antagonizing them, innit.

God and the Snake said:
Depends on the continuity, really. 5e Wood Elves are allied with Bretonnia because Orion and Ariel tested one knight and found him to be so respectably honorable that they decided Bretonnia was just plainly a place worth allying with.
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You really gonna say that then not give details?
 
God and the Snake said:
That's, as far as I know, a fan theory with only sparse evidence present in canon.

There's an equally well purported theory, for example, where all the male children go after to become rad-as-fuck wizard-knights (which honestly would've been better for the Brets if it was true, given what it could've done for their unit count).
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I prefer the battery theory, it keeps Bretonnia normalish...

I don't like one group being super powerful with barely any downsides, it makes everything feel rather pointless when you can just have Bretonnia launch a super Crusade against the Northern Wastes. I'm actually starting to feel a bit sick just at the thought, it's like climbing a mountain and finding an elevator at the top.
 
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Voikirium said:
That and it's always been a supposition of mine that the Brets are to the Wood Elves and High Elves as the Empire is to dwarfs, but shhh no time for that now.
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....what? no, seriously, what? The wild hunt regularly goes out into bretonnia and ices random dudes for getting in the way. Thats *NOTHING* like the dwarf-empire alliance.
And the high elves? seriously, what are you smoking, because I want some. the high-elves basically have a 'you stay over there, we stay over here' arrangement when it comes to the old world. Teclis' good-deed boner notwithstanding, they hardly ever come over or WANT to come over to the empire or bretonnia. The Wood Elves were CREATED by the High Elves deciding they didnt want to be over there anymore.
 
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God and the Snake said:
That's, as far as I know, a fan theory with only sparse evidence present in canon.

There's an equally well purported theory, for example, where all the male children go after to become rad-as-fuck wizard-knights (which honestly would've been better for the Brets if it was true, given what it could've done for their unit count).
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This is actually the only one of the theories that has solid canon evidence. Not "this may be one of the truths" but rather "in the short storyinvolving Louen before becoming a Grail Knight, some shenanigans has him briefly awakening the magical boys gathered over the millenia who are now all powerful wizard knights who help him defeat an army of Undead".

"Warhammer canon" still means that it can be ignored for your own headcanon, but it's the only one with a story outright proving it, just like how the Emperor's Children in 40K lost their geneseed has now had a conclusive story showing how it happened.

Trazyn stole the geneseed. All 18k of them.
 
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CrossyCross said:
This is actually the only one of the theories that has solid canon evidence. Not "this may be one of the truths" but rather "in the book involving Louen before becoming a Grail Knight, some shenanigans has him briefly awakening the magical boys gathered over the millenia who are now all powerful wizard knights who help him defeat an army of Undead".

"Warhammer canon" still means that it can be ignored for your own headcanon, but it's the only one with a story outright proving it, just like how the Emperor's Children in 40K lost their geneseed has now had a conclusive story showing how it happened.

Trazyn stole the geneseed. All 18k of them.
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If they have Super Grail Knights, which are better than normal Grail Knights (Grail Knights who are the equal to Lords of Chaos), then they should use them. God I hate stuff like this, why keep them in reserve?
 
Slaggedfire said:
If they have Super Grail Knights, which are better than normal Grail Knights (Grail Knights who are the equal to Lords of Chaos), then they should use them. God I hate stuff like this, why keep them in reserve?
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Because they serve as the Lady's boytoys footstools minions 'courtiers' in her mystical lake!

Yeah, it's pretty weird, hence why I say I'm fine with taking it noncanon.
 
Voikirium said:
Well that, or they become super-magic-Grail-Knights.
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pretty sure magical grail knights would have been mentioned.

Going to assume that's she's baby eating evil.

because it makes the rampant blessings make sense.

Only chaos blesses that many of its warriors, therefore the lady is using chaos tactics herself.

IE fueling her blessings with the souls of murdered babies.
 
ninjafish said:
pretty sure magical grail knights would have been mentioned.

Going to assume that's she's baby eating evil.

Suddenly the rampant blessings make sense.

Only chaos blesses that many of its warriors, therefore the lady is using chaos tactics herself.

IE fueling her blessings with the souls of murdered babies.
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...I know saying stupid shit is your modus operandi, but if you could, like, stop for just once, that'd be lovely.
 
To derail this talk about gods, brettonia, and grail knights, which has gone on for quite awhile, what do people think of making an official Underhold for Wulfenburg, along with maybe getting some Dwarven Smiths to join our Street of Steel?
 
Voikirium said:
Well that, or they become super-magic-Grail-Knights.

It's amazing how easy life is when you work with the fae and the elves instead of antagonizing them, innit.


You really gonna say that then not give details?
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This is mostly just second hand stuff, mind - 5e was well before my time. UA did a great post on it here, though I'll give an abridged version.

Louis the Rash sent a Questing Knight into Athel Loren to present the terms of an alliance with the Wood Elves. As he journeyed through it, the elves and fae within harried him with horrid visions and illusory monstrosities: Had he ran, or reacted with violence, they'd have killed him like any other wild-man that wandered into the forest. But the knight did neither; instead, he remained calm and just continued on. The elves became so impressed that they guided him to Ariel and Orion, where he logically laid out the terms of Louis's treaty and managed to persuade the two divine incarnations of an isolationist power that working with the humans beyond their borders was the best course of action.

Which I think is a really strong example of how knights should be both in and out of universe. They're not just brainless killing machines: Each of them is aspiring to become a true hero in their own right, and there's more to heroics then just slaying monsters.

Slaggedfire said:
I prefer the battery theory, it keeps Bretonnia normalish...

I don't like one group being super powerful with barely any downsides, it makes everything feel rather pointless when you can just have Bretonnia launch a super Crusade against the Northern Wastes. I'm actually starting to feel a bit sick just at the thought, it's like climbing a mountain and finding an elevator at the top.
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I mean, there's a ton of downsides. The Lady's powers have a ton strictures that must be followed, or she will pull her blessings in the middle of the battle. A knight literally cannot refuse a challenge, no matter how outmatched they are, because to do so would be breaking the Lady's laws of chivalry (and this is an actually TT mechanic, mind you!).

Plus, 'mage batteries' isn't just cringy. It's... really boring. There's so many more interesting ways you could justify Bretonnia's peculiarities that could resonate with the broader lore that using a cop out like that is just a waste of potential.
 
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Voikirium said:
...I know saying stupid shit is your modus operandi, but if you could, like, stop for just once, that'd be lovely.
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Brettonia is made of stupid shit.

Like the way you guys talk about it literally makes no fucking sense as part of the setting.

It's literally a bunch of mary sues. (in ancient French tradition I guess)
 
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Nix's Warden said:
To derail this talk about gods, brettonia, and grail knights, which has gone on for quite awhile, what do people think of making an official Underhold for Wulfenburg, along with maybe getting some Dwarven Smiths to join our Street of Steel?
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Eh, I prefer human Worksmanship. Everyone wants a dwarf to make their armor, where is that human pride? We'll never improve if we rely on the big brother of the empire.

God and the Snake said:
I mean, there's a ton of downsides. The Lady's powers have a ton strictures that must be followed, or she will pull her blessings in the middle of the battle. A knight literally cannot refuse a challenge, no matter how outmatched they are, because to do so would be breaking the Lady's laws of chivalry (and this is an actually TT mechanic, mind you!).

Plus, 'mage batteries' isn't just cringy. It's... really boring. There's so many more interesting ways you could justify Bretonnia's peculiarities that could resonate with the broader lore that using a cop out like that is just a waste of potential.
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No one here has said anything other than Super Grail Knights and Batteries, so I chose the lesser of two evils in my mind.
 
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Chivalrous Gestalt link? Like the orks and their Whaaaag, except with chivalry and screaming about the lady. Most magic children only enhance the link, adding more power to the lady to grant more Grail Knights power.
 
Slaggedfire said:
Eh, I prefer human Worksmanship. Everyone wants a dwarf to make their armor, where is that human pride? We'll never improve if we rely on the big brother of the empire.
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I just want more competition going. After all it would be interesting to see the various human blacksmiths from across the Old World competing against each other and also competing against The Dwarves at the same time.

Hell maybe have a second street of steel for Dwarves only. It's not like we have to worry about a limited number of dwarven blacksmiths now.....
 
Nix's Warden said:
I just want more competition going. After all it would be interesting to see the various human blacksmiths from across the Old World competing against each other and also competing against The Dwarves at the same time.

Hell maybe have a second street of steel for Dwarves only. It's not like we have to worry about a limited number of dwarven blacksmiths now.....
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Humans are forever shit tier at everything unless jacked up on god juice or magic in Warhammer fantasy.

Didn't you know that?
 
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