I think a big issue is the military tribunal bit, while they were captured by the military this falls under normal civilian criminal procedure so ugh, we can probably hash out a more "neutral" court for this or start an inter government court system (fat chance)
Come to think of it, does the 300+ relations Orion Union really not have an extradition treaty with the Federation?
Edit: if the trial does end up being held in Union space, I recommend keeping a ship in synchronized orbit over the site ready to beam in a heavily armed away team at a moment's notice. Or hit it with an orbital stun blast as a last resort.
I think a big issue is the military tribunal bit, while they were captured by the military this falls under normal civilian criminal procedure so ugh, we can probably hash out a more "neutral" court for this or start an inter government court system (fat chance)
Does it though? A heavily militarized group of foreign nationals launched a devastating attack on a civilian target. That certainly sounds like something that should be covered by a military tribunal rather then a civilian court. It certainly wouldn't be without precedent since the US' answer to a nearly identical situation, swap out "slaver" for "terrorist", is to judge them in military tribunals.
Of course that is assuming Amarkian courts are anything like IRL ones. For all we know all violence offenses receive military tribunals with regular courts being reserved for non-violent offenses. Hell we don't even know if they have regular courts; it could be that all Amarkian trials are via what we would call a military tribunal.
I seem to remember a fair number of people saying how the Amarki were not to be let anywhere near the Orions. And yet it turns out they are incredibly effective when they get involved. Perhaps we should try and get the Amarki Gendarmes into the fight against the Syndicate.
Even if we are only going to use them as the hammer against extremely dug in and militarized Syndicate positions.
The Amarki taste for summary justice isn't suitable to counterinsurgency. If we need to deal with extreme entrenchment we have the Aerocommandos and Starfleet Intel's special ops team. (And if that's not enough then we have orbital strikes and armed shuttles for close air support.)
The Amarki taste for summary justice isn't suitable to counterinsurgency. If we need to deal with extreme entrenchment we have the Aerocommandos and Starfleet Intel's special ops team. (And if that's not enough then we have orbital strikes and armed shuttles for close air support.)
This is the same argument made back when we chose the Caitians, but yet we now have clear examples of the Amarki not just killing every slaver they see, even when they really have been provoked.
Next, the Sydraxian session, oh boy - though this will probably be less in the way of options and more in the way of revised permissible ROE coming down from the President.
The Amarki taste for summary justice isn't suitable to counterinsurgency. If we need to deal with extreme entrenchment we have the Aerocommandos and Starfleet Intel's special ops team. (And if that's not enough then we have orbital strikes and armed shuttles for close air support.)
And now they've got the ringleaders and they didn't do it.
Who gets to do the trials is largely political. The Amarki absolutely have jurisdicition on everyone involved in the raid (committed in their territory against their people) for the rest, maybe, maybe not. OTOH it might hurt the Orion government's legitimacy to not do it.
Probably the best way to handle it is to have extradition hearings on Broken Chains that double as a trap (Riala and support in orbit, extensive Amarki reinforcement of the security forces) and let trials be divvied up that way. Some of the perps getting properly extradited is much less damaging than a seize and grab trial by foriegn agents.
Or we could go maximum asshole: Double jeopardy generally does not apply to being tried for the same crime by different nations. The Orions try them, then they go to be tried by the Amarki, and serve the sentences consecutively in Federation Supermax.
This is the same argument made back when we chose the Caitians, but yet we now have clear examples of the Amarki not just killing every slaver they see, even when they really have been provoked.
They haven't even been brought before a court yet. There's plenty of time for another airlock incident to occur. And trying them before a military tribunal might be appropriate considering they were engaged in military action against an Amarki colony world but it's not true of all of them, and there is no easy way to separate those guilty of such crimes, and as such it's a rather intemperate approach.
I'd love to see diplomatic guidance or coordinated regional diplomatic strategy for the region from the Council. Obviously getting the Sydraxians to talk is a longshot, but they've been co-opting otherwise friendly species.
I mean, one of the problems here is the Amarki have captured numerous people who probably weren't party to that crime. And possibly not to any other crimes we can prove. We know they're all Syndicate but that's really all we've got for sure.
I mean, one of the problems here is the Amarki have captured numerous people who probably weren't party to that crime. And possibly not to any other crimes we can prove. We know they're all Syndicate but that's really all we've got for sure.
Relatively quite, 15 of that 20 PP will be given to the pacifists next turn. 51 overall impact vs 17 cost. We really need to get better resilience. No mining colony sites unfortunately. Hopefully we get some positive events next turn
Multiple time have I found myself on the figurative edge of my seat while reading through both the story posts, and the supplemental pieces.I just bemoan how we will never stay on top of our ships being made obsolete by the time we build them.
As for the recent Diplomatic quandary, Extradition Hearings, while likely time consuming, are the Federation thing to do.
Mm. If I can't have Kimball Kinnison on our team, I have to admit the combination of the Amarki navy plus Dearre Nixa makes a... not unsatisfactory substitute.
Next, the Sydraxian session, oh boy - though this will probably be less in the way of options and more in the way of revised permissible ROE coming down from the President.
This seems pretty straight forwards. The crime took place in Amarkian territory, one of their colonies, was against Amarkian citizens, and violated Amarkian laws. There isn't really any grounds for the Orions to claim the right to try them. About the only questionable thing would be if the Syndicate base was on an officially recognized Orion planet, something not mentioned in the update.
"The CAS Friec and its task force, led by the heroic Admiral Galeen Toor, has rescued the lost children of the Nahan Lor colony world, smashing a Syndicate slave-auction base in the process. Many financial affiliates of the Syndicate were also collared, and enormous financial wealth was confiscated from criminal hands.
Footage of the CAS Friec arriving into combat range after pin-point strikes by stealthily arriving Hilindia and Odala destroyed the shields around the isolated slave holding cryo trays, allowing them to be beamed to safety. The Friec then destroyed the defences of the main base, scattering the pirates and slavers.
All prisoners are being conveyed back to Amarkia for Military Tribunal hearings, over the protests of the Orion Union government, which is lobbying hard to the Federation for these Orion citizens to be tried in an Alukk court."
Kindly compare the two underlined passages. The problem isn't just the disposition of the known slavers themselves, the ones who kidnapped the Amarki. The problem is also the "many financial affiliates of the Syndicate." Which includes a lot of prominent Orion citizens, if experience is any guide.
Now, we can plausibly argue that many or all of them were guilty of slavery by association, but they deserve a recognizable trial for that. They may be accessories to a crime committed against Amarki in Amarki space, but it is highly unlikely that the accessories themselves acted while in Amarki space. Therefore, Amarki jurisdiction over the "many financial affiliates of the Syndicate" is... doubtful.
And remember that the Amarki are the guys with a reputation for killing presumed slavers without trial.
Just how many pounds of flesh are we prepared to let the Amarki here? And, unlike Shylock, will we be able to figure out a way to give the Amarki their pound of flesh without a reputation for the unlawful effusion of blood?
This is the same argument made back when we chose the Caitians, but yet we now have clear examples of the Amarki not just killing every slaver they see, even when they really have been provoked.
I want to lean on the Amarki a bit. It's fine with me if they try the ones who planned and carried out the crimes in Amarki space, but the 'incidental' ones should be tried in their own nation. The ones that are enemies of all who live can be tried by anyone, and the others can be tried by their own government.
This is mostly to keep the evidence flowing about Syndicate efforts to subvert justice.
Also because we really, really do not want the Federation developing a reputation for disregarding Orion sovereignty. Or for treating the Union judiciary as a threat rather than as a lawful mechanism for punishing crimes committed by Orions. A lot of Orions will see the Amarki as the Federation's "attack dogs" here, and that's not going to go over any better than if the police let their dogs savage a suspected criminal.
I think that we should have preliminary hearings to differentiate between the criminals whose actions were committed physically in Amarki space, versus the ones who were not. Those might need to be held jointly somehow.
What are our greatest fears here? That the Syndicate criminals will be rescued or judged innocent?
Because I have an overly clever plan...
First hold the trial on Broken chains. Broken chains is both the lowest corruption world and is the shared capital with Alukk (The legislature goes back and forth) and.... if we're really worried about the trial going under the radar we can probably arrange for the highest profile amoung them (Maybe even all the highest ranked arrested so far) to be tried by the Legislature of the Union itself (It holding the sovereign power of the people) It will be extremely high profile and force out into the open the crimes of the Syndicate where their most powerful apologists in power will have to shut up or defend violent child slavers publically in front of the entire galaxy and their constituents.
I know just the sort of person that would propose such a thing and I've already been working on an Omake about just such a character (Previously established by IW) this is just a reorientation of my plans...
It would take someone just a touch mad to propose something like this. And Chief Legislative Officer Maxime "The Incorruptible" Sierre is just a touch mad.
Of course, the Orions were already the greatest starfaring species in this part of the quadrant before the shattered remnants of the Western Roman Empire got their act together enough to even utter the words "hostis humani generis." But then, I suspect that was your point.
"You know, you're right, I suppose it does look like staring down a singularity," muses Nixa after a brief read of surface thoughts. "Executive Justice Yodana, you are under arrest for so many things I'm going to have it printed out on a sheet as long as my leg."
Yeah. Among other things, I suspect Development doesn't really agree with the fundamental premise that the Federation should be trying to recruit everyone in the galaxy in order to be stronger than Cardassia. I think they're more likely to think we should, well, outbuild them.
The idea of building an Excelsior for every Jaldun, and presumably an Ambassador for every post-Jaldun cruiser and a [i}Galaxy[/i] for every Galor... That is very much a Development approach to dealing with Cardassia. NOT an Expansionist approach, which would be more about building up a coalition so strong we could drown them in member world fleets in the event of war. So far we've actually been pursuing a combination of the two.
Well that only makes sense. Play any strategy game with unclaimed space, and you'll see that a balance between building up forces to both contest territory and defend against enemies AND expanding to acquire the resources to build up such forces are quite complimentary.
Like others have pointed out, all the factions in the Federation are essential and complimentary, and I hope that the factions themselves don't lose sight of that.
I mean, one of the problems here is the Amarki have captured numerous people who probably weren't party to that crime. And possibly not to any other crimes we can prove. We know they're all Syndicate but that's really all we've got for sure.
There is little or no way to prove who was actually a part of the raid, because numerous people involved were probably unseen by the prisoners and providing material support via starship. Without a ship's manifest or a cooperating witness do not expect that to be an easy answer.
I'm fine with this overall, but I think it would be better to rearrange ships around so that the Amarkia sector - the sector that actually includes most of the Orion Union, including Alukk and Celos - should get at least some better anti-Syndicate support in that endeavor rather than the Ferasa sector.
So, consider exchanging the 2 Centaur-As in Amarkia sector with the Excelsior in Ferasa sector. That leaves one less ship in the Amarkia sector, but on balance, it's still better for the anti-Syndicate effort due to the presence rolls. One could argue that Ferasa sector is also practically a border zone and could use more ships in total - narratively, stationing one ship each in Ferasa, Merfara, and Risa.
A case could also be made to send the Avandar (the Betazoid-named ship) to the GBZ rather than the Salnas (the Amarki-named ship) if an Excelsior is going to remain in the Amarkia sector, but I don't care much and won't quibble the details.
Also nitpick: you should also label the total defense in Ferasa ("= 16D").
Gabriel Border Zone (starts 2313.Q1) – Requirement Left to Starfleet judgment
Depending on the garrison requirements, I'd prefer to send the newly refit Miranda-A and possibly the Centaur-A out to either CBZ or GBZ since the Apinae sector is a completely internal sector that also isn't that relevant to the anti-Syndicate campaign (about the same relevance as Tellar sector).
hmm, I'm seing two distintly seperate groups here.
The Slavers, and the Slave Buyers.
The slavers and the Syndyciate Leadership, there is no question that they are going on trail with the Amarki. They commuted crimes in Amarki space, and really there is no defending them.
the Slave buyers.. Those I would be open to seeing Trialed by the Orion on a Low corruption world. they are more likely the ones the Orion are concerned with to boot.
I don't think the Orion Union, or for that matter the Federation at large, is prepared to sentence people to life in prison on the evidence of "A Betazoid said so."
I'm fine with this overall, but I think it would be better to rearrange ships around so that the Amarkia sector - the sector that actually includes most of the Orion Union, including Alukk and Celos - should get at least some better anti-Syndicate support in that endeavor rather than the Ferasa sector.
Well, it kind of seems like the Caitian fleet isn't pushing anti-Syndicate operations as hard as the Amarki. Arguably, the division of labor in the Ferasa sector is de facto that the Caitians handle frontier security while the Federation (in the form of one-and-a-half explorers) keeps that side of the Syndicate problem under control. So far, it seems to be working, and I'm reluctant to break up a winning team.
I don't think the Orion Union, or for that matter the Federation at large, is prepared to sentence people to life in prison on the evidence of "A Betazoid said so."
We don't, however, appear to have any law against having a Betazoid deep-read prisoners to find where tangible evidence is hidden. Which is why it's so important that the Amarki caught two Shodars alive here, if we can get the Scrutineers in a room with them before they can commit suicide the impact payout will be massive.
