(Groans). I hate this vote. It's all about lavish extravagence. How many resources are we willing to throw away and weaken ourselves in order to look good and in our own minds and make a show of how committed to exploration we are. All about ego stroking.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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[X][PLAN] Plan Material Support
But ummm, man this is awkward. @Simon_Jester, I've been linking a friend to the thread and she is mighty confused about Eddie Leslie and made me promise to ask-is he based on a single extra who kept having bad things happen to him, or did you just composite events together onto a character, cruelly burdened with all the horrible fates of all redshirts?
But ummm, man this is awkward. @Simon_Jester, I've been linking a friend to the thread and she is mighty confused about Eddie Leslie and made me promise to ask-is he based on a single extra who kept having bad things happen to him, or did you just composite events together onto a character, cruelly burdened with all the horrible fates of all redshirts?
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
...no, it's not that at all
Some people want to send more with the Stargazer to further improve its chances of coming back fine, while others feel it doesn't need as much.
Don't be so melodramatic.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
If politics and optics leading to tangible benefits isn't connecting for you...I confess I'm unsure of what argument to make here, because this is kind of fundamental stuff for understanding human interactions at a level more complex than two people.
Hell, if being the Federation and Federationing as hard as we can isn't appealing to you, I'm not entirely sure why you're hanging about anyways. Insert the refrain about what kind of quest this is not here.
This was really my only thing about Material Support. And you make a convincing argument.
[X][PLAN] Plan Material Support
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Except it isn't.
You may not believe in the entire exploration thing (as you have abundantly made clear), but the Federation clearly does. We get a massive amount of political power for doing this.
+50 just for making the desicion, and then another +10/year. We also lost all militarization, and avoided a 30 pp penalty and 1 militarization point.
Honestly, comparing rewards shows that the council thinks this as important as the Biophage crisis or the Cardassian escapades.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
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Well, are we or aren't we? If we're going to tell the Federation Council that we really can't afford to dispatch an Explorer and possibly several support ships due to needs close to home, how do you expect them to react?
Welcome to politics. Grand gestures get more press than mundane practicalities.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
@Vehrec, Leslie is a real person from TOS, whose name is canon. He was played by Eddie Paskey. He is not a composite. Everything I've mentioned happening to him, happened to him. Or happened to everyone aboard the Enterprise (e.g. the time he got turned into a mineral-salt cuboctahedron).
See, the trick is that Paskey was a very, very regular extra on the show, so he showed up in dozens of episodes, not always doing the same job, usually but not always in a red shirt.
The old guy whose face I've used a few times for Leslie? That is in fact the same guy- Eddie Paskey, only forty years later. He had a cameo in a fan production around, oh... 2005-2010 or so.
Here is his Memory Alpha page:
Leslie
And here is a Youtube tribute:
With two (arguably three) exceptions, the TOS-era exploits of his that I've referenced are canon, or something that could very plausibly have occurred off-screen immediately after or before one of his on-screen appearances, like him dislocating Richard Daystrom's shoulder during The Ultimate Computer, or getting headbutted by a normal-forehead Klingon, which presumably happened while breaking up the barfight during The Trouble With Tribbles.
The exceptions:
1) I attribute to him getting headbutted by a ridged-forehead Klingon at some unspecified time. This presumably happened after the TOS era.
2) The injuries he suffered during the course of Operation: Annihilate!, and his consequent attempts to seek medical leave, are not canon. However, they correspond to (thankfully less serious) injuries that actually happened to the actor who played him and did indeed force Paskey to leave the show in the middle of Season Three.
3) I attribute to him the rough draft of the lyrics from Banned From Argo, notionally drafted during the events of The Naked Time. Which I did only because the song is in real life written by Leslie Fish, and because I needed an excuse for Leslie's career to have stalled for like twenty years.
EDIT: I DID (sort of) make up his first name, in that he doesn't have a first name in the show canon, and there are contradictory names on offer in the Expanded Universe canon. Of the ones available, I picked "Eddie" for the actor who plays him.
Oh, and there are a few things in some of the omakes which are actually references to Star Trek Online's Agents of Yesterday campaign, not TOS proper, but that's not me making anything up
But this is a question that might actually matter to us in-game, so the discussion of it (including your joke) inspired me to actually go back and look up what happens, and it does look like on all three occasions that it was a plot point, they actually did have Voyager go back and retrieve the warp core and refurbish it.
See, the trick is that Paskey was a very, very regular extra on the show, so he showed up in dozens of episodes, not always doing the same job, usually but not always in a red shirt.
The old guy whose face I've used a few times for Leslie? That is in fact the same guy- Eddie Paskey, only forty years later. He had a cameo in a fan production around, oh... 2005-2010 or so.
Here is his Memory Alpha page:
Leslie
And here is a Youtube tribute:
With two (arguably three) exceptions, the TOS-era exploits of his that I've referenced are canon, or something that could very plausibly have occurred off-screen immediately after or before one of his on-screen appearances, like him dislocating Richard Daystrom's shoulder during The Ultimate Computer, or getting headbutted by a normal-forehead Klingon, which presumably happened while breaking up the barfight during The Trouble With Tribbles.
The exceptions:
1) I attribute to him getting headbutted by a ridged-forehead Klingon at some unspecified time. This presumably happened after the TOS era.
2) The injuries he suffered during the course of Operation: Annihilate!, and his consequent attempts to seek medical leave, are not canon. However, they correspond to (thankfully less serious) injuries that actually happened to the actor who played him and did indeed force Paskey to leave the show in the middle of Season Three.
3) I attribute to him the rough draft of the lyrics from Banned From Argo, notionally drafted during the events of The Naked Time. Which I did only because the song is in real life written by Leslie Fish, and because I needed an excuse for Leslie's career to have stalled for like twenty years.
EDIT: I DID (sort of) make up his first name, in that he doesn't have a first name in the show canon, and there are contradictory names on offer in the Expanded Universe canon. Of the ones available, I picked "Eddie" for the actor who plays him.
Oh, and there are a few things in some of the omakes which are actually references to Star Trek Online's Agents of Yesterday campaign, not TOS proper, but that's not me making anything up
It's not that I don't get the joke. I also got the joke based on Janeway's shuttle-spamming powers.
But this is a question that might actually matter to us in-game, so the discussion of it (including your joke) inspired me to actually go back and look up what happens, and it does look like on all three occasions that it was a plot point, they actually did have Voyager go back and retrieve the warp core and refurbish it.
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Frankly, given the relatively slow travel speed, we could probably schedule relief ships to meet the Kadeshi periodically during at least the first quarter of their trip. If sending extra parts is something we want to do, dispatching an Excelsior to rendezvous with them roughly five years down the line with additional warp cores should be much easier on our production infrastructure than slotting in a rush order.
It could even be Odyssey.
It could even be Odyssey.
Note all this extra stuff is costing political will, not adding it.
[X] plan Kitchen Sink
[x][CREW] Send +2 Extra Crew of each
[X][SHIP] Send along an Engineering ship (-5pp)
(this will improve the ability of the Kadesh fleet to run repairs, being a much larger such vessel than anything they own)
[X][SHIP] Send along a Hospital ship (-10pp)
(this will improve the ability of the Kadesh fleet to avoid losses on their journey)
[X][SHIP] Send along a Colony ship (-10pp)
(this will allow a colony to be formed alongside the distant Kadeshi homeworld, and support the mission in other ways)
[X][SHIP] Send along an Intel runabout (-5pp)
(this will allow a little more independence from Kadesh
[X][ASSETS] Send along +20br and +20sr with the Pride of Kadesh (-20br, -20sr)
(to allow for future possible repairs)
[X][ASSETS] Send along a team of FBS journalists (-5pp)
(chance of increased pp gains, chance of increases pp losses if ship is lost)
I'd also like the extra warp core if we manage to send a five hull flotilla to ensure all bases are covered.
At any rate I would really think that sending all four support ships is a thing to do. Especially that with a colony near the Kadesh we can then slowly get them to affiliate and then Member world and have a secondary expansion vector that increases our spread of the Federation.
[x][CREW] Send +2 Extra Crew of each
[X][SHIP] Send along an Engineering ship (-5pp)
(this will improve the ability of the Kadesh fleet to run repairs, being a much larger such vessel than anything they own)
[X][SHIP] Send along a Hospital ship (-10pp)
(this will improve the ability of the Kadesh fleet to avoid losses on their journey)
[X][SHIP] Send along a Colony ship (-10pp)
(this will allow a colony to be formed alongside the distant Kadeshi homeworld, and support the mission in other ways)
[X][SHIP] Send along an Intel runabout (-5pp)
(this will allow a little more independence from Kadesh
[X][ASSETS] Send along +20br and +20sr with the Pride of Kadesh (-20br, -20sr)
(to allow for future possible repairs)
[X][ASSETS] Send along a team of FBS journalists (-5pp)
(chance of increased pp gains, chance of increases pp losses if ship is lost)
I'd also like the extra warp core if we manage to send a five hull flotilla to ensure all bases are covered.
At any rate I would really think that sending all four support ships is a thing to do. Especially that with a colony near the Kadesh we can then slowly get them to affiliate and then Member world and have a secondary expansion vector that increases our spread of the Federation.
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
[X][PLAN] Plan Material Support + Journalists
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Vote is by plan: you need a plan header.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
Is this an affirmation or a comment? Signal boosting?
There's just something about a post that only has a single quote that's amusingly mysterious.
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Gadjo
Doka
[X][PLAN] Plan Material Support + Journalists
[X][CREW] Send +2 Extra Crew of each type
[X][SHIP] Send along an Engineering ship (-5pp)
[X][SHIP] Send along a Hospital ship (-10pp)
[X][ASSETS] Send along +20br and +20sr with the Pride of Kadesh (-20br, -20sr)
[X][ASSETS] Send along a team of FBS journalists (-5pp)
[X][CREW] Send +2 Extra Crew of each type
[X][SHIP] Send along an Engineering ship (-5pp)
[X][SHIP] Send along a Hospital ship (-10pp)
[X][ASSETS] Send along +20br and +20sr with the Pride of Kadesh (-20br, -20sr)
[X][ASSETS] Send along a team of FBS journalists (-5pp)
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I don't believe that's entirely fair to @Briefvoice, given that said user has been essentially writing Starfleet's deployment plans singlehandedly. We're punching holes in a house of cards that Briefvoice helped build; it would be more than human to not be upset, especially given how damned useful Explorer-weight vessels are for us with regard to honoring Starfleet's myriad obligations.
This is a valid point; everything we send out is something that won't be available back home. While I think detaching additional support assets is a good investment to make, there's no denying the price tag.
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
One temporary reduction in the Explorer Corps since the Miracht hasn't been replaced yet, which doesn't require any reassigning of ships, and will be filled when the next EC Excelsior is finished next year.
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[X][PLAN] Plan Material Support + Journalists
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But if we still had the Miract we wouldn't be getting an Explorer Corps ship next year and BV would have another Excelsior to play with for regular non-Explorer deployments, which are the only ones that count for defense. I've been thinking about this myself and I think that after this, we temporarily freeze expansion of the Explorers for a bit. The state of the art has changed-no sense in making them use Excelsiors when we'll be trying to shove as many as possible into refits, and the Ambasador-types in the Ship-design thread are looking like real beasts in the Crew requirements department-though that is almost certainly going to change as I can't see us actually having to pay 10E/10T per Ambassador. Taking a five-year or whatever moratorium on adding new ships to our Explorer fleet might be in order just to catch our breath.
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You know, it might help if I actually cast a vote.
[X] Plan Kitchen Sink
@Simon_Jester, it looks like the space monsters nibbled on your latest post.
[X] Plan Kitchen Sink
True, as far as it goes, but how much of our projected budget for the next year is expected to come from Stargazer on her Five Year Mission? I do recall seeing some number-crunching on the subject some number of pages back...
@Simon_Jester, it looks like the space monsters nibbled on your latest post.
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
I have no idea, and trying to plan for the randomness of EC events when we won't ever know the full details of what Oneiros rolls is silly.
You're kind of missing how many years it will be until Ambassador designs are crewing. We're talking over a decade from today, perhaps as much as 15 years. I see no reason to slow EC Excelsior deployment
- Location
- Sweden
[X] plan Kitchen Sink
- Location
- USA
Yes but some of the options like engineering and hospital ships are there to help safeguard the investment. More so since we are gaining a 10 pp a year and may get more from events along the way. In addition it is another case of the Federation stepping up and helping our affiliates. Also @Simon_Jester is costing us 15 pp and 20 SR and BR and some EC crew in addition to one ship on long range patrol. If that means the Kadeshi are successful then I think that is a worthwhile investment.