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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Nothing is beyond redemption.

But

That doesn't mean that they won't have a very tall mountain to climb to claim to be one of the angels again.
 
Forgothrax said:
I just realized how sickening their own name for themselves is.

"Actual Intelligence."

Chew on that for a minute.
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It really is, it's the biggest sign that their rhetoric is bullshit to convince themselves that they're making the decisions they make because it's the best choice, and not because they're traumatized schoolgirls who are terrified of what happens if they lose control of the society they've rebuilt.
 
Jenny said:
There was Michel Thuir. The story was twisted enough that Krobik had trouble following it. Thuir, who was one of Starfleet's best, steadfast and dutiful, fell in love with his counterpart while both were conducting diplomacy in the border states? That love blossoming under adversity after they were kidnapped by Bolian -- Bolian -- pirates-slash-free traders-slash-repo men who had somehow slipped under the OSA's radar and made off with a weather regulator itself stolen by the corporations. Thuir and Janner turning the pirate crew against each other, taking over the ship, and returning to the Harmony. But then, Thuir and his staff electing to stay in the Harmony. All of them. Not one of them missed their families? All of them similarly dissatisfied? Either something was much more rotten in the state of the Federation than anyone reali
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NGL a bunch of muscles in my neck tensed up here.

Deep Breath

Stesk would be upset at what I want to do to these things.
 
They are making stealth corvettes, why? What would be their target? Every planetary leader in the Federation? To break us up?
 
I am torn between the desire for war to break out and the Federation to kick their butts and the knowledge that thousands of innocent crewmembers on their ships will pay the price for the Singer's horribleness.
 
ReaderJohn said:
They are making stealth corvettes, why? What would be their target? Every planetary leader in the Federation? To break us up?
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Even ignoring the possibility of attempting decapitation strikes, stealth ships would be extremely useful in a war, being very well suited to commerce raiding, long-range scouting, and inserting commando teams.
 
Captainwolf said:
Even ignoring the possibility of attempting decapitation strikes, stealth ships would be extremely useful in a war, being very well suited to commerce raiding, long-range scouting, and inserting commando teams.
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I don't think the Harmony would be able to sustain that. It is relatively easy for the UFP to move its commerce beyond the reach of the Harmony.

Like, there is just so much space between Harmony and the Core, where the major industry lies that commerce raiding doesn't really seem feasible in the opening stage of the war.
 
MrHobbit said:
I don't think the Harmony would be able to sustain that. It is relatively easy for the UFP to move its commerce beyond the reach of the Harmony.

Like, there is just so much space between Harmony and the Core, where the major industry lies that commerce raiding doesn't really seem feasible in the opening stage of the war.
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No matter what, a war with Harmony would require a large number of cargo ships to move supplies to the front line, and that ignores the commerce for polities on the border. Even if the Federation adopts convoy tactics, that still means a fair number of Federation ships will be tied up escorting convoys, instead of being on the front lines. It also means that the Federation would need to keep quite a few ships defending colonies and such near the border, to prevent stealth corvettes from raiding said colonies. Each stealth ship could potentially tie up much more than its tonnage in escorts and defending ships.

And of course, the stealth ships would be quite useful for Black Ops.
 
Alectai said:
...God, these sanctimonious pricks.

It's genuinely amazing how you've managed to make them both pitiable but arguably more monstrous than a lot of other Star Trek villains. At least the Borg don't have the delusion that they're doing what's best for you when they assimilate you.
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I mean, they kind of do.

But they've lost enough of their social skills that when they try to lecture you on it, it sounds offputting and uncanny-valleyful and STEMlordy.

The Harmony thinks that because they have the power to do it, and because they can make it pretty, that it is inherently good and just.

Alliterate said:
Damn them all to hell.

Boxing is too good for them.

It's not enough that they get locked away- even for eternity- indignant and certain of their righteousness, feeling ill-used in their narcissistic rage.
No, that's letting them off far too easily.

I want Tallael to understand the unpardonable unspeakable abominable nature of the crime they just committed.

This one, single act can never be forgiven, and the rest of the galaxy is justified in regarding the Singers with horror. This act of slow murder of self is monstrous.

I want them to understand that, to face their victims' pain, and know that this is wrong and it is unforgivable.
I'd tell them about restorative justice, and explain that they can never make up for their crimes.
It's impossible, as the victims are all gone- even the still living ones.

So, Tallael's one, single act here. Unforgivable. Abominable. Damning.

This act, one they've repeated thousands, millions, billions of times, to millions of sentients.

Every single act, abominable.

Every time, every single murder of the self, to support a system that engenders more of this. Unforgivable.

Billions of acts of individual horror.


Once they understand this, once they know- then they can be locked away.
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I'd like that.

Forgothrax said:
I just realized how sickening their own name for themselves is.

"Actual Intelligence."

Chew on that for a minute.
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Oh, yeah. Noticed that before the hiatus. This isn't the first time we've seen the term.

The Singers have long since concluded that because they have the ability to edit your thoughts, you aren't really thinking, just doing a sort of charmingly cute and naive parody of thinking.

Elero said:
I am torn between the desire for war to break out and the Federation to kick their butts and the knowledge that thousands of innocent crewmembers on their ships will pay the price for the Singer's horribleness.
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They've already paid the price. Anyone who does something as important and sensitive as "actually serve in the fleet" in the Harmony has been... curated... to such an extent that the person they would have been without Singer interference is almost certainly dead. They may not be a puppet, but they're the mental equivalent of a bonsai tree- beautiful, functional in the role intended by their makers, and utterly artificial.
 
MrHobbit said:
Put a space between the period and they.


This is honestly a fascinating view. I actually could see those options happening.

Of course with plenty of vetting.
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Nah. That prediction is being made by someone who somehow thinks that--
Jenny said:
[...] forces no one can really understand only encouraged them to stay in those bubbles. And I don't mean, forces like us, Intelligences. No, I mean forces in cyberspace, almost like rocks in a stream, diverting the flow organically but mindlessly. Algorithms, content boosts, weighted search results. Things with no more intelligence than slime mold controlling what people see and thus what they think. Stray in your community and hate all others. Revel in groupthink. Suborn your will to something greater.
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--the very forces that the Padani have invested so much into understanding are beyond the comprehension of 'mere mortals'. Tallael has about as much predictive power with Padani politics as Aristotle would have on quantum gravity. The Singers are utterly unqualified for actually dealing with people, understanding them and predicting them, because whenever things start to not go their way, they're able to just make it not be so.
Jenny said:
"But have you considered they're doing their work the old fashioned way?" Krobik leaned forward, "I don't think I'll ever become a Singer. Not right now. Because I'd disagree too much with it. But that wasn't my role, was it? I was a blunt instrument for you Singers, finding corruption in the places you needed me to. So I'm out. Instead you'd find people who already essentially believe the same things you do. Or if not, you'll be the whisper on the wind you mentioned, putting them on the path to be amenable, right?"

Tallael was silent. She'd paced into the corner of the room and now stared at Krobik.

"Maybe that was the plan for me. Maybe you need someone more amenable. But enough whispers, enough paths nudged, who knows where you could end up. And if you don't, the Singers just pass you over. Passive selection. And if you're amenable, one way or another, I bet they just condition you the old fashioned way. Propaganda. Self-justifying rhetoric. It's just like how the Tauni elites only come from three universities, which produces one convergent mode of thought. And those who are outside that are quietly pushed aside. Or how in the OSA to be anyone important you have to be either a Beya champion or an industrial designer." Krobik laughed, "That's all you and your friends have done Tallael! You won an intellectual beya-war. Face it, Tallael. You're programmed. Just in a different way."

She stared at him from her corner. "This has been a fruitless conversation, Krobik."

"And yet you are having it. Are you having some doubts?"

"No."

"I understand. This is like me talking my pet through a tough decision. Except my pet doesn't have the gall to question it." Krobik dropped his head down, "I'm sorry, Tallael. Take it from an old journalist. Your story doesn't add up. And I think you're starting to realize that."

"It's not true." Tallael said. "It's time for me to go."

"Please, consider what—"
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This right here? Yes, it's absolutely despicable, and an abuse of power held over someone. But frankly? This is a bald admission of incompetence, of the pure weakness of one's philosophical grounding. This is a Singer interacting with one of their own people, whom they 'should' know better than they know themselves, utterly failing to predict a turn of events that most of us probably saw coming right away. And then, with all that "Actual Intelligence", the only recourse Tallael had was an absolute retreat.

For all the power that their abuses give them, they are utter incompetents at actually dealing with people, and that is the root of societies falling apart, the forest that the Singers missed for the trees.
 
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Jenny said:
Tallael sniffed, "This is where things become a little complex. I, and all other Singers -- we see the stars past the horizon. The larger picture. There are six or seven people you could have fallen in love with. All assessed as compatible, mutually-supporting, developing you further. We just helped steer you to the most ideal one."
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I can't believe Singers took their time to play out a harem romcom manga.
Jenny said:
As for your next question, why we allow the omission of our existence — well, better we remain invisible." Tallael sounded like she was reciting for class, "If we were visible, our people would come to hate us. They'd want to decide how we're chosen. But they would still be manipulated. Left with only a small window into reality." She tapped the floor with a talon, "Only Singers can choose Singers. And our work must remain invisible and uncredited. It is the only way to preserve sentience from itself."
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You guys have direct control over society and understanding of it better than any individual, one would think it would be easy for you to openly integrate yourself with the public. Hell, make a religion (or religious philosophy) out of that - the thought of benevolent beings who know you past your self-doubts and can advise and guide you to be the best you can be actually sounds rather appealing and open to worship. But no, that would mean marginally more risks, less freedom to run "personal narratives" and perhaps some release valves for people who can't fit at all, the traumatized originators of the system can't have that.

I don't really place the self and its freedom from influence on a pedestal - we are constantly affected by things that come from without, be it parents, teachers, friends, idols, propaganda, society and its values or even random circumstances. Saying that one is a miracle because it's accidental, while other is an abomination because it's intelligent design doesn't make much sense to me. But all this cloak and dagger with wiping out any evidence of mistakes in addition to "personal narratives" and aggressive proselytizing make this much less "expanded intelligences help everyone else do good and live in Harmony " and much more "immortalized trauma propagates more trauma and desire to control". "Actual intelligence" is a pretentious as hell name, too, though it hits my SoD a bit, so I can't really blame them for it.

The whole "But what if you were manipulated?" thing at the end rings a bit empty though, in my opinion. I guess it shows how brittle the Singer system really is, when the most basic "you are not actually a higher being different from us" argument can make them doubt.
 
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