Ships the VAdms assign to the FDS don't respond to events. They are still physically in theatre though.
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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Maelore
Totaly not a Romulan
- Location
- Fairfax, VA
[X] Briefvoice Short Central Mostly
-[X][CORE] Assign less than VAdm Crogan's requests.
--[X] 8 Explorers, 11 Cruisers (including 1 diplomatic cruiser), 34 frigates (including 10 Mirandas)
-[X][TAIL] Assign less than Adm sh'Nathriq's requests.
--[X] 2 Explorers, 7 Cruisers, 15 frigates (at least 6 Keplers)
-[X][SPIN] Assign less than VAdm ch'Zelil's requests.
--[X] 3 Explorers, 5 Cruisers, 19 Frigates.
-[X][CENT] Assign less than VAdm Pragur's requests.
--[X] 4 Explorers, 6 Cruisers, 14 Frigates.
-[X][FDS] OSA: Disunified Homeworld; Shanpurr: Interfering with Pre-Warp Societies; Morshadd Commune: The Revolution Does Not Negotiate With Tyrants; Dawiar: Sour about Caitian Conflict; Arcadian Empire: Slavery; Bajoran Diaspora: Caste System
[X][TADM] Vice Admiral Rachel Ainsworth
I like this because I think we have been holding off on resolving the Bajoran issues for long enough. This at least starts the ball rolling.
-[X][CORE] Assign less than VAdm Crogan's requests.
--[X] 8 Explorers, 11 Cruisers (including 1 diplomatic cruiser), 34 frigates (including 10 Mirandas)
-[X][TAIL] Assign less than Adm sh'Nathriq's requests.
--[X] 2 Explorers, 7 Cruisers, 15 frigates (at least 6 Keplers)
-[X][SPIN] Assign less than VAdm ch'Zelil's requests.
--[X] 3 Explorers, 5 Cruisers, 19 Frigates.
-[X][CENT] Assign less than VAdm Pragur's requests.
--[X] 4 Explorers, 6 Cruisers, 14 Frigates.
-[X][FDS] OSA: Disunified Homeworld; Shanpurr: Interfering with Pre-Warp Societies; Morshadd Commune: The Revolution Does Not Negotiate With Tyrants; Dawiar: Sour about Caitian Conflict; Arcadian Empire: Slavery; Bajoran Diaspora: Caste System
[X][TADM] Vice Admiral Rachel Ainsworth
I like this because I think we have been holding off on resolving the Bajoran issues for long enough. This at least starts the ball rolling.
They could assign a single Kepler to a single tag.
I feel we have to keep on the Shanpurr for moral reasons. That one isn't about affiliation or alliance... it's about preventing a looming disaster that is harming entire worlds of pre-warp sapients. We can't really justify putting it off in favor of something else. Even if it means we end up blowing an Event or two due to reduced deployment, it would be worth the cost.
Crogan knows how the game is played. We think his theater will get about 33% of the Events, so we give him 33% of the response capability.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
Where is the rest of the map? and when did the Trill and Misek become part of the Federation? Isn't it a bit presumptuous to color that territory blue when there are non Federation locations in that area?
The Misek and Trill are colored light blue to indicate they are affiliated with the UFP but not yet members.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
[X] Coreward Focus
-[X][CORE] Assign VAdm Crogan's requests. 8 explorers, 13 cruisers (1 diplomatic cruiser), 35 frigates (10 Mirandas)
-[X][TAIL] Assign less than Adm sh'Nathriq's requests.
--[X] Write-in 2 Explorers, 4 Cruisers, 12 Frigates (8 Keplers).
-[X][SPIN] Assign less than VAdm ch'Zelil's requests.
--[X] Write-in 3 Explorers, 4 Cruisers (1 diplomatic cruiser), 20 Frigates.
-[X][CENT] Assign less than VAdm Pragur's requests.
--[X] Write-in 4 Explorers, 6 Cruisers (1 diplomatic cruiser), 15 Frigates.
-[X][FDS] Choose up to six FDS tags to work on. For every tag selected, 6P worth of ships from the appropriate theater will be assigned to FDS duty in 2326.Q1, and the tag will gain 1 point of progress at the end of 2326. You may choose less than six tags.
--[X] OSA: Disunified Homeworld
--[X] Morshadd Commune: The Revolution Does Not Negotiate With Tyrants
--[X] Arcadian Empire: Slavery
--[X] Felis: Weak Central Government
--[X] Shanpurr: Interfering With Pre-Warp Societies
--[X] Dawiar: Sour About Caitian Conflict
This plan puts more ships into Coreward, but also has four relevant FDS tags drawing ships away. The idea being to try to solidify our most dangerous front.
-[X][CORE] Assign VAdm Crogan's requests. 8 explorers, 13 cruisers (1 diplomatic cruiser), 35 frigates (10 Mirandas)
-[X][TAIL] Assign less than Adm sh'Nathriq's requests.
--[X] Write-in 2 Explorers, 4 Cruisers, 12 Frigates (8 Keplers).
-[X][SPIN] Assign less than VAdm ch'Zelil's requests.
--[X] Write-in 3 Explorers, 4 Cruisers (1 diplomatic cruiser), 20 Frigates.
-[X][CENT] Assign less than VAdm Pragur's requests.
--[X] Write-in 4 Explorers, 6 Cruisers (1 diplomatic cruiser), 15 Frigates.
-[X][FDS] Choose up to six FDS tags to work on. For every tag selected, 6P worth of ships from the appropriate theater will be assigned to FDS duty in 2326.Q1, and the tag will gain 1 point of progress at the end of 2326. You may choose less than six tags.
--[X] OSA: Disunified Homeworld
--[X] Morshadd Commune: The Revolution Does Not Negotiate With Tyrants
--[X] Arcadian Empire: Slavery
--[X] Felis: Weak Central Government
--[X] Shanpurr: Interfering With Pre-Warp Societies
--[X] Dawiar: Sour About Caitian Conflict
This plan puts more ships into Coreward, but also has four relevant FDS tags drawing ships away. The idea being to try to solidify our most dangerous front.
- Location
- United States
Most of the plans are calling for 5+ tags to be worked on.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
And waste 9S. Keplers are wasted on FDS duty.
Shanpurr of all tags? There are slavery tags and stopping well intentioned uplifting of pre warps is your priority? Alright then.
[] Briefvoice Enerael Variant + Shanpurr Tag
-[][CORE] Assign less than VAdm Crogan's requests.
--[] 8 Explorers, 9 Cruisers + 3 Diplomatic Cruisers, 32 frigates (including 10 Mirandas)
-[][TAIL] Assign less than Adm sh'Nathriq's requests.
--[] 2 Explorers, 6 Cruisers, 15 frigates (at least 6 Keplers)
-[][SPIN] Assign less than VAdm ch'Zelil's requests.
--[] 3 Explorers, 5 Cruisers, 19 Frigates.
-[][CENT] Assign less than VAdm Pragur's requests.
--[] 4 Explorers, 6 Cruisers, 13 Frigates + 3 expected to be seconded to FDS.
-[][FDS] Choose up to six FDS tags to work on. For every tag selected, 6P worth of ships from the appropriate theater will be assigned to FDS duty in 2326.Q1, and the tag will gain 1 point of progress at the end of 2326. You may choose less than six tags.
--[] Coreward Theater
---[] OSA - [Disunified Homeworld [2/3 (FDS)] (blocks membership)
---[] Morshadd Commune - [The Revolution Does Not Negotiate With Tyrants: 0/3 FDS] (linked tag) (blocks affiliation)
---[] Arcadian Empire - [Slavery: 0/4 (FDS)] (blocks affiliation)
--[] Spinward Theater
---[] Shanpurr- [Interfering with Pre-Warp Societies: 1/9 (FDS)] (blocks membership)
--[] Central Theater
---[] Misek - [Jumping In Proboscis First 0/2 (FDS)] (blocks alliance)
---[] Dawiar - [Sour about Caitian Conflict: [0/1] (FDS)] (blocks affiliation)
Note, the Shanpurr tag blocks membership and there is still a 300 point tag preventing an alliance that we haven't even started on yet, and it makes Spinward Theater about two frigates weaker.
I second this.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
You mean the well-intentioned uplifting that has already resulted in an least one species being rendered extinct, because the Shanpurr do not get xenopsychology and simultaensouly are strongly divergent from the seeming "precursor standard" psychological range?
Yes, preventing the annihilation of more pre-warp peoples is a priority.
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Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
And eradicating slavery doesn't help that? Shanpurr have learned from it, and ISC will be beside them watching over their shouůders while they uplift. Yes, it is a priority, but putting it above, say, convincing the Ittick'Ka (and their large empire with several vasal/enslaved species) to give up on slavery seems like its worth hell of a lot more to me, morally speaking.
This really smacks me of the terrible kind of Prime Directive interpretations. Uplifting is risky and dangerous if possibly extremely beneficial morally speaking, and UFP errs on the side of not (for good reasons), but considering it worse than empire wide slavery for example? Seriously?
Keplers are the second most common type of ship available, making up ~35% of all of our frigates. Pulling one away to do FDS is only a problem if a theatre is unlucky enough to be swamped with more events than it has ships (which screws that theatre over anyway).
If you truly believe that sending a single readily available ship to work on a tag is a waste if it's capable of doing other things, why are you voting to work on tags beyond what Patroller-A's can cover?
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Have they? Last I checked, they were talking about cloning the Wokor (probably make them more Shan while they're at it, because why not) from any genetic samples they could find and have them recolonize their planet.
That's not learning from their mistakes.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
They absolutely have not learned from it. They buried all information on it, let the responsible administrator fly off into the depths of space never to be seen again, and kept right on going.
idontknowhowtoexplaintoyouthatgenocideiswrong.png
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- Location
- Aotearoa
If there are three tags in a Theatre- like the OSA, Arcadian Empire, and Commune- then assign that Command three Diplomatic Cruisers.
That will supply the P18 required to cover the three missions with two ships.
That will supply the P18 required to cover the three missions with two ships.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Because I expect the admiral in charge to send three Centaur-Bs or green Stella-As to address those two tags. Keplers are common for a very good reason, they are powerful. +1S -1P over Excelsior-A. They are not old frigates, they are cheap heavy cruisers that can't fight.
And while I do not intent to vote for it, I am not all that against tackling a sixth tag. And if people were arguing for tackling Ittick'Ka slavery I would shrug, make a variant plan, and consider voting for it or approval voting.
What confuses me are the priorities in choosing the Shanpurr tag.
Making them more Shanpurr is an assumption, not fact. It's trying to fix their mistake as much as they can, which is commendable and I don't see how it says anything about them having not learned.
It's more complex than that, they didn't even know that the species went extinct. They do now, and are, to put it lightly, horrified by it.
You know, before we discovered that dead world of a species whose uplift the Shanpurr butchered so horribly they ended up extinct, you might have had a case.
But we did. And I'm afraid this is a "one strike and you're out" situation. I'm not going to assume that they learned better from their first extinction and now won't do it again, partially because rather than learning from it they've covered it up and done everything they can to not talk about it. They had their chance and they proved they can't be trusted. They didn't learn a damn thing.
For the record, I agree that Ittick-ka slavery also needs addressing, but given the extremely sensitive situation we left them in, giving them some "cool down time" to resolve their brewing civil war might be the better choice than showing up at their door with the pro-emancipation literature we spent the last year swearing up and down we weren't supplying.
Plan Roundup. Everyone is working on the OSA, Commune, and Dawiar:
[ ] Plan Coreward Diplomacy
Fills Coreward, shorts everything else evenly, FDS works on Arcadian Slavery, Misek, Felis, (not Shanpurr)
[ ] Raw Draft 1
Fills Coreward, shorts everything else evenly, FDS works on Shanpurr, Misek, Felis, (not Arcadian Slavery)
[ ] Coreward Focus
Fills Coreward, shorts everything else evenly, FDS works on Arcadian Slavery, Shanpurr, Felis, (not Misek)
[ ] Briefvoice Short Central Mostly
Shorts everything semi-evenly, FDS works on Arcadian Slavery, Shanpurr, Bajorans, (not Misek, Felis)
[ ] Briefvoice Enerael Variant
Shorts everything semi-evenly, FDS works on Arcadian Slavery, Misek, (not Shanpurr, Felis, 5/6)
[ ] Briefvoice Enerael Variant + Shanpurr Tag
As above but adds Shanpurr.
Please vote, not enough votes.
[ ] Plan Coreward Diplomacy
Fills Coreward, shorts everything else evenly, FDS works on Arcadian Slavery, Misek, Felis, (not Shanpurr)
[ ] Raw Draft 1
Fills Coreward, shorts everything else evenly, FDS works on Shanpurr, Misek, Felis, (not Arcadian Slavery)
[ ] Coreward Focus
Fills Coreward, shorts everything else evenly, FDS works on Arcadian Slavery, Shanpurr, Felis, (not Misek)
[ ] Briefvoice Short Central Mostly
Shorts everything semi-evenly, FDS works on Arcadian Slavery, Shanpurr, Bajorans, (not Misek, Felis)
[ ] Briefvoice Enerael Variant
Shorts everything semi-evenly, FDS works on Arcadian Slavery, Misek, (not Shanpurr, Felis, 5/6)
[ ] Briefvoice Enerael Variant + Shanpurr Tag
As above but adds Shanpurr.
Please vote, not enough votes.
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Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
They didn't even know about the extinction. And I fully expect them to do everything in their power to not repeat this, because they are well intentioned and not complete idiots. Not to mention that ISC, their neighbors and allies, and fellow followers of the uplifting way would have something to say about that.
Good argument for letting the Ittick'ka cool down though, I can agree with that.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
You think they're just going to stick them in Iron Age societies and leave them be?
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Literally the first thing they did was ask us to cover it up for them. Furthermore, the ISC's uplift plans are entirely theoretical and have never been actually tested.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
The Shanpurr quite expressly did not learn from it, and the ISC lacks the well-versed xenopsychology to be able to get them to actually learn from it.
The GMs have outright stated that in this quest uplifting is a guaranteed mass-casualty process as well as psychologically damaging to the population, with even the best approaches being described as "Space Iraq". It is written in the underlying physics of this universe that the Prime Directive is defined as the most moral outcome, and that anything else will be at best a well intentioned tragedy. Because of that, we know that every year the Shanpurr especially are permitted to continue going about as they have been, it's rolling the dice on the extermination of an entire people.
EDIT: And this isn't something any amount of argument or complaining or clever insights can work around -- it is a foundational principle of the quest, and all you'll be doing is dragging down the discussion here into irrelevant salt. So don't.
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Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Not quite what I meant but I will concede this point, though they can't really not make them more shanpurr than the originals (of which time, before or after the uplift started?) even if they wanted to due to the lost culture.
I do not remember the first part or the particulars, though not wanting such a thing to go public seems reasonable to me (species wide trauma ahoy). But point. I'm not saying that they won't fuck up another uplift, just that I am confident that extinction like that is off the cards. Such a thing is not that hard to prevent, killing a species is hard (what were they thinking with those nanites, seriously).
Expressly? And while I do not expect the Shanpurr to take away "no uplifts" from this tragedy, I find it hard to believe that they could see what they have caused here and not learn/been traumatised by it.
I do not recall seeing such statement from the GMs.
But this discussion is getting nowhere it seems. I agree that giving the Ittick'ka time to cool down makes sense and thus tackling the Shanpurr tag is a higher priority right now, let's end it here?
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AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It was never an Ex Cathedra statement, but before I was a QM and in other threads I have been aggressively against the possiblity of uplifts being moral or successful.
Again, that is NOT an Ex cathedra ststement but information on my posting history. Also the quest itself is under collective leadership, so.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Briefvoice
Ugh. Now's not the time to re-litigate the past: IIRC last vote we only got to send out missions to three FDS tags, and one of them was the Shanpurr. That's why it's at 1/9 right now, and I don't see the point of not comitting to it. Also bad is not using our max of 6 tags, since it's easy to fall behind in the diplo scene if we don't apply as many resources there as we can. (And the FDS tags were created for stuff that normal events can't often or ever deal with.) So to suggest both of these things together? Yeah...
Ugh. Now's not the time to re-litigate the past: IIRC last vote we only got to send out missions to three FDS tags, and one of them was the Shanpurr. That's why it's at 1/9 right now, and I don't see the point of not comitting to it. Also bad is not using our max of 6 tags, since it's easy to fall behind in the diplo scene if we don't apply as many resources there as we can. (And the FDS tags were created for stuff that normal events can't often or ever deal with.) So to suggest both of these things together? Yeah...
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KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[X] Briefvoice Short Central Mostly
[X][TADM] Vice Admiral Rachel Ainsworth
[X][TADM] Vice Admiral Rachel Ainsworth