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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Briefvoice said:
If solving a problem isn't a story then what was the point? It was basically either a pointless problem in the first place or we're missing our chance of getting a story out of it later.
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As I alluded to, the big issue is that we've been set up with a very large number of problems that could be narratively compelling in their own right, more than can feasibly be resolved without writing very large numbers of task force logs or equivalents of same.

Because writing story hooks is easier than writing stories.

One way to address would be to start having the actions of our regular fleet ships more impactful on the tags of our neighbors, thus tying together the captain's logs and task force progress. This is sort of like how we actually got a lot of our early progress integrating many of our current members into the Federation through Explorer Corps and in many cases regular fleet events back in the late '00s and early '10s.
 
Simon_Jester said:
As I alluded to, the big issue is that we've been set up with a very large number of problems that could be narratively compelling in their own right, more than can feasibly be resolved without writing very large numbers of task force logs or equivalents of same.

Because writing story hooks is easier than writing stories.
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When we started discussing the issues with Task Forces in this thread, SWB expressed the opinion that many of the things we were thinking of as "problems to be solved" in fact didn't really need solving and could have been just left as interesting "stuff happening in the galaxy".

If a problem story hook doesn't get picked up, maybe we don't need to address it at all. Just have it fade away on its own.
 
Briefvoice said:
When we started discussing the issues with Task Forces in this thread, SWB expressed the opinion that many of the things we were thinking of as "problems to be solved" in fact didn't really need solving and could have been just left as interesting "stuff happening in the galaxy".
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Well, given how that interfaces with the diplomacy system, that perspective works fine if the essential premise is that the Federation is basically done expanding. I'm... not entirely sure I like that proposition.

Plus, it's hard to portray "stuff happening in the galaxy" that involves, for instance, widespread death and suffering, without an implicit aroma of "YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT THIS."

If the Hishmeri go Atilla the Space Hun on several harmless intelligent species out on the rimward frontier, we're not going to feel comfortable shrugging and go "meh, not our problem." And if the QMs transition the rule set to an environment where we are discouraged from (or outright incapable of) addressing that, it's not going to go over well with some of us.

So I'm hoping we're not just expected to casually transition to "noninterventionist even when appalling bullshit is happening" Federation, because I don't think most of us actually want to roleplay that.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Well, given how that interfaces with the diplomacy system, that perspective works fine if the essential premise is that the Federation is basically done expanding. I'm... not entirely sure I like that proposition.

Plus, it's hard to portray "stuff happening in the galaxy" that involves, for instance, widespread death and suffering, without an implicit aroma of "YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT THIS."

If the Hishmeri go Atilla the Space Hun on several harmless intelligent species out on the rimward frontier, we're not going to feel comfortable shrugging and go "meh, not our problem." And if the QMs transition the rule set to an environment where we are discouraged from (or outright incapable of) addressing that, it's not going to go over well with some of us.

So I'm hoping we're not just expected to casually transition to "noninterventionist even when appalling bullshit is happening" Federation, because I don't think most of us actually want to roleplay that.
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I cannot recall any instance of that being portrayed as morally correct when the Prime Directive isn't overruling people wanting to interfere, which someone else already interfering has never NOT negated.
 
ilbgar123 said:
I cannot recall any instance of that being portrayed as morally correct when the Prime Directive isn't overruling people wanting to interfere, which someone else already interfering has never NOT negated.
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I'm not just talking about interference with prewarp societies, I'm talking about the Hishmeri just generally being militarily powerful and destructive and conquering various species, trying to form an empire. Things like that.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I'm not just talking about interference with prewarp societies, I'm talking about the Hishmeri just generally being militarily powerful and destructive and conquering various species, trying to form an empire. Things like that.
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Yes. That would fall under 'somebody else is already interfering' as 'blew them the hell up' is pretty much the most you can interfere with a civilization.
 
ilbgar123 said:
I cannot recall any instance of that being portrayed as morally correct when the Prime Directive isn't overruling people wanting to interfere, which someone else already interfering has never NOT negated.
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It's not about non-interference or the Prime Directive; it's "Is the Federation supposed to be policeman to the galaxy, stopping other civilizations from doing things we think are bad?"
 
Briefvoice said:
It's not about non-interference or the Prime Directive; it's "Is the Federation supposed to be policeman to the galaxy, stopping other civilizations from doing things we think are bad?"
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Only the grossly horrible things like massive repression of individual right and liberties, slavery, and blowing inhabited planets up. It's just that those are weirdly common.
 
Interesting territory. When is it okay to employ force to get someone else to play by your playbook?
 
MTB said:
Interesting territory. When is it okay to employ force to get someone else to play by your playbook?
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Depends entirely on the playbook and the amount of force necessary.

UFP has superpowered diplomacy. Talking sense into people just works far better for us than smacking some sense into them.

There is also the issue that if we draw a line at, say, slavery, and go after slavers... well. Slavers logically will not be talking with us much after that. So, no talking the Ittick Ka out of slavery for example. Needing yet another dose of violence.

And thus it would take far longer, and cost far more, to use guns instead of tolerating the atrocities while exerting as much cultural, economical, and political pressure as the FDS feels safe (so as to not piss off slavers so much that they would close their borders to us) and Council moral and affordable.

But. There are lines. And a sprinkle of starships, like a bit of spice for a meal, can do wonders for an otherwise peaceful diplomacy. Especially with some species.
 
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Sending diplomats is applying a form of force; and the playbook and the lines drawn are the same thing. That's why I wrote it's interesting to discuss.
 
Ok, I am a bit lost as to the current conversation. Are we discussing the merits and restrictions of the Prime Directive and whether or not we have been violating it this whole time?
 
It's more "based on what ethical and philosophical framework do you intervene, and how far do you go?"
Prime Directive is part of that, yes.
 
MTB said:
It's more "based on what ethical and philosophical framework do you intervene, and how far do you go?"
Prime Directive is part of that, yes.
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Well if they are a pre-warp society, then we leave them alone to develop. Though its best to keep an eye on them in case other space-faring civies want to speak to them. Captains would only intervene if they were to be destroyed from outside sources ie. space anomalies and other powers.

However, there are unique instances such as the case of Data's penpal asking for help which was given even though they are a pre-warp society.

To me, it seems the Prime Directive is a somewhat living document. It has hard rules in place, but exceptions can be made when the right precautions are taken.
 
The conversation isn't about the Prime Directive, it's broader than that.
The whole question of whether you intervene in foreign powers you don't like the behaviour of. Not just about prewarps.
 
Alliterate said:
The conversation isn't about the Prime Directive, it's broader than that.
The whole question of whether you intervene in foreign powers you don't like the behaviour of. Not just about prewarps.
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Ahh, ok. That is definitely a hard question to answer. I mean if it's not in our borders then we have no authority and thus can't act. However, a Maquis group will probably spring up and blame our inaction. If it serves the Romulans, Cardassians, Horizon, and/or Klingons then they will intervene for their own gain.

It is not easy to live up to high ideals. The only things I see the Federation doing are relief efforts and try to peace talks going. We can't throw our military around just because we don't like what someone else is doing because we aren't infallible. We have to be better than that.
 
All this talk about high morals is reminding me of the Kerfluffle on Star Trek Online about the Klingon Lesbian women that someone got offended over. Nevermind the fact that said person was talking about 24th century morals from said persons 21st century viewpoint. I sometimes think about it and have to laugh.
 
sunrise said:
The days of the QM's writing full logs for small taskforces is over but the taskforces themselves might remain with single line summaries instead of stories written for them.
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Captain Terse was cloned 6-10 times by a Negative Space Wedgie. Lacking any better option, they were each assigned as chief of staff to a task force commander, where they achieved new heights in efficient report condensing.
 
Woot. Finally caught up and am completely unqualified for voting. That being said, I love those Space-Bugs so much and along with the OSA and Ikka desperately wish to absorb them somehow.

also, fuuuuuuck Horizon.
 
Frustrating too because for most of this I thought we could more or less work together. Never allies but at least the best of the worst options.

But no. Fucj that and fucj then.
 
if by working together you mean being mind controlled by them while at the same time thinking we are free and doing most of the work for them then yes

if you mean working toward the same goals on the level and thought of as a peer power then no

don`t know about others but really not up for being mind controlled by well anyone really for pretty much any reason.
 
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