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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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I mostly like Briefvoice's plan, thought the lack of throwing a Connie-Bee at Vermilion is not something I like. I can totally understand the no to the tech frigates, though, they are not a starter ship (unless you are masochistic)EDIT: but due to RP costs, I guess they are better off building things themselves? I feel a bit bad for them, but... I did add one for the OSA, pp for relations is good in my book
Did add some re-balancing of priorities, though, but mostly what we have as consensus

[X][TOL] Train with Irregular Ops (Caldonian spec ops teams will have C5 S5 H4 P3 N8)

[X][BEE] Do not support the conversion program

[X][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Orion Union Navy. Will require temporary transfer of 3.5 points of Technician crew, to come from federalized member fleets. (-2 pp to set up the transfer program)
[X][CONNIE] Transfer two to the Confederacy of Amarkia Navy
[X][CONNIE] Transfer two to the Magen Chalal of the Ked Paddah
[X][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Tauni Space Gate Command (-3 pp, +5 relations with Tauni)
[X][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Yrillian navy (-5 pp, +8 relations with Yrillia)
[X][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Preservation Coalition Space Bureau of the OSA (-10 pp, +16 relations with Outer Space Alliance)
[X][RELIEF] Approve the program (-200 rp, +40 pp)
[X][MAIDEN] Build a new cruiser around Maiden of Dawn's computer for the Orion Union Navy. (-100 rp, -35 br, -25 sr, Orion Union Navy gains a new custom cruiser (statline C3 S5 H2 L3 P3 D4, crew cost 2/3/3) in 2327.Q1), Maiden of Dawn acts as new research colony while operational (base of 5 rp/year)
[X][LAIO] Provide technical support in adapting the OSA's Ray-class design to Laian needs and capabilities. (-50 rp each year for two years; -20 pp to reserve Honiani 4mt berth in 2326.Q1 for construction of the new Odanner; gain intelligence report on the Ray; Laio will build a 2mt berth at Laian starting in 2326.Q1)
[X][OCTO] Do not arrange the transfer. (Gaen scraps the two Tech-Frigates)

[X][PRIORITY] Star-Kin long-term to Refits / Replacements
[X][PRIORITY] Indorian short-term to Build Renaissance-A (next year).
[X][PRIORITY] Anyone interested in some Starfleet BR for your SR?
 
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Tally Time.
Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Jul 10, 2018 at 12:34 PM, finished with 128 posts and 41 votes.
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Glassware said:
In exchange for arming House Rithe, yes.

Like, if this was arming the Imperial House I could understand it. Not support it, mind you, but understand it, because while Lugis is a bastard he's our bastard. But everything we've learned about them suggests that Rithe are scum who have built their power base on some of the worst of Kortennon's abuses and I severely doubt they'd use the Connie in a way we'd approve of.
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They're scum, yes, who will now be hobbled by using what is currently a second-rate cruiser and in a few years will be a third-rate compared to the tech everyone around them is sporting. Moreover, considering that they're probably being bought by the Romulans with shiny guns, I'd prefer they be bought by us so we can bring the polity as a whole into a place where we can pivot in a year or two and put their feudal system under diplomatic siege.
 
Forgothrax said:
They're scum, yes, who will now be hobbled by using what is currently a second-rate cruiser and in a few years will be a third-rate compared to the tech everyone around them is sporting. Moreover, considering that they're probably being bought by the Romulans with shiny guns, I'd prefer they be bought by us so we can bring the polity as a whole into a place where we can pivot in a year or two and put their feudal system under diplomatic siege.
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Eh, the loss of OSA relationship doesn't look worth it to me.
 
[X][PRIORITY] Star-Kin long-term to Refits / Replacements
[X][PRIORITY] Indorian short-term to Build Renaissance-A (next year).
[X][PRIORITY] Anyone interested in some Starfleet BR for your SR?

[X][TOL] Train with Special Projects (Caldonian spec ops teams will have C6 S5 H4 P2 N8)

[X][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Yrillian navy (-5 pp, +8 relations with Yrillia)
[X][CONNIE] Transfer two to the Magen Chalal of the Ked Paddah
[X][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Tauni Space Gate Command (-3 pp, +5 relations with Tauni)
[X][CONNIE] Transfer two to the Confederacy of Amarkia Navy

[X][BEE] Do not support the conversion program

[X][LAIO] Provide technical support in adapting the OSA's Ray-class design to Laian needs and capabilities. (-50 rp each year for two years; -20 pp to reserve Honiani 4mt berth in 2326.Q1 for construction of the new Odanner; gain intelligence report on the Ray; Laio will build a 2mt berth at Laian starting in 2326.Q1)

[X][MAIDEN] Build a new cruiser around Maiden of Dawn's computer for the Orion Union Navy. (-100 rp, -35 br, -25 sr, Orion Union Navy gains a new custom cruiser (statline C3 S5 H2 L3 P3 D4, crew cost 2/3/3) in 2327.Q1), Maiden of Dawn acts as new research colony while operational (base of 5 rp/year)

[X][RELIEF] Approve the program (-200 rp, +40 pp)

[X][OCTO] Do not arrange the transfer. (Gaen scraps the two Tech-Frigates)
 
Forgothrax said:
OSA net loss is -60, Licori are +50, and it is a lot harder to get Licori relationship points right now because they aren't an affiliate. OSA can generate ~140-150 points with a push, Licori... 30 maybe?
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Or, we could choose to not arm people we seriously disapprove of, whether or not it would make them happy.

Narratively, no good will come of this. It will materially aid the oppression and enslavement of millions. It won't play well at home. It will help finish convincing neighboring powers that our morals are nothing but a layer of bullshit marketing that we use to cover for whatever decision is convenient at the time.

We shouldn't be arming dictators to try to bribe them to be our dictators rather than the other guy's. We can and must do better than emulating American foreign policy.

If we go down this road, it will be time to ask ourselves why we aren't also arming the Hismiri as a pawn against the pact. Because that would be basically the same kind of choice, and I am against it for the same reasons.
 
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Remember that we don't have unlimited RP, folks. Change your votes so we can still do things. We do not need to do the aid thing this year.
 
It is nice to see how big the Ashidi fleet is:
3 M11 heavy cruisers(C6 S6 H5 L7 P6 D5)
12 L7-19 cruisers(C4 S5 H4 L5 P3 D5)
6 S3 cruisers (C3 S6 H2 L3 P1 D3)
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Why do the KP want these.

They retired their old fleet. That makes no sense.
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Another reason, besides those mentioned- the large crews mean that personnel can be quickly rotated through the ships to familiarize them with relatively (c. 2310 or later) Federation hardware, in case the Ked Peddah decide to adopt our designs later. They're good vessels for providing the nucleus to crew future Centaur-Bs and so on

AKuz said:
I think you'll find that all of those things were actually invented on Rihan!

> : <
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Ah, but what about second-greatest Russian invention?

Pessimism!

[Greatest Russian invention of all, I am saving for the long-delayed fourth chapter of my Chekov omake. :p ]
 
Forgothrax said:
Licori are not affiliates and are possibly getting heavily influenced by the Romulans. OSA are affiliates. Giving this over speeds up us bringing the Licori in, which is good strategically and good for the Licori people because we are much more likely to give a shit about the suffering from slavery and feudal overlords.



... this is not an empire quest. An AI ship will give us (rather, an affiliate) a cool unique vessel. It will not turn into an AI for us. The GMs do not let us get sudden jumps in technology like that, nor do they change the tone of the quest with tech like that.
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less interested in the teck going fleet wide or anything but the RP and options with that are interesting

so the grand diplomatic game we are playing between the romulans / HoH and us, and you want to have a "get" V the romulans that are pretty much out of that game there
and slap against the OSA that has way more likely to be snapped up by the HoH?
.......
oke? if that is the logic your working with then go for it.
i`m not seeing a good positive thing here and a major political backslap for no real reason that would slow things down V the OSA becoming part of us?
 
[X][PRIORITY] Star-Kin long-term to Refits / Replacements
[X][PRIORITY] Indorian short-term to Build Renaissance-A (next year).
[X][PRIORITY] Anyone interested in some Starfleet BR for your SR?

...

I wouldn't mind selling a Connie to the Licori IN GENERAL, if, say, the Bene wanted one I'd be all for it. But I do mind selling one to House Rithe IN PARTICULAR. I strongly suspect them of having been somehow involved in provoking the recent war.

That said, we've got like eleven of the things to play with. I like all these options, so I'm going to boost most EXCEPT the House Rithe one.

And, hm, OK, we miiight run low on RP. Trying to budget. Sort of. I think this runs to 360 RP. I REALLY wish there were a way to arrange financing for the massive RELIEF project, seeing as how it looks like the kind of thing that in real life is a multi-year effort.

...

[X][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Orion Union Navy. Will require temporary transfer of 3.5 points of Technician crew, to come from federalized member fleets. (-2 pp to set up the transfer program)
[X][CONNIE] Transfer two to the Confederacy of Amarkia Navy
[X][CONNIE] Transfer two to the Magen Chalal of the Ked Paddah
[X][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Tauni Space Gate Command (-3 pp, +5 relations with Tauni)
[X][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Yrillian navy (-5 pp, +8 relations with Yrillia)
[X][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Preservation Coalition Space Bureau of the OSA (-10 pp, +16 relations with Outer Space Alliance)

[NAH][CONNIE] Transfer one to the Space Probe Agency of the Vermillion Connectivity (-9 pp, +19 on [Obsolete Technology] tag on Vermillion Connectivity; -35 rp for technical assistance)
[NAH][CONNIE] Convert one to a Starfleet Escape Entertainment Ship (-15 rp to facilitate conversion into a SEES, +5 pp, +0.02 OET throughput annually)
[NAH][CONNIE] Transfer one to a consortium of independent Yrillian work-gangs (+50 br, +40 sr, -15 pp, +27 relations with Yrillia, -20 rp to facilitate conversion to haul cargo)
[OH_HELL_NO][CONNIE] Transfer one to House Rithe of the Arcadian Empire (+50 br, +40 sr, -20 pp, +29 relations with Licori, +21 on [Horizon Influence] tag on Licori, -75 relations with OSA)

...

[X][BEE] Do not support the conversion program
[...DAMMIT_NO_SIGH][BEE] Support a conversion program (-100 rp, Constitution-C refit design developed in one year (refit cost 35 br/30 sr; new statline C5 S3 H3 L4 P3 D6; new crew cost O2 E6 T4; may support two Stingers or JAF frigates), two Constitution-B cruisers will be transferred to Apiata in 2325Q1 and will immediately go into refit)

...

[X][LAIO] Provide technical support in adapting the OSA's Ray-class design to Laian needs and capabilities. (-50 rp each year for two years; -20 pp to reserve Honiani 4mt berth in 2326.Q1 for construction of the new Odanner; gain intelligence report on the Ray; Laio will build a 2mt berth at Laian starting in 2326.Q1)

[X][MAIDEN] Build a new cruiser around Maiden of Dawn's computer for the Orion Union Navy. (-100 rp, -35 br, -25 sr, Orion Union Navy gains a new custom cruiser (statline C3 S5 H2 L3 P3 D4, crew cost 2/3/3) in 2327.Q1), Maiden of Dawn acts as new research colony while operational (base of 5 rp/year)

[X][OCTO] Arrange for the transfer of two Tech-Frigates to the Vermillion Connectivity (-10 rp to ensure the safety of the Tech-Frigates' warp cores, +5 on [Obsolete Technology] tag on Vermillion Connectivity.

I feel forced to...

[X][RELIEF] Approve the program (-200 rp, +40 pp)

I REALLY wish we had formal confirmation/denial from @OneirosTheWriter that the RELIEF option would be available in future years, as opposed to a rumor about something something someone heard one of the co-QMs say in the Discord chat at some point.

Or, as mentioned above, a way to amortize the cost. Even if it meant spending more in the long run (60 RP/yr for four years), it would feel like a more realistic way to organize the project rather than presenting us with a Green Goblin-esque "sadistic choice" between a small number of hugely expensive programs where we can only pick one and keep our research going. :(
 
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I could see selling one to the Imperial house but not house Rithe. House Ixia. The imperial house yes House Calamar yes not any of the others.
 
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Redhead222 said:
so the grand diplomatic game we are playing between the romulans / HoH and us, and you want to have a "get" V the romulans that are pretty much out of that game there
and slap against the OSA that has way more likely to be snapped up by the HoH?
.......
oke? if that is the logic your working with then go for it.
i`m not seeing a good positive thing here and a major political backslap for no real reason that would slow things down V the OSA becoming part of us?
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OSA are already onboard and their tags are cleared, and nobody wanted a piece other than the Harmony; they are also very easy to run the diplomatic score up on now thanks to push. Go look at their relationship status last year at Snakepit and at the most recent push; see the difference? Licori are not on board and them not being on board makes it a lot harder to get them there, especially when the textev is saying the Romulans are cozying up tag progress or no and explicitly warning about the possibility that we have to choose between a Romulan or Horizon-dominated Licori. Wanting to do everything possible to sway them in the light of that is my reasoning.

You're looking at the OSA and saying "the OSA lose 75 but the Licori gain 50, not worth it" when the OSA are far, far easier to get positive points with and the Licori are not only harder but there is the possibility that we are on the edge of losing them, tag status or not.

brmj said:
Or, we could choose to not arm people we seriously disapprove of, whether or not it would make them happy.

Narratively, no good will come of this. It will materially aid the oppression and enslavement of millions. It won't play well at home. It will help finish convincing neighboring powers that our morals are nothing but a layer of bullshit marketing that we use to cover for whatever decision is convenient at the time.

We shouldn't be arming dictators to try to bribe them to be our dictators rather than the other guy's. We can and must do better than emulating American foreign policy.

If we go down this road, it will be time to ask ourselves why we aren't also arming the Hismiri as a pawn against the pact. Because that would be basically the same kind of choice, and I am against it for the same reasons.
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Or we could choose to take every opportunity to bring another polity closer to us so we can wrap them in our coils and let our diplomatic organizations help us start the process of ripping the assholes from Licori society? Like it or not, ignoring them just means that (as evidenced by the intel report) the Licori go looking elsewhere for weapons and not only end up with them anyway, they get cozy with a power who has no particular interest in reforming them.

Literally speaking, as one of the senior ship designers this ship is nothing more than a millstone around their neck as compared to new construction. The RennieA coming out will be more than capable of reaming the ConnieB without stopping. It's crew weight in frigates or even Mirandas would do the same. It's going to have a useful life for them measured in a few years and a few years after that will be a third-rater.

If you're going to be concerned about the millions who will be oppressed, a single ship won't do that. Leaving them out in the cold and reducing the influence we can apply to them, on the other hand, does. Washing your hands and citing moral constraints leading you to inaction does nothing but salve your own conscience.
 
you know what, i`ll agree to disagree with you on this point and leave it at that.

i have little interest to argue to point.
you make your choice i made mine.

thank you for explaining your POV.
its enlightening even if i disagree
 
Briefvoice said:
I mean, I can see the logic if you go, "I'd rather lose the ability to activate some tech teams in return for having 40pp more to spend in Snakepit."
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Well, 200rp is enough to activate 26 tech teams, keeping in mind that we have 48 tech teams total. Of course, it doesn't actually translate into deactivated teams until we actually start running close to what we need for the research turn, (like now,) but still. Cardassian Quest players would be super happywith being able to spend 40pp for 200rp.

Hmm... If there are, say, six non-starfleet research teams on this project, then that's enough rp to keep them working for four years, or four teams for six years. Or five teams for five years. I doubt it's only three teams for eight years...
Forgothrax said:
You're looking at the OSA and saying "the OSA lose 75 but the Licori gain 50, not worth it" when the OSA are far, far easier to get positive points with and the Licori are not only harder but there is the possibility that we are on the edge of losing them, tag status or not.
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If it was just a numbers game, I'd completely agree with you. But even if we can pave it over easily with a diplopush, what is that -75 relations supposed to mean narratively? Remember, the Tauni having a chunk of moon fall on them and Starfleet not being able to respond was -100 relations. So I imagine that the OSA might react to this with about 3/4ths as much negativity as the Tauri did back then. We'd also probably really upset the FDS by making them have to patch over the outrage we caused, but I think that's how they always feel about Starfleet, so no harm there. :V
 
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Tally
Adhoc vote count started by Raw90 on Jul 10, 2018 at 2:49 PM, finished with 148 posts and 43 votes.
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Simon_Jester said:
Another reason, besides those mentioned- the large crews mean that personnel can be quickly rotated through the ships to familiarize them with relatively (c. 2310 or later) Federation hardware, in case the Ked Peddah decide to adopt our designs later. They're good vessels for providing the nucleus to crew future Centaur-Bs and so on
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They do have a complete lack of Cruiser-sized ship.
I do doubt they'll pick up the Centaur-B, they have 18-19 Orahs, that can (2325 tech) be refit into C4S4H2L4P2D5, I.e. a Ce-B without the diplomacy, or a tougher Miri-B.

I still want them to build a Kepler for fleet scout, but it seems it's a sole opinion.
 
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