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- Germany
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- He/Him
As long as you just destroy your own race, that point of view might have merit. Once it involves other races, it becomes problematic, in more than one dimension.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
But in this case both the Ittick-ka and the Gorn seem pretty eager for the fight. It's Klingons and the Romulans all over again on a smaller scale.
Just curious if the Gorn won their war do we save the Ittick-ka and stop the Gorn gaining much of their territory and affiliates at the expense of our tag influnce?
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- Germany
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- He/Him
Yup, that's one of the problems. Because it also involves their slaves/'allies' etc., and flinging around world-devastating stuff (ie, %c matter and or antimatter) isn't something that should be allowed. On the other hand, what to do?
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
I can think of several instances where the Prime Directive was violated for the greater good. The Yigizi and their grey goo situation, The Orion Empire weapons depot on that pre industrial world, and several others come to mind as prime examples of when it is better to interfere to reduce the damage done to the inflicted species.
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...I would in fact be okay with a massive war that would see millions dead and inflict immense suffering on the Gorn, the Ittick-ka, and their vassal species not happening. War is bad. Even if we're not a participant, war is still bad.
There's a certain in-universe/out-of-universe dichotomy here.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Probably because the Ur'razzi are inside of our space, and the bad start.
There has been a great deal of paranoia about Breen attacking the Dreamers, and my plan to "protect" them to justify parking a substantial TF on Breen borders. IC there has been no Breen attack on the Dreamers or a threat of it.
Even if the Breen wanted to, they cant spare the ships. ST cosmozoa can usually protect themselves from starships too.
I would have been surprised to see any. HoH has 100 relation points to gain before attacking it, and I would expect to see no progress until it disappeared anyway.
Thanks. If we can spare the ships, and smallish TF to lock them as affiliates is probably a good idea then.
I wish the FDS did UFPs diplomacy.
Sophontarian concerns, ethics, etc. We want to prevent wars if we can.
The question is if we can afford to.
We have had some very interesting events regrading member problems. I do not expect Gorn membership to be the end of our troubles with them.
As Derpmind said, HIP builds several years faster then UP. There is no point in starting both at the same time.
Also, UP2 will have 4 berths (UP did) once completed, which is not enough to justify a HIP yet.
Gorn, yes. Ittick-ka? I remember no such thing.
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Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
Even that depends on which series and episode you are watching. In this quest I would say yes, we would intervene. But the PD isn't consistently defined in the show.
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- They/Them
As a society the Ittick-ka basically see the galaxy as "people to be conquered" and "people who cannot yet be conquered." They're pretty much constantly spoiling for a fight.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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- He/Him
I'm not sure why the Gorn would be less fun affiliated to us? We can choose to clear the tags that are the nastiest (like Dickensian Nightmare), affiliate them and shoo off the Cardassians, then leave them alone to be interesting.
They also keep noncombatants onboard their warships. Given the way the combat engine works, even battles in their favor will kill a lot of innocents. The Hishmeri are pretty tough and potent, but even they will struggle if they have to throw down with the Pact and not just the Imelak.
FDS disagrees, since alien modes is a 300pt, so...
I contest that the Gorn can still retain good flavor affiliates or not, especially since we can let them percolate as affiliates forever and a day due to tags.
... A large war with significant casualties is exciting? Ooook.
Their leadership does. Not the people themselves who will suffer.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
More accurately, the consider everyone to be an enemy and threat to themselves, because that is how its always been in their past.
So they conquer everyone to neutralize the threat and strengthen themselves.
They dont want war and conquest, they want safety. Is my understanding of them at least.
- Location
- Outside the Box
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- She/Her
Better to fail having tried then never try at all.
That's not what I meant. I was arguing that we should hold off on making a HIP, and instead use that pp to help fund fully buying UP2.
The problem with that is that it's hard to justify some OOC decisions with IC reasons.
- Location
- Illinois
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- He/Him
True in the general, but not if failing having tried results in a Great Power War.
On the Chrystovian issue, I'm hopeful we get options that aren't a conventional task force. Specifically, either sending them materials for, or helping them build, fixed defenses and mines. Perhaps even lend-leasing Constitution -Bs, since we know that governments can call up reserves in a war. The general idea would be to make conquering them too much of a hassle to be worth it.
If we do send a conventional task force, I'd advocate for having its mission be to secure a Chrystovian-Alupii alliance, as a counterbalance to the Ashalla Pact on its other side.
Additionally, let's just think about what happens if the gorn win this war.
Flavour is all well and good, but a hunger for this particular bit of excitement could cost us more than some entertaining narratives.
The emphasis is mine, and a sign I think of what would cause the gorn to cross to Great Power and thus be out of our reach to absorb on a purely diplomatic level.
Flavour is all well and good, but a hunger for this particular bit of excitement could cost us more than some entertaining narratives.
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- Outside the Box
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- She/Her
If the QMs don't give us those options, maybe we can make them ourselves? A TF to both resolve the Distant Stars tag and also give them greater defences? Dodge under appearing to want to expand Federation territory by instead focusing on just allowing the Chrystovians tomaintain independence?
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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- He/Him
On the other hand, letting the fash conquer, rape, and pillage because they might get mad at us if we don't roll over and let them says something about us, doesn't it?
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Feel like there's a time limit with this.
You know literally nothing about the causes or justifications for any potential conflict between the Cardassians and the Chrystovians.
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The question is, do we focus on Distant Stars and Great Power Ambitions to deter the war, or go all-in on reform and potentially affiliation with their slavery tag?
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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Yes, BV, I'm sure that there's a reason someone deserves to be invaded and conquered by Space Nazis and to be enslaved while their planets are stripmined, served with a nice side of genocide. Care to explain what that might be?
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This is missing an Allupii TF-more regular contact could help us avoid situations like the current Chrystovian one, and give us basing areas on the far side of Cardassian space which is vital for containing the Ashalla Pact in the long term.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
Who said anything about the HIP. I am referring to getting a second UP style shipyard set up not a second HIP. The second one can come later on after the 2 UP is set up and has several Berths working. I am not fool enough to want both at the same time since that would be counterproductive to our needs and a waste of valuable PP.
I don't know how you guys are getting a Second HIP from what I was saying previously. I am part of the group that says we need a second UP not as second HIP. The HIP can come later on.
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You also know literally nothing about Cardassian war objectives or intentions.
They fought the Konen for years and then acceded to an admittedly lopsided treaty that does not seem to have left the Konen stripmined, enslaved, or genocided. They seem to have come to peaceful relations with the Dylaarians without any war at all. All this stripmining and enslaving talk is hypothetical worst case. It's just as possible they'll blow up some Chrystovian ships, force them to sign over some mines, and sign a treaty where they stop talking to enemies of Cardassia and that's it.