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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Thank you Oneiros.
Adhoc vote count started by Brogatar on Apr 12, 2018 at 9:52 PM, finished with 168 posts and 55 votes.
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Interesting, the Border Peacekeeping actually seems to be on the lower end of tension-raising, because the Klingons see it protecting them as much as protecting the Romulans too. Comes with the downside of significant ship investment for a long time. Not sure we can afford this, despite how attractive it now looks.
 
[X][PREZ] Industrial Support/Lend-Lease Response
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
 
Hmmmm... I wonder if something like Lend-Lease could stay more 'neutral' if the Klingons also gained something as well?

Tricky - on one hand, we don't want the Klingons to start seeing a Romulan-Federation alignment in the wings; the neutrality that the Federation has managed to (mostly) keep has been a pretty useful tool in keeping those borders calm, and the long period of "see, you can trust the Federation to not get into funny business" is increasingly compounding that perception of neutrality.

On the other, getting the Romulans to be more open with the Federation, perhaps cooperating more in regards to... say... the Harmony of Horizon... would be pretty valuable. And we definitely don't want the Breen trying to upset the whole situation. The Breen takes a bite out of the Star Empire, then the Klingons get in on the action... then probably the Harmony get in on the action... and then who knows?

The aggressive or conciliatory diplomatic response are probably the 'easiest' neutral options. The former can be seen as the Federation generally disliking a new player muscling in on the stable borders, while the latter is 'typical' Federation. The Romulans might find the latter irksome... but then, the Breen haven't attacked the Star Empire yet, just hit a Federation vessel and bounced.
 
[X][PREZ] Aggressive Diplomatic Response to isolate Breen
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
[X][PREZ] Conciliatory Diplomatic Response to Breen
 
Huh. Peacekeeping duty might work well. Since the Klingons do have other powers and concerns to deal with. It would free both the Romulans and Klingons up to look outwards away from each other if the Federation takes up border patrol and peacekeeping duty.
 
aceraptor said:
Huh. Peacekeeping duty might work well. Since the Klingons do have other powers and concerns to deal with. It would free both the Romulans and Klingons up to look outwards away from each other if the Federation takes up border patrol and peacekeeping duty.
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Sizeable and long term commitment were the words that got my attention there.
 
With the Shark providing actual details as to what the options are, I'm changing my vote.

[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
[X][PREZ] Aggressive Diplomatic Response to isolate Breen
[X][PREZ] Conciliatory Diplomatic Response to Breen

Everything else is worthless and/or actively fucks us over.
 
[X][PREZ] Romulan-Klingon Border Peacekeeping Response
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
 
Romulan-Klingon Border Peacekeeping Response - FDS is split. As some of you have noted, in the event things really do to shit, the Klingons could be upset at the Federation blocking the Klingons from taking military action. It would also edge into concerns with lend-lease -- it's a deal that more favors the Romulans. However, the Empire has security concerns of its own, and part of their heavily militarization on the border is that while they trust the Romulan government now, they are very concerned about a revanchist first strike, either from the current government trying to secure itself or from a successor government. If you commit to this mission, they expect it sizable and long term. As for the Romulan perspective -- well, they can't complain.
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Would allow both parties to reduce their border fleets, but we would have to maintain this for years to come.
How many ships do we want to put between these polities, and are we prepared to have them sit there for a decade plus?

I think it might just be viable.

[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
[X][PREZ] Romulan-Klingon Border Peacekeeping Response
[X][PREZ] Conciliatory Diplomatic Response to Breen

Try to get the Breen to talk as a carrot, get other local polities on side as a stick and show we mean peace to the other great powers by acting as a neutral space guard between belligerents.
 
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Gawain said:
I assume the Kepler is the next step up from the renaissance.
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More of a short step up and a long step sideways. A Rennie would beat a Kepler like a drum in a fight, but the Kepler's scientific facilities are vastly superior and for most civilian roles a Starfleet vessel could be expected to fulfill, the Kepler is an equal or superior ship.

065tdsa said:
The Klingons are very open. In that they are the best there is, and intend to conquer everyone. Without another aggressive power to distract them they'll turn around to us as their next foe. We need a third power to balance them out so they can't choose to fight us without fear of a backstab.

Having the Romulans always looking for weakness whereas we have proven we can be trusted not to backstab them is the very base of our relationship with them. A relationship that leads to them having to beat the Romulans first before they attack us, and therefore serves to check the Romulans from attacking us in turn.
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The problem is that if the Klingons see the two entities 'the Federation' and 'the Romulans' seeming to merge into one entity... suddenly, this calculation falls apart and the Klingons have no real recourse except "git gud so we can attack the Federomulan Giant Blue-Green Blob!"
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
the Klingons like the current balance of power, even if it is imbalanced in their favor.
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They are also aware that we have a vested interest in maintaining that balance, rather than letting it continue to swing in their direction.

OneirosTheWriter said:
However, the Empire has security concerns of its own, and part of their heavily militarization on the border is that while they trust the Romulan government now, they are very concerned about a revanchist first strike, either from the current government trying to secure itself or from a successor government. If you commit to this mission, they expect it sizable and long term.
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I have to sit back so I can truly savor the moment, here. If we take this option, the Klingon Empire is going to push for a Federation-controlled Neutral Zone between Klingon and Romulan space.

Wow.
 
Vebyast said:
Commander, Starfleet has had days to months to think about the options
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Days.

How much leverage would we have with Lend/Lease? What would be the goal of Recon? What is Sabotage even possible, much less a reasonable response? We know the Romulans have heard about this; what are they doing and thinking? What about the Klingons, what do they know and what are they thinking or doing in response? What exactly is "early mobilization"? What would a "conciliatory" diplomatic response entail? How about "aggressive"? How would the Klingons and Romulans react to each of these options? Would the Romulans turn any of them down? What are the projected long-term consequences of Lend-Lease on the Romulan economy, particularly its fleet? It took me three minutes to come up with that list of questions and we should be going into this vote with answers to every single one of them.
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Some of these overlap but again to avoid spaghetti:
  • Romulan and Klingon response to the Breen is uncertain at this time; tho you can assume the Romulans are pissed AF.
  • Romulans are going to be displeased with conciliatory, however, it does let them fight the war on their own terms. If this props up or undermines Velim's government is difficult for the FDS to determine conclusively; in short use your best judgement.
  • Lend-Lease would likely mostly be infrastructure income, which could be used for resource expansion, shipyard construction, more crew etc. Depends what the President authorizes. As for leverage I'm not sure what you mean. It's going right into Romulan hands. You/the Prez can try to mandate some restrictions but it's to help them out in a war.
 
The biggest problem with the border peacekeeping option, and I'm not sure it's a solvable one, is that we're already insanely stretched for ships to cover our current needs, and this mission would require us to send good ones to boot.
 
Huh, with the new updates I guess I'll change my vote around. Picking votes to emphasize least picked but still good...

[X][PREZ] Aggressive Diplomatic Response to isolate Breen
[X][PREZ] Romulan-Klingon Border Peacekeeping Response
[X][PREZ] Industrial Support/Lend-Lease Response
 
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Simon_Jester said:
Any large scale Federation mobilization won't just shake the Breen, it will shake the galaxy. It signals that we consider this to be a Biophage-level threat, or at least on the scale of "Licori mentats screwing around may blow up a star and doom every planet in a fifty light year radius."
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I do agree with that, do note I didn't vote for that option.

Now, with the clarifications by Onerios... if we take Lend-Lease, the Border Peacekeeping is going to be a must.
 
I hate to say this, but it sounds like this may be a pivotal moment in the nature of our interactions with the Klingons and the Romulans. I know as the Federation we should be trying to promote peaceful coexistence between the various galactic players whenever possible. That being said I'm not seeing a good middle ground here in helping the Romulans without pissing off our Klingon allies. As much as it pains me to admit we may need to think about the long term ramifications of these decisions. Who do we think will the the better horse to back in this race and which faction do we feel will be the better neighbor in the long run? Personally I agree that the Romulan Senate has proven itself to be a fluid and unreliable actor in the past and that the current reforms are not at all set in stone. That said an expansionary Klingon Empire with a strong unified government may also become a threat in the future if they ever set their sites on acquiring Federation space. Ultimately it comes down to what we're willing to gamble on.
 
Alastor Mobius Toth said:
it bears reminding that Romulans engineered Biophage in the first place.
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Incorrect. They found it, tried to harness it, and when they failed did their best to bury the evidence.

Also, I wonder if a variant of Lend-Lease would be workable where we do a massive sophontarian relief effort for both Klingons and Romulans, working to help them with civilian aid, helping repair the damage from the war. (Which would let them prioritize military spending from their own resources, yes, but we're not actually giving them military aid...)
 
[X][PREZ] Aggressive Diplomatic Response to isolate Breen
[X][PREZ] Romulan-Klingon Border Peacekeeping Response
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response

On the plus side, if the Romulan-Klingon borer peacekeeping goes through it should be easier to justify having more ships in Starfleet in the future. Though admittedly that would be because a not insignificant portion of Starfleet will be tasked with said patrol.

You know, given that we've got Q poking his head around here, wonder if he'll decide to reveal the Borg to the Federation in a few decades time?
 
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Omake - Tarrak - Shadows
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    • Tarrak​

    "Helm, prepare to take us out of spacedock."

    Her new Helmsman was a nervous Yan-Ros by the name of Jan, just barely out of the Academy and so new his collar insignia were still cooling. Looking at him, while he seemed to mentally check the handbook a half-dozen times before he pressed any button, made her feel incredibly old.

    I shouldn't feel this old! I'm not!

    Tera zh'Taaliq found herself a very bemused zhen that particular morning. Morning according to the ship's clock, at any rate. They were making ready to get underway from the moorings of the repair slip, and her Helm wasn't giving her the warm and fuzzies about his ability to do so without breaking the dock. Tarrak, obviously, would be fine, built for battling both foes and the stresses of a trinary neutron star system, but the slip was not so solidly built. She cleared her throat, and did her best to look nonchalant.

    Jan started, head whipping around to find her with her eyebrow raised, watching him. "They taught you basic shiphandling at the Academy, Ensign." she stated calmly, and smiled a bit. "Don't overthink it. You already know what to do." Despite the fact that Tarrak is a hell of a lot bigger than an academy trainer ship.

    Background thoughts aside, he gave her a nod and a tight-lipped smile in return, then returned his attention to his console, his movements as he brought up various systems and readouts a little more confident.

    Baby steps.

    "Captain on the bridge!"

    Tera turned and her smile grew a bit wider and more genuine as Victoria strode onto the bridge, looking for all the world like she owned it. Which, to be fair, might as well have been the case. The Captain waved everyone back to work, her occupied hand carrying a rather ornately wrought stoneware mug that, if Tera had to guess, held her captain's morning cocoa. She took a moment to settle herself in her command chair, one leg pulled up under her. "Status of underway preparations, Ops?" she asked, turning her attention to Tera.

    "Sensors-" she said, receiving a minute nod from the Science Officer, "and Astro are ready and eager. Helm is finishing his final checks now." Jan stiffened almost imperceptibly, then nodded.

    "Good. I'll be glad to get this old girl back out there again." Victoria replied, though she sounded a bit off. Looking a bit closer, Tera noted that her captain's face was perhaps a shade paler than its normal state of partial-tan, and her blue eyes were closer to ice than ocean. Hm…

    "Final checks complete, Ma'am." Ensign Jan stated, pulling Tera out of her musing. Excitement shivered in her bones as she looked at Victoria, and the Captain matched her grin for grin, whatever else might have been up with her.

    "Well then, Mr. Jan… take us out."

    Tarrak's impulse engines thrummed to life, all two-point-three megatons of her slowly sliding out of the dock with nary a sideways twitch, her Helmsman's hands steady on the controls. A few moments passed, before Sensors reported that they were clear of the yard's safety zone. Tera nodded, fingers tapping against her own panel as she pulled up Astrography's inputs and overlaid Sensor's take on top of it before projecting it to the main screen, a map of the system and all the comings and goings within it appearing there. Turning to Victoria, she asked the most pertinent question she had at the moment. "We're in the clear and Mission Control is greenlighting us to leave when we're ready. What are your orders, Captain?"

    Victoria studied the screen with a contemplative hum. "Let's get out past the asteroid belt and stretch her legs. Do a full impulse run between the outer planets, maybe dust off the phaser banks on some stony asteroids nobody's got a use for, and try not to interdict any civilian shipping in the doing thereof. How's that sound, Miss zh'Taaliq?"

    "Sounds like a good start to the day, ma'am. Helm, you heard her." Tera pulled down the map and replaced it with the standard viewport. The starfield swung as the explorer heeled over and roared out into the black. Tarrak once more played amongst the stars, and, as it turned out, her Helmsman wasn't so bad, once he got past his jitters.

    A small noise dragged Tera's attention away from her console a few minutes later, eyes flickering to its source. Victoria's complexion had paled still further and, in point of fact, she looked a little green as she clutched her mug, lips pursed tightly. Tera looked around the room; none of the others had noticed anything amiss. She made her way, unhurried, to the Captain's chair. "Something the matter, Captain?" she asked in an undertone.

    Victoria looked up, expression pinched, and managed a small smile. "I don't know if I ate something that disagreed with me, or if I picked up a bug back on Earth." she said, shrugging, and then smiled ruefully. "All of this advanced science and we still don't have a reliable remedy for the common stomach bug. Or the cold, for that matter."

    Tera nodded her understanding. "We've got a couple of little things like that running around back on Andoria. I'm sorry you're not feeling well, ma'am." And she was. There was just little she could do to help, so it ended up feeling empty.

    Victoria huffed amusedly, the light from the ship's overheads glittering off those ice blues as she fixed a somewhat brighter smile on her friend. "I'll live. Don't worry about it. I'm going to bug the Doc for something for the nausea when we get into warp."

    Tera smiled, and returned to her station. They were out past Jupiter now, swanning around at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light. The rest of the day passed smoothly, a bit of an impromptu gunnery competition emerging amongst the Tactical Officer and the first and second watch personnel. She kept a weather eye on her Captain, and while she got still paler and more sickly looking, she kept up a front of confidence and joviality for her crew. Once upon a time, Tera would have wondered at the willpower required, or even just why, but she knew, from long experience.

    Victoria simply wouldn't allow herself to miss a chance to be with her crew, to watch them settle in and hone their skills, to encourage them and offer her own considerable experience for their benefit.

    It was just who she was.
     
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    • OneirosTheWriter said:
    Industrial Support/Lend-Lease Response - FDS opinion is fairly straightforward: the Klingons like the current balance of power, even if it is imbalanced in their favor. However, more symbolically, there is major concern about the Khitomer accords. The Romulans were party to negotiations around the original agreement, and the Klingons wish to see some level of Federation neutrality between them and the Romulans. The Federation assisting the Romulans after they transitioned to a more friendly government will be noted; and possibly construed as a break with neutrality.
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    I don't think this is bad as what people seem to think it is. To my mind the two key points are:
    1. The Klingons like the current balance of power
    2. The Klingons want to see the Federation as a neutral power
    Giving the Romulans infrastructure aid does go against both of these. However there is a simple solution to that; when the Klingon conciliation round comes around vote to give them industrial support as well. It keeps the current balance, shows the Federation has an even hand in dealing with both powers, and can probably be sold to the public as helping our neighbors recover from a devastating war in something equvilant to the Marshall Plan.
     
    UberJJK said:
    I don't think this is bad as what people seem to think it is. To my mind the two key points are:
    1. The Klingons like the current balance of power
    2. The Klingons want to see the Federation as a neutral power
    Giving the Romulans infrastructure aid does go against both of these. However there is a simple solution to that; when the Klingon conciliation round comes around vote to give them industrial support as well. It keeps the current balance, shows the Federation has an even hand in dealing with both powers, and can probably be sold to the public as helping our neighbors recover from a devastating war in something equvilant to the Marshall Plan.
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    People keep pounding this as the obvious "everybody wins" simple solution, but that would be... rather bad gameplay. Choices shouldn't be meaningless. If you piss off the Klingons, it shouldn't be possible to turn around and immediately placate them that way.

    So I hope there's not such option, because that would be terrible, because it would leach out all the consequences for our choice.
     
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