@Alias , may I ask why you think a Lecarre diplomatic posture report is likely to prove enlightening, compared to a report on the extent of their infiltration?

If nothing else, we might well be able to relax a bit if we knew enough to establish some limits on the extent of the infiltration.

To be more clear, though, when a government is unstable, you just cannot realistically hope that their diplomatic posture will remain stable enough that knowing it in detail remains valuable.

Again, imagine being the world's greatest expert in Soviet diplomatic posture circa 1987, or the greatest expert in the Czar's foreign policy circa 1916. You might feel very well informed about how your respective generation of Russians was going to interact with the outside world, but your information wouldn't remain very important for long. And trying to act on it without understanding the underlying structure of the governments and their internal weaknesses isn't going to get you anywhere.

Because there is a high likelihood of the war ending within the next year, and/or of some major event that forces the Federation to freak out and become involved somehow, we really need detailed context for the social and political changes both nations have experienced.
Twelve other people are voting for that so I'm not sure why you're asking me. As for why I think it will be more likely provide useful information rather than what would likely just be a guestimation of the extent of their infiltration and info related to that. Maybe the latter will yield something useful but I feel the posture report will be more helpful.
 
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[x] Simon_Jester
Adhoc vote count started by Pierre Vernier on Jan 10, 2018 at 8:54 PM, finished with 89 posts and 26 votes.
 
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report

[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report
 
(Pick Two Cardassian Tactical Reports due to Tier 2 Analysis, bonus rolled failed)
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Write in class
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

Can this be used for all Ashala Pact members of just Cardassians?
 
This is what I have. The rest can wait until my question is answered.

(Pick One Romulan Tactical Report)
[][ROM] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report

(Pick One Free Klingon Tactical Report - Bonus roll passed, two may be picked)
[][KLI] Klingon Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
[][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

(Pick Three Free Horizon Tactical Report - Listening Post roll - failed)
[][HOH] Harmony of Horizon Old Fleet Tender
[][HOH] Harmony of Horizon Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[][HOH] Harmony of Horizon Dancer Strike Corvette

(Pick one free ISC Report)
[][ISC] ISC Guardian Cruiser

(Pick up to six General Intel Reports)
[][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
 
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Cool thanks. I was going to take both:
9y Konen Fleet Strength Report (Never)
9y Goshawnar Fleet Strength Report (Never)

But I thought about it and came around to everyone's concerns about a possible Cardassian offensive in the GBZ.

(Pick Two Cardassian Tactical Reports due to Tier 2 Analysis, bonus rolled failed)
[X][CARD] Cardassian GBZ Strength
[X][CARD] Dylaarian Fleet Strength

(Pick One Romulan Tactical Report)
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

(Pick One Free Klingon Tactical Report - Bonus roll passed, two may be picked)
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

(Pick Three Free Horizon Tactical Report - Listening Post roll - failed)
[X][HOH] Harmony of Horizon Old Fleet Tender
[X][HOH] Harmony of Horizon Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Harmony of Horizon Dancer Strike Corvette

(Pick one free ISC Report)
[X][ISC] ISC Guardian Cruiser

(Pick up to six General Intel Reports)
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Konen Fleet Strength Report (Never)
 
[X][CARD] Dylaarian Fleet Strength
[x][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Harmony of Horizon Dancer Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Report on Suspected Lecarre Infiltration
 
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 3117 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 77931-78012]
##### NetTally 1.9.9
Task: CARD
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
No. of Votes: 24
Anime_Fan35
Alastor Mobius Toth
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[x][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
No. of Votes: 23
pheonix89
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[x][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 3
pheonix89
Alastor Mobius Toth
Anime_Fan35
[X][CARD] Dylaarian Fleet Strength
No. of Votes: 2
chriswriter90
Jrin
[X][CARD] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
MonkeyTypewriter
[X][CARD] Cardassian GBZ Strength
No. of Votes: 1
chriswriter90

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: ROM
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 26
pheonix89
Alias
Anime_Fan35
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
chriswriter90
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[X][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report
No. of Votes: 1
Alastor Mobius Toth

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: KLI
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 27
pheonix89
Alastor Mobius Toth
Alias
Anime_Fan35
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
chriswriter90
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
No. of Votes: 25
pheonix89
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
chriswriter90
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipyard Report
No. of Votes: 1
Alastor Mobius Toth

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: HOH
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 26
pheonix89
Alastor Mobius Toth
Alias
Anime_Fan35
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
No. of Votes: 25
pheonix89
Alastor Mobius Toth
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser
No. of Votes: 24
pheonix89
Alastor Mobius Toth
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[X][HOH] Harmony of Horizon Dancer Strike Corvette
No. of Votes: 2
chriswriter90
Jrin
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Class
No. of Votes: 1
Anime_Fan35
[X][HOH] Horizon Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 1
Anime_Fan35
[X][HOH] Harmony of Horizon Old Fleet Tender
No. of Votes: 1
chriswriter90
[X][HOH] Harmony of Horizon Virtuoso Strike Corvette
No. of Votes: 1
chriswriter90

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: ISC
[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser
No. of Votes: 24
pheonix89
Alastor Mobius Toth
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[X][ISC] ISC Shipyard Report
No. of Votes: 1
Anime_Fan35
[X][ISC] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
pbluekan
[X][ISC] ISC Guardian Cruiser
No. of Votes: 1
chriswriter90

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: REPORT
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
No. of Votes: 27
pheonix89
agumentic
Alastor Mobius Toth
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
chriswriter90
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
No. of Votes: 23
pheonix89
agumentic
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
chriswriter90
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Simon_Jester
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
No. of Votes: 23
pheonix89
agumentic
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
chriswriter90
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
MonkeyTypewriter
Muramasa
Night
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Simon_Jester
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 23
pheonix89
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
chriswriter90
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
Glassware
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
Muramasa
pbluekan
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
No. of Votes: 23
pheonix89
Alastor Mobius Toth
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Chaos Blade
charysa
chriswriter90
Derek58
Derpmind
Gingganz
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Jrin
Muramasa
Night
Pierre Vernier
Shard
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UbeOne
Winged One
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 14
pheonix89
Alastor Mobius Toth
Alias
Briefvoice
Chacmon
Derek58
Derpmind
Glassware
JesseJ
Night
Shard
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
Winged One
[X][REPORT] Report on Suspected Lecarre Infiltration
No. of Votes: 8
pbluekan
Alastor Mobius Toth
Chaos Blade
Jrin
Muramasa
Pierre Vernier
Simon_Jester
UbeOne
[X][REPORT] Suspected Obsidian Order/Cardassian Intelligence Presence in Dawiar Space
No. of Votes: 4
Alastor Mobius Toth
charysa
Gingganz
Glassware
[X][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 3
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Shard
Winged One
[X][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 3
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Shard
Winged One
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hishmeri
No. of Votes: 2
pbluekan
MonkeyTypewriter
[X][REPORT] Konen Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 1
Anime_Fan35
[X][REPORT] Goshawnar Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 1
Anime_Fan35
[X][REPORT] Dylaarian Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 1
Anime_Fan35
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture
No. of Votes: 1
Anime_Fan35
[X][REPORT] Romulan Shipyard Report
No. of Votes: 1
Anime_Fan35
[X][REPORT] ISC Pathfinder Capital Ship Report
No. of Votes: 1
Anime_Fan35
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 1
Alastor Mobius Toth
[X][REPORT] ISC Shipyard Report
No. of Votes: 1
MonkeyTypewriter
[X][REPORT] Possibility of a separatist coup in the STO by Admiral Chen.
No. of Votes: 1
Random Member
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
Night
[X][REPORT] In depth anaysis of remaining potential Klingon Chancellors
No. of Votes: 1
HearthBorn
[X][REPORT] Konen Fleet Strength Report (Never)
No. of Votes: 1
chriswriter90
Total No. of Voters: 29
 
2321.Q2 - GBZ Negotiations
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[x][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser
[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report

2321.Q2

Paris is, as it ever is, lovely this time of year. The setting sun, the narrow, winding roads, the sounds of life at an easy pace, all of it takes your cares away.

Just as well, too, because every talk you're having right now is adding care after stress after worry.

You're attending a Council function hosted on the rooftop of a prestigious gallery in the heart of Paris. Human art and culture is ... interesting? But hardly your cup of tea, even if being conversant makes that frustratingly memetic species twenty times easier to understand. However, more to the point, two dozen Councillors are here, a number of whom are in the Pacifist caucus and tightly involved in the negotiations surrounding the future of the Gabriel Expanse. If ever you were going to make your voice heard, now is the time.

[ ] Air your concerns to Council
(This should be the issues you want the diplomats to keep fore of mind. The fewer things, the more forceful. Is there an area you want off the possible concession list? Do you want a particular undertaking? Well, let us know)
 
What we want is a removal on talking to members of the Ashalla Pact, and to keep the Enio subsector. Frankly the first one is the more important stipulation - I don't think we have any diplomatically vulnerable affiliates within Cardassian reach, so the agreement not to go after each other's mates is entirely worthless to us at the moment. They're worried about Bajor, so we could agree that we aren't talking about polities that have been outright conquered?
 
What we want is a removal on talking to members of the Ashalla Pact, and to keep the Enio subsector. Frankly the first one is the more important stipulation - I don't think we have any diplomatically vulnerable affiliates within Cardassian reach, so the agreement not to go after each other's mates is entirely worthless to us at the moment. They're worried about Bajor, so we could agree that we aren't talking about polities that have been outright conquered?
They'd never go for it, I can't see it happening with the way things are now. They know that we'd make blatant overtures to their clients and try to peal them away, thus reducing the influx of new materials into the Cardassian economy.
 
They'd never go for it, I can't see it happening with the way things are now. They know that we'd make blatant overtures to their clients and try to peal them away, thus reducing the influx of new materials into the Cardassian economy.
Sure, but what can they do about it? We've demonstrated more than once that we'd win a war at this point. The agreement is entirely lopsided. If they want to keep us from talking to people at all, they have to offer us something we actually want.

I dunno. Maybe we could at least talk them down to us not being allowed to open new dialogues, but the Pact members aren't restricted from starting talks with us? It just feels weird that we're demonstrably the stronger party, are going to renegotiate a treaty that is very much not in our favour and... we just can't?
 
[X] We want the space station orbiting Bajor. I assure you there's nothing particularly important about it, we just want it. Because reasons.
 
[X] Starfleet concerns:
-[X] Secure a route allowing continued coreward exploration without needing to rely on the ISC granting passage (try to get the coreward-tailward half of Opal, or at least the coreward-tailward corner).
-[X] Keep the border defensible and short (prefer diagonal splits to protruding or intruding subsectors). If any part of Enio needs to be surrendered try to at least keep the rimward-tailward half.
 
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[X] The Closest Border
-Remind diplomats that this will be the closest peaceful border we have ever had with installations and mines for several Ashalla Pact species, many of whom we have almost never had a chance to interact with in a peaceful setting.
-Stress the importance of negotiating an exception to the "no contact" rule for at least this area of space so that disputes can be arbitrated and minor disputes don't accelerate out of control.
-Remind them, approvingly, of the Athos V Research colony we share with the Romulans and how much that has done to improve relations. If there were similar chances to 'share' a research colony or two in Gabriel (or access to those alien ruins we keep finding) we might be able to develop access to the Konen, Goshwanar, and Dylaarians that has so far been denied us.
-As far as the actual details of the settlement, Starfleet is mainly concerned that we preserve a corridor for exploration coreward that is controlled by the Federation and not dependent on permission from the ISC. Remind them that we recently contacted an entirely new branch of the Gaeni species that we could never have found if our EC ships had been blocked from traveling corewards and spinwards from Gabriel.
-Prefer to keep the border defensible and short (prefer diagonal splits to protruding or intruding subsectors). If Enio has to be surrendered as a bargaining chip, try to at least keep the rimward-tailward half.

There. I think that's really about two things, one big one about the difficulties and opportunities of having our Gabriel installations right up agianst each other and the other a reminder to preserve a corridor for exploration. Is there anything I'm missing?

EDIT: Added Nix's bit about the shape of the borders.
 
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Securing a coreward route is good but there is no way they are going to let us diplo their pact members without major consesions.

If there is one thing we should try to get is a station at bajor in order to research the wormhole. We could even suggest it to be joint between us and the cardi's as both of a means to appease their paranoia and give us a point of contact with them to diplo
 
If I was QM people meta-gaming and asking about wormholes they shouldn't know about would be exactly the sort of thing that would make me decide the Cardassians are going to discover and exploit that wormhole themselves.
 
Securing a coreward route is good but there is no way they are going to let us diplo their pact members without major consesions.

If there is one thing we should try to get is a station at bajor in order to research the wormhole. We could even suggest it to be joint between us and the cardi's as both of a means to appease their paranoia and give us a point of contact with them to diplo
We don't know about the wormhole. No one knows about the wormhole.
And if you think that the Cardassians would allow us to slip ships to the far end of space the short way when they might be able to stop it, you have more faith in their good nature than I.
 
We don't know about the wormhole. No one knows about the wormhole.
And if you think that the Cardassians would allow us to slip ships to the far end of space the short way when they might be able to stop it, you have more faith in their good nature than I.

We don't? Well that nixs that idea then, still we should push for some form of a regular point of contact that would allow us to engage in diplo. Maybe a research station/colony in enio?
 
- Reiterate that Starfleet sees itself in an advantageous position in the GBZ and it would be remiss if the renegotiated treaty did not reflect this.
- Recommend the use of shared colonies in normalising relations. (Athos V Research colony)

Sydraxian holdings in Baker
- When determining split should these be considered Federation or Ashalla pact territory?

ISC holdings in GBZ
- If we end up with a 50/50 split, the federation should not be 'paying' for ISC holdings in E4 (if any).

Non GBZ border
- Formalise the border through G0, G-1, G-2 or risk repeating this again.
 
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