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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Anime_Fan35 said:
Keyword a Decade. Yea no! I really don't see us waiting that long in universe to build a second HIP. Not with the various problems we have going on right now. I am now firmly of the position that we need to build the HIP soon. Like in the next few in game years. which means we have to make some very hard decisions soon. We are definitely waiting until after the Ambassador wave gets started though. Once that is done who knows but one way or another we need to get the second HIP started.
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I wasn't advocating anything, just giving context.
 
Anime_Fan35 said:
Keyword a Decade. Yea no! I really don't see us waiting that long in universe to build a second HIP. Not with the various problems we have going on right now. I am now firmly of the position that we need to build the HIP soon. Like in the next few in game years. which means we have to make some very hard decisions soon. We are definitely waiting until after the Ambassador wave gets started though. Once that is done who knows but one way or another we need to get the second HIP started.
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How many berths are we falling short of where we need to be in the next ten years? Are we in fact falling short at all?

If you can't answer that, I don't know how you can say we "need" another HIP based on anything other than gut feel.
 
Briefvoice said:
How many berths are we falling short of where we need to be in the next ten years? Are we in fact falling short at all?

If you can't answer that, I don't know how you can say we "need" another HIP based on anything other than gut feel.
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We're short about eight to twelve berths between 1mt and 3mt both. When the next refit wave comes around we'll still have income to use our existing production alongside the refit, extrapolating from our typical income gains. I prefer shorter class refit times, so that the refitting classes don't stack up. We're going to have what, ~60 ships in need of refit? Finishing those in 5 years per class, we'll need about 4 berths per class per year. Even if we stagger the refits 2 and 1 then we still could use about eight berths.

And yes, we have berths, but income is increasing at about a rate of a 1mt berth per year, often even faster.
 
Briefvoice said:
How many berths are we falling short of where we need to be in the next ten years? Are we in fact falling short at all?

If you can't answer that, I don't know how you can say we "need" another HIP based on anything other than gut feel.
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I didn't say anything about Berths. I was talking about the HIP only. We are fine for Berths AFAIK.
Steven Kodaly said:
I can very much see us waiting at least that long; heavy industrial parks are not cheap.
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I know they are not cheap. The PP price was pointed out a few posts earlier. As for why we need the HIP sooner rather than later. The federation has multiple problems on its hands which I pointed out in a previous post.
 
Anime_Fan35 said:
I didn't say anything about Berths. I was talking about the HIP only. We are fine for Berths AFAIK.
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What BV is saying is that the overall effect of the HIP is to multiply the number of berths we have because it reduces the time it takes a ship to build. If a ship that takes 4y to build takes 3 then over 12 years the HIP allows us to build 4 ships instead of 3. In effect it saves us 1/3 a berth.
 
Ato said:
By canon the second largest fleetyard is the Antares one. Though we seem not have discovered the antares system yet. Supposedly it is somewhere near our border with the Cardassians.
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iirc, the Antares Yards were built in the Antares nebula.

My head canon for why is it's the confluence of several major trade routes and has a few rogue planetoids to use as anchors to build the various yards around
 
Why do we keep building berths in Sol anyways? Is there another reason for it other than the HIP? The other shipyards need some more berths and we have been trying to spread the berths out around the federation.
 
Berths at Utopia Planetia have been considerably cheaper than berths elsewhere. We haven't even reached the point where that's no longer the case yet. The HIP increasing purchase efficiency farther is definitely a factor, but the pp cost is a bigger deal.
 
Yeah. If we really want to massively ramp up ship production, we need Utopia Planitia style yards to do it in. If we didn't have Utopia Planitia itself, we'd be desperately hard up for berth space and struggling to make PP budget ends meet even harder than we do now. Our cheap options for new explorer berths would have price tags of 40-50pp.

pheonix89 said:
Remember that any mega industrial project is going to have Starfleet and member law enforcement all over the place. And we saw in Master of Orion that even the syndicate couldn't hide large scale corruption from serious federation-wide scrutiny.
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For that matter, a giant Federation-funded project swarming with Federation-level investigators and oversight committees, but doing a lot of business with Orion corporations in the area, might be a good 'tarpit' for remaining corrupt organizations.

Anyone who still has the leverage to muscle the Orion government into accepting a corrupt deal related to the project, or any Orion officials who try to pull 'business as usual' shenanigans during the project, are doing the equivalent of jumping right into the gunsights of the same Federation investigative bodies that broke the Syndicate.
 
Nix said:
It looks like they are making good progress on fixing that corruption. Their efficiency increased by about 5% in the last two years. If I just plug in the numbers I get 32.24% and I got 26.88% two years ago, but if I assume their base income is 0.4 higher than accounted for two years ago (either due to more worlds counting as major or more trade partners than assumed) and that one of their three new cargo ships is needed for logistics I get exactly 25% two years ago and exactly 30% now. So Orion current base infrastructure income is 4.7. Assuming they keep the rate up they will break 50% efficiency within a decade, which would put them in company of the Risans, Laio and Tauni.
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Risa has crazy high industry because they are so chill and don't argue when they decide to build a cool thing.
 
Nix said:
Actually the largest contribution to Risa's GDP are passenger ships. So probably tourism. Their efficiency isn't especially high, the median is around 75-80%.
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I could have sworn their efficiency was crazy high...

Huh. Thanks from stopping me blithly creating misinformation :D
 
Steven Kodaly said:
Given how we periodically showcase our ship construction techniques, I suppose we could call a yard complex there a tourist attraction? If nothing else, it would be especially popular amongst spies. :V
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If we did that we wouldn't be able to use the ship to build anything other than civilian ships because secrecy.
 
If we put a UP-style yard in the Amarki home system, we have to name it Lakfakalle. The not-Abh using a different name for their giant piece of space infrastructure around their capital would be wrong.
 
Given that Lakfakalle was the name of de-facto Abh homeworld, I'm actually surprised the Amaraki homeworld isn't named after it in some fashion, or that at least they have a ship/colony in it's memory.
 
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