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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Okay, I'm admittedly dropping "take a third option" stuff like that because the whole point of Omelas as a plot device is that you can't fix it, it's inherently the way it is (a paradise powered by the misery of one neglected child) and presents you with a binary philosophical choice.

I accept the setting of that short story on the terms it's presented on, because otherwise it loses all value as a philosophical statement.
 
It's like that old short story 'The Cold Equations'

Kill the kid by throwing her out the airlock, or kill the colony that the ship carrying the medicine to.

But when you start to think about it, there are so many other options that are just never considered; how the hell did the kid on get on board in the first place if everything is calculated to the gram before take off; why is there no spare fuel for anything; is their absolutely nothing else that you can eject etc.
 
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Omake rewards:
@charysa for "A Computer By Any Other Name":
[ ][LICORI]Akayi Kirih will become a cadet at Starfleet Academy in four years (O)
[ ][LICORI]Akayi Kirih will enlist in Starfleet as an enlisted spacer in four years (E)
[ ][LICORI]Akayi Kirih will join Starfleet through the Starfleet Science Academy in four years (T)
***
Vote closed.
Tally?
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Jenny on Nov 15, 2017 at 12:47 AM, finished with 66 posts and 18 votes.
Click to expand...
 
I find the NetTally output is a little kinder for "pick the top X" votes with multiple tasks.

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 2941 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 73520-73567]
##### NetTally 1.9.9
Task: CARD
[x][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Kapit Frigate
No. of Votes: 14
pheonix89
aledeth
Ato
Briefvoice
chriswriter90
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Mr Tebbs
nocarename
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
[x][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report – Tolkor Capital
No. of Votes: 14
pheonix89
aledeth
Ato
Briefvoice
chriswriter90
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Mr Tebbs
nocarename
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
[x][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months
No. of Votes: 9
pheonix89
Briefvoice
Gingganz
Joshrand1982
Mr Tebbs
Night_stalker
nocarename
UberJJK
Winged One
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report
No. of Votes: 5
SynchronizedWritersBlock
aledeth
Goat
Jrin
Theunderbolt
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
No. of Votes: 4
Winged One
Ato
chriswriter90
Night_stalker
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 2
Winged One
Night_stalker
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: ROM
[x][ROM] Romulan Shipbuilding Report
No. of Votes: 14
pheonix89
aledeth
Ato
Briefvoice
chriswriter90
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Mr Tebbs
nocarename
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
[X][ROM] Romulan Ship Analysis Report - Khellian-class Heavy Warbird
No. of Votes: 2
Winged One
Night_stalker
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: KLI
[x][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 16
pheonix89
aledeth
Ato
Briefvoice
chriswriter90
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Mr Tebbs
Night_stalker
nocarename
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
Winged One
[x][KLI] Klingon Ship Analysis Report - K'Vort Cruiser
No. of Votes: 14
pheonix89
aledeth
Ato
Briefvoice
chriswriter90
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Mr Tebbs
nocarename
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
No. of Votes: 2
Winged One
Night_stalker
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: HOH
[x][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 15
pheonix89
aledeth
Briefvoice
charysa
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Mr Tebbs
Night_stalker
nocarename
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
Winged One
[x][HOH] Horizon Shipbuilding Report
No. of Votes: 14
pheonix89
aledeth
Ato
Briefvoice
chriswriter90
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Mr Tebbs
nocarename
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Scientist-class science cruiser
No. of Votes: 3
Winged One
charysa
Night_stalker
[X][HOH] Horizon Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 1
Ato
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Harmony of Horizon Solace Battlecruiser
No. of Votes: 1
chriswriter90
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: ISC
[X][ISC] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 9
Winged One
aledeth
Gingganz
Goat
Jrin
Night_stalker
nocarename
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
[x][ISC] Ship Analysis Report – Guardian Cruisers
No. of Votes: 5
pheonix89
Briefvoice
Joshrand1982
Mr Tebbs
UberJJK
[x][ISC] Ship Analysis Report – Pathfinder Capital
No. of Votes: 1
Ato
[X][ISC] ISC Relations with the Horizon
No. of Votes: 1
charysa
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: REPORT
[x][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
No. of Votes: 18
pheonix89
aledeth
Ato
Briefvoice
charysa
chriswriter90
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Mr Tebbs
Night_stalker
nocarename
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
Winged One
[x][REPORT] Strengths/weaknesses of Imelak bio-technology
No. of Votes: 17
pheonix89
aledeth
Briefvoice
charysa
chriswriter90
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Mr Tebbs
Night_stalker
nocarename
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
Winged One
[x][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
No. of Votes: 16
pheonix89
aledeth
Ato
Briefvoice
charysa
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Mr Tebbs
Night_stalker
nocarename
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
Winged One
[x][REPORT] Hishmeri Septs Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 16
pheonix89
aledeth
Briefvoice
charysa
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Mr Tebbs
Night_stalker
nocarename
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
Winged One
[x][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 14
pheonix89
aledeth
Ato
Briefvoice
chriswriter90
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
nocarename
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
[x][REPORT] Imelak Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 13
pheonix89
aledeth
Briefvoice
charysa
Gingganz
Goat
Joshrand1982
Jrin
nocarename
Simon_Jester
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
UberJJK
[X][REPORT] Klingon Empire War Weariness
No. of Votes: 3
Winged One
Mr Tebbs
Night_stalker
[X][REPORT] Romulan Empire War Weariness
No. of Votes: 3
Winged One
Mr Tebbs
Night_stalker
[x][REPORT] Cardassian Logistics and Deployment Requirements
No. of Votes: 1
Ato
[X][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
Ato
[X][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser
No. of Votes: 1
Ato
[X][REPORT] Ittick-ka General Situation
No. of Votes: 1
Jrin
[X][REPORT] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
chriswriter90
[X][REPORT] Report on the new Romulan agencies pushing out the Tal Shiar.
No. of Votes: 1
chriswriter90
[X][REPORT] Report on reasons behind Tauni separatist groups.
No. of Votes: 1
chriswriter90
[X][REPORT] Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
No. of Votes: 1
chriswriter90
Total No. of Voters: 18
 
Manually summarizing that:

3 Cardassian
[x][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Kapit Frigate
[x][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report – Tolkor Capital
[x][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months

1 Romulan
[x][ROM] Romulan Shipbuilding Report

2 Klingon
[x][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[x][KLI] Klingon Ship Analysis Report - K'Vort Cruiser

2 Horizon
[x][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[x][HOH] Horizon Shipbuilding Report

1 ISC
[x][ISC] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report

6 General
[x][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
[x][REPORT] Strengths/weaknesses of Imelak bio-technology
[x][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[x][REPORT] Hishmeri Septs Diplomatic Posture Report
[x][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
[x][REPORT] Imelak Fleet Strength Report
 
Simon_Jester said:
Okay, I'm admittedly dropping "take a third option" stuff like that because the whole point of Omelas as a plot device is that you can't fix it, it's inherently the way it is (a paradise powered by the misery of one neglected child) and presents you with a binary philosophical choice.

I accept the setting of that short story on the terms it's presented on, because otherwise it loses all value as a philosophical statement.
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This is Star Trek, though, not the short story.
 
Winged One said:
This is Star Trek, though, not the short story.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, and you are entirely missing my point if you don't bear in mind that I am using the short story to illustrate a point about the moral character of an individual.

Which it is obviously completely impossible to do, if we do not accept the premise of the short story briefly, as a device for examining what they would do if given a simple binary choice.

The entire point of the story is to ask "How much of the welfare of the many does it take, to outweigh the welfare of an innocent individual that is sacrificed? Should you be willing to live on those terms?" Trying to take a third option defeats the purpose of asking the question, without providing an insight of corresponding value.

Because the choice to remain in Omelas and 'fight for change' is in many ways not even difficult. There is little or no sacrifice involved, given that Omelas is a peaceful city and its inhabitants seem unlikely to violently defend the status quo. On the other hand, they're also unlikely to just up and let you change things, so... basically it reduces to "decide to live in Omelas, but get to feel like you're not complicit in the sacrifice that makes Omelas so nice for you to live in."

Goat said:
It's like that old short story 'The Cold Equations'

Kill the kid by throwing her out the airlock, or kill the colony that the ship carrying the medicine to.

But when you start to think about it, there are so many other options that are just never considered; how the hell did the kid on get on board in the first place if everything is calculated to the gram before take off; why is there no spare fuel for anything; is their absolutely nothing else that you can eject etc.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The thing is, The Cold Equations fails realism in that there are a lot of ways to 'fix fic' the story with only a few minutes' worth of thought, or to explain why the premise is fundamentally flawed. Because the story is entirely about describing a mechanism for forcing a philosophically difficult moral choice, and this mechanism is flawed. Also because the story actually WAS written with someone breathing down the author's neck demanding that it reinforce the "correct" conclusion (namely the editor). It shows.

The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas is different. Firstly, the story is not about describing an elaborate mechanism that forces a difficult moral choice. As I recall, we are not told why the continued prosperity of Omelas requires one child to be kept in constant neglect and misery. There is no Rube Goldberg contraption of a plot in place for us to pick apart. You are simply asked "Here is a wonderful city where everything is magnificent, and all this magnificence is caused by the neglected misery of a single child. Knowing this, are you content to live here?"

Furthermore, the Omelas story does not 'demand' or preach that one conclusion or the other is inherently right. It is, in this respect, a far better example of a story that presents a philosophical quandary. As such, I choose to respect the story on Le Guin's own terms, where I do not respect The Cold Equations on John Campbell's terms.

[I attribute the plot of The Cold Equations to Campbell the editor, not Godwin the author, if only because Campbell kept sending back the story until Godwin 'wrote the ending right.' ]
 
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Simon_Jester said:
I accept the setting of that short story on the terms it's presented on, because otherwise it loses all value as a philosophical statement.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The problem is it doesn't really have value as a philosophical statement in the first place. This long digression you've written about mechanisms depends on the idea that describing or not describing the mechanism creates the flaw. But the flaw does not exist in the mechanism. It exists in treating humans as spherical objects in a frictionless vacuum, in gross simplification of choice and morality. Philosophy is many things, but it is not simple. This is why The Cold Equations has such an elaborate setup to pick apart in the first place; this is why The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas isn't a meaningful statement on philosophy.

Someone will eventually kill the child and watch Omelas burn, and find it good. There are several reasons why it could be so. Some of them even relate to the existence of the child in the first place. But that is not dreamt of in the story's philosophy.
 
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I would argue that the effective and successful exercise of philosophy requires the ability to ask simple questions, even if they are contrived.

Making up excuses to not address these questions is not a superior form of philosophy, it is simply a decision not to engage in philosophy. Which isn't wrong... but it's kind of pointless to tell people they're wrong about a game one has already decided not to play.
 
anon_user said:
Omake rewards:
@charysa for "A Computer By Any Other Name":
[ ][LICORI]Akayi Kirih will become a cadet at Starfleet Academy in four years (O)
[ ][LICORI]Akayi Kirih will enlist in Starfleet as an enlisted spacer in four years (E)
[ ][LICORI]Akayi Kirih will join Starfleet through the Starfleet Science Academy in four years (T)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hm... Kirih isn't really officer material, so not O. Between the other two, he could do well in either. Given his personality, though, he'll probably go for the faster option. Couple that with extreme youth, that probably ends up...

[X][LICORI]Akayi Kirih will enlist in Starfleet as an enlisted spacer in four years (E)
 
charysa said:
Hm... Kirih isn't really officer material, so not O. Between the other two, he could do well in either. Given his personality, though, he'll probably go for the faster option. Couple that with extreme youth, that probably ends up...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He is 12 maybe 13 which is a little young to make that determination. It would be reasonable to expect him to mature a fair amount over the next 4 years or so. He might turn out to be officer material after all he is officialy a squire and as such in a fuedal society would be expected to be knighted and function as an officer in fuedal style armies.
 
Bonvivant said:
He is 12 maybe 13 which is a little young to make that determination. It would be reasonable to expect him to mature a fair amount over the next 4 years or so. He might turn out to be officer material after all he is officialy a squire and as such in a fuedal society would be expected to be knighted and function as an officer in fuedal style armies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I guess people haven't caught on yet, but most of my OCs are based on characters from...another media, which I'm loosely basing their characterization on. So I have a vague idea of what Kirih is going to be like at age 16-17ish. (There is also a non-zero chance he might try to enlist earlier and lie about his age.)

Also, just because he starts as an enlisted doesn't mean he might not get "motivated" into much later going back and doing some officer Academy classes. It depends on how his early assignments shake out and which other characters he might come across. I'm going to leave that part up to the vagaries of fate the dice.
 
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I'm working on something myself but without actual events I have to keep everything reasonably low key.
 
charysa said:
I have another one that's mostly written but it takes place in like 2321.Q3/Q4 so... *shrugs*
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Tries to think what is due then. Ambassador launch time?

A comment: went and looked at the ship build spreadsheet to confirm that was the right time period I was remembering. It (at the time of writing) has 6 Ambassadors queued up to build at UP in 2321Q4. So I went to the Fleet tab to see what Starfleet would look when that wave finishes in 2325Q3 (assumes we follow the current build plan exactly and take no losses - ie not happening...)

8 Ambassador
21 Excelsior-A

18 Renaissance
8 Constellation-A
7 Constitution-B
1 Constitution-A

1 Next Gen Frigate
12 Kepler
18 Centaur-B
14 Miranda-A
4 Oberth
 
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