I don't think it's worth finishing Romulan Tactical Analysis I since conflict with the Star Empire is not even remotely on the horizon. If tensions rise, I think we'll have enough time to go back and finish it. The only reason I supported staying on last turn was for the increased Intelligence, and we've got that. Put them straight to valuable Offensive Doctrine research (but which one?).
I don't want to commit to another doctrine family before we know more about the first one. We might want to put Games & Planning on FA Cardassians and both Tiger Team and Lathriss on Lone Ranger projects if the boni are good enough. The Tactical Analysis bonus is unlikely to come into play any time soon, but who knows, and it's always nice to finish a tech.
 
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@OneirosTheWriter, I'm liking the research revamp so far. Initial thoughts:

1) The two-layer research system with research categories and multiple research techs within categories with their own points does introduce issues that I didn't anticipate, which pheonix89 points out (more on this later).

2) I don't like the naming of "Turn of the Century" and "Early 24th Century" because that places a definitive time aspect to the research. There's no guarantee that we'll have researched e.g. Turn of the Century Personal Tech until decades from now (although we obviously should), so it's no longer actually "turn of the century".

So I think you should stick with something that's time-neutral. I can't think of any fancy naming that wouldn't also be confusing - hopefully someone has a better idea. You could always default to the boring "Tier 1", "Tier 2", etc. monikers.

3) Also how many generic research teams are we going to be given, or are they something that need to bought with PP? Or perhaps better, could they be bought with RP, since we may need another RP sink?

edit: 4) I really like the multiple preferences per non-generic team. Could eventually have teams that still have 1 preference (cheap) or 3+ preferences (expensive).

What happens to oveflow? If we research T1 Escort tech, do all the extra points go into the equicalent T2 tech?

How about if we partly finish a tier? Say we research T1 explorers this turn and the inspiration bonus comes up Hull Design. That leaves with one of the combat techs and both the engineering techs from T1 finished. Would T2 explorer Engineering be unlocked next turn?

And do we have to finish every tech in a tier to move on? You've got tech cost gaps as big as a whole OOM in places - if we have to finish Escort Size I for 100 points to get at the next tier of Escort - Science when the rest tops out at 20, we'll just never get that second tier.

And some thoughts.

It might be worth having some sort of sidebleed or passive gain mechanic to cause very slow background progress in techs we aren't favoring, to reflect developments outside our control or focus. Something like non-active research teams causing some limited progress in random areas they specialize in that no one is working on, or a chance of random 1 point gains in inactive areas, or something.

Yeah, this requires more thought. And I don't want to throw out the existing research mechanics of leveling up all techs within a category. Also don't want to complicate this more than necessary by introducing new passive gain stuff, which would also be an absolute PITA to update for the QM.


So here's my proposal:

a) When choosing a particular research category of tier N, one randomly picked unfinished tech of a lower tier related research categories is also leveled up. The random +5 bonus can also hit that randomly picked unfinished tech.

b) The next tier research category is unlocked if at least one tech within the chosen research category has been completely researched. If this is a proper tech tree, than only research categories related to the that chosen category are unlocked (e.g. early 24th century short sensors -> middle 24th century short sensors).

This should both introduce tension between researching between the higher and lower tiers, while allowing lower tiers to be fully researched over time without requiring too much "waste".


Example 1:

2300s Xenopsychology has 1 tech that is fully researched, and others around the half way point. So early 24th century xenopsychology, affiliates research, and external diplomacy all unlock, since they all have 2300s xenopsychology as a prereq.

Now, players can choose to assign a team to either 2300s xenopsychology or one of the early 24th century categories.

If a team is assigned to 2300s xenopsychology, it's researched as normal, but it's a bit less optimal because 1 tech is already fully researched.

If a team is assigned to, say, early 24th century xenopsychology, then that is researched as normal, AND one randomly picked unfinished tech in 2300s xenopsychology is also researched. The list of techs eligible for the +5 bonus includes that randomly picked unfinished tech.

In this particular case, it's probably more optimal to continue researching 2300s xenopsychology.


Example 2:

It's now a couple years later, and 2300s Xenopsychology is nearly completely researched, except 1 tech due to bad luck.

If a team is assigned to 2300s xenopsychology, only that 1 tech is leveled up.

If a team is assigned to early 24th century xenopsychology (or a sibling tech), then that is researched as normal, AND that single 2300s xenopsychology tech is also leveled up.

Clearly, the more optimal choice here is researching early 24th century xenopsychology.
 
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The big problem with that plan is that it leaves techs "orphaned" and incomplete. So far the only time this happened was with biophage research (we developed a few specialist weapons against the biophage that were never fielded). It'd be more problematic if it happens in, say, warp core design.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just say that if a team is researching an almost-finished field, the points "roll over" into logical areas in the next field somehow? I mean, it doesn't make sense that if there's only one month left of work on "turn of the century xenopsych," the tech team spends the next eleven months doing nothing instead of starting work on "early 24th century xenopsych."
 
2) I don't like the naming of "Turn of the Century" and "Early 24th Century" because that places a definitive time aspect to the research. There's no guarantee that we'll have researched e.g. Turn of the Century Personal Tech until decades from now (although we obviously should), so it's no longer actually "turn of the century".

On the other hand, it's nice for giving us a sense of where we are compared to canon and (perhaps more importantly) the assumed "standard" for major powers. We know if we're ahead or falling behind and where our ships or other systems are likely to be inferior/superior to other ships/systems.
 
The big problem with that plan is that it leaves techs "orphaned" and incomplete. So far the only time this happened was with biophage research (we developed a few specialist weapons against the biophage that were never fielded). It'd be more problematic if it happens in, say, warp core design.

No, the lower tier techs would eventually get researched from random lower tier tech picking in my proposal.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just say that if a team is researching an almost-finished field, the points "roll over" into logical areas in the next field somehow? I mean, it doesn't make sense that if there's only one month left of work on "turn of the century xenopsych," the tech team spends the next eleven months doing nothing instead of starting work on "early 24th century xenopsych."

That was my initial thought, but it gets complicated by the very nature of a branching and tiered tech tree.

If we choose 2300s xenopsychology, which early 24th century category is rolled over into? Do vote plans now have to do something like "2300s xenopsychology, rollover into early 24th century external diplomacy"?

How does the roll over work - if a couple techs just become fully researched and there's still leftover points, which techs in the 24th century category are chosen to apply these leftover points? Do the already fully researched techs still generate leftover points? if chosen randomly, could lead to complicated rolling to figure out which techs to apply leftover points to.

Do we even allow directly assigning to any early 24th century category before all of 2300s xenopsychology is fully researched?

edit: This isn't a completely new problem. It's also unclear how rollover would've worked for 49 / 50 Lone Ranger Doctrine. Single tech categories are just problematic.

On the other hand, it's nice for giving us a sense of where we are compared to canon and (perhaps more importantly) the assumed "standard" for major powers. We know if we're ahead or falling behind and where our ships or other systems are likely to be inferior/superior to other ships/systems.

I don't think that requires explicitly naming the categories with time labels. Could also easily be done by a note like: "Tier 1 corresponds to around 2300s canon, tier 2 is around 2310s canon", etc.
 
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So given the likely winner of the current vote, take a look at this proposed build plan. I'm not going to include the resources this time around; enough to say that it looks somewhat okay as long as we continue to increase resources at about the rate we have in the past. (And if we run short on crew, we need to be prepared to mothball Mirandas for these far superior ships.)



My Key;
CER = Centaur Refit
CEA = Centaur-A Build
OB = Oberth
CLR = Constellation Refit
CNB = Constitution-B
EX = Excelsior
EX4EX = Excelsior gets an Explorer Crew during crew deduct.
RNP = Renaissance Prototype
RN = Renaissance

Main features:
Grayed out are builds we've already committed to.
  • 13 Excelsiors Built in the time frame shown
  • 5 Centaur-A and refitting the two Centaurs we already have in the time frame shown
  • 10 Constitution-B built before Renaissance start building
  • 1 Constellation refit done per year, so as to avoid pulling too many out of service at once.
  • 4 Oberths built

2317 Fleet:
  • 19 Excelsiors (7 in Exploration Corps, 12 assigned to key systems/zones)
  • 1 Constitution-A
  • 10 Constitution-B
  • 6 Constellation-A
  • 2 Constellation
  • 1 Renaissance (prototype)
  • 8 Oberths
  • 7 Centaur-A
  • 11 Mirandas
Total Combat = 266 (likely discounted to 247 with Lone Ranger doctrine)
Total Defense = 255
Total Science = 226

And yes, this is doable in just ten years with some medium-optimistic assumption about continuing resource growth.
 
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And yes, this is doable in just ten years with some medium-optimistic assumption about continuing resource growth. Considering our current combat cap is 230, we might well be having to mothball Mirandas by this point to stay under (which would also free up crew, so fine).
Our current cap is 270 and I expect that to continue to rise as we add members (though we might lose the boost from high threat).
 
I think we should slow down Excelsior production in favor of expanding berths and small ships a little, since Excelsior pruduction is seriously starting to impact our ability to get other ships done in a timely manner
 
So given the likely winner of the current vote, take a look at this proposed build plan. I'm not going to include the resources this time around; enough to say that it looks somewhat okay as long as we continue to increase resources at about the rate we have in the past. (And if we run short on crew, we need to be prepared to mothball Mirandas for these far superior ships.)
Your use of UP 3m t berth A for 1m t designs indicates to me that we want at least one more small berth. Given that buying berths seems to increase the cost of buying berths (at the same yard), and that we have a berth construction time decrease that ends in 2311[1], we should probably get them in bulk before then. Personally, I want to get at least four small berths at either the Andor or Tellar yard and two 2m t berths at UP. This justifies getting another Escort Design Team from which ever yard gets chosen for the small berths, and would give us a total of 19 berths. The Ambassador Project should enable us to get larger berths – and if we are lucky would give one for free – which would bring us up to an even 20.

[1] Unless this went away?
 
There's a lot to be said for 1.5 or two million ton berths; it'd give us "room to grow" if we want to construct an escort or cruiser of over a million tons some time in the 2320s or '30s. Given that "medium cruisers" in that range have enjoyed repeated bouts of popularity, that seems likely.
 
Kimberley Pragur sat still, watching the sun ooze into the sky above the mountains like an eggyolk squeezed from a shell. She welcomed the light and warmth as it fell on her skin, but already felt herself missing what came before. She had never liked the darkness, or the night, and now she outright feared it. And yet, mixed with that fear was a fretful, nameless longing.


Yeeeeaaaahhhhhhhh. If this wasn't written after a nine hour marathon session of Sunless Sea I'll eat my hat.
 
There's a lot to be said for 1.5 or two million ton berths; it'd give us "room to grow" if we want to construct an escort or cruiser of over a million tons some time in the 2320s or '30s. Given that "medium cruisers" in that range have enjoyed repeated bouts of popularity, that seems likely.
I generally agree, but given how cheap 1mt berths are at Andoria and Tellar right now relative to San Francisco and 40 Eridani it seems there is a political desire for them. Maybe build 1 each, but otherwise only larger berths. Low priority though, since we are more resource limited than by berths.
 
Unless tensions escalate even more, I'd rather stabilize at 5 to 6 Constitution B types as a limited ship for higher risk sectors, and keep full up with the Excelsiors. Then we can reassess our ship mix when the Renaissance comes online.

In particular, I want to see what starts coming out of our lone ranger research before we slow Excelsior or Explorer class ships in general.
 
Sounds good. All my plans involve cloning Khan Noonien Singh, placing him in a obsolete shuttle and letting it drift into Cardassian/Romulan/Klingon space. Then just sit back and watch the fireworks.
 
So given the likely winner of the current vote, take a look at this proposed build plan. I'm not going to include the resources this time around; enough to say that it looks somewhat okay as long as we continue to increase resources at about the rate we have in the past. (And if we run short on crew, we need to be prepared to mothball Mirandas for these far superior ships.)

Looks good overall. It's top heavy with explorer, but that should eventually get addressed with Renaissance, and we should start investing in getting more smaller berths to get more escorts out.

Also, more berths is going to make that spreadsheet unwieldy. You should consider transposing the table so that year is the column.
 
Honestly, going explorer-heavy is supported by our doctrine choices, and will hopefully not backfire too badly as long as we only have serious threats on one frontier.

Plus, the Excelsior-class is the one type of ship we can put on the Cardassian frontier without having to worry it will get picked off easily by the Cardies. Even a ConnieBee (thank you @AKuz) or a Centaur-B would be in danger under those conditions.
 
Honestly, going explorer-heavy is supported by our doctrine choices, and will hopefully not backfire too badly as long as we only have serious threats on one frontier.

Plus, the Excelsior-class is the one type of ship we can put on the Cardassian frontier without having to worry it will get picked off easily by the Cardies. Even a ConnieBee (thank you @AKuz) or a Centaur-B would be in danger under those conditions.

Ideally, we'll have enough ships to have our flimsier ones patrol in pairs. One Constitution doesn't pose much threat, but one ConnieBee and a couple Centaur makes a good rapid response fleet.
 
Ideally, we'll have enough ships to have our flimsier ones patrol in pairs. One Constitution doesn't pose much threat, but one ConnieBee and a couple Centaur makes a good rapid response fleet.

Even that is only in the worst case scenario of us needing to go all out on the CBZ. Ideally, the cardassians only ever get to see our smaller ships when they're escorting an Excelsior.
 
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Connies are big and tough enough that we're unlikely to unduly hurt ourselves by putting them out there alone, now that they know we have smaller ships. I mean, we know THEY have ships smaller than their cruiser designs, and I'm sure the Cardassians operate at least some of them (like that science vessel) in the border zone.
 
Connies are big and tough enough that we're unlikely to unduly hurt ourselves by putting them out there alone, now that they know we have smaller ships. I mean, we know THEY have ships smaller than their cruiser designs, and I'm sure the Cardassians operate at least some of them (like that science vessel) in the border zone.

We also know they have at least one ship class bigger than the Jaldun, though they haven't let us get a close look at one. I'd avoid sending lone Connies into the area until we can do a proper threat assessment on the big guys.

The unfortunate truth is that destroying a lone ship and then going "who, me?" when questioned about it is their shtick, not ours.
 
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