[X][NASH] Withdraw from the Enio subsector, destroying the mines as you leave them
We do not need to be squatting on the border of a starbase. That's asking raiding parties to continually hit Enio locations, able to retreat back to their starbase the moment our fleet menaces them. We certainly don't fare exploit those mines. Trying to hold Enio would be overextending ourselves.
[X][LIGHT] Change Civilian Colony Building from Red Light to Yellow Light in "internal" subsectors bordered by other controlled or non-GBZ subsectors (currently Miele and Camden)
You accused others of being inconsistent before, but you are definitely inconsistent with your own vote here. If we are abandoning the Enio subsector there is no way Camden is safe. We already know that Enio makes for a good base to lauch raids deep into Camden because they already did that. Add to that that the badlands are apparently on our side of Enio, so the other side of Enio is inherently far more defensible as a frontier, because there is no no convenient astronomical object allowing raiders to slip through.
As for inviting them to keep hitting Enio with raids, that's the best thing that could happen to us. Weak attacks against predictable locations are just about the easiest thing to defend against. The problem with raids is being attacked somewhere you don't expect, or in one of many possible places you weakly expect.
[X][NASH] Order Rear Admiral ka'Sharren to fortify subsector Enio and aim to hold. You promise additional engineering resources.
[X][LIGHT] Change Civilian Colony Building to Yellow Light in Miele subsector, automatically change to yellow light in any subsector if all adjacent GBZ subsectors are fully explored, fortified and uncontested.
[X][PRIORITY] Push the Indorians to scout and fortify systems flanking Lapycorias with outposts and upgraded sensors.
[X][SULU] Mark of Fiiral (Gain +10pp)
[X][LAIO] Endorse the transfer (-10pp)
[X][BETA] Hold until the Centaur-B is available
[X][BASE] Leas Akaam
[X][CAL] Pattern B
Refit to Excelsior-A of USS Atuin (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2014) to commence at San Francisco Fleet Yards Berth A in 2319.Q1
One Cargo Ship to commence at Oreasa Starfleet Yards Berth 2 in 2319.Q3
Refit to Excelsior-A of USS S'harien (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2008) to commence at Ana Font Berth A in 2319.Q1
One Renaissance-class (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2631) to commence at Ana Font Berth 2 in 2319.Q2
Refit to Constellation-A of USS Stalwart (Starfleet Build Order NCC-1807) to commence at Intazzi Shipyard Berth 1 in 2319.Q2
One Cargo Ship to commence at Intazzi Shipyard Berth 2 in 2319.Q2
Two Centaur-A-class (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2130, NCC-2131) to commence at Utopia Planitia Berth Z, Y in 2319.Q4
Two Renaissance-class (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2629, NCC-2630) to commence at Utopia Planitia Berth 1, 2 in 2319.Q4
Three Centaur-A-class (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2132, NCC-2133, NCC-2134) to commence at Utopia Planitia Berth 3,4,5 in 2319.Q2
Member World Coordination Division - Member and Affiliate Shipbuilding Update
Registry Updates:
NCC-44xx - Caldonian ships
The Apiata have finished establishing the outpost at Priasta, and plan to position one Little Queenship squadron there at all available times. With this facility, it will become easier to intercept wolf packs moving across the Gulf. However, this would work in reverse as well, so it will be an important system to hold.
The Indorians have presented proposals on fortification of nearby systems to their Congress, and outposts have been approved for construction at Timotti, to Lapycorias' coreward side, and Belcora, to the tailward side. These defences should be in place by the end of the year. Beclora already has a minor civilian colony, which somewhat complicates it's use as a speed-bump system, however.
The Rigellians have undertaken construction of an Anacail-class frigate, otherwise known as the Amarkian Heavy Frigate, their next-generation vanguard ship. This is considered a reasonably unconventional move by both sides, as the Amarkians have never previously been open to licensing their ships. However the success Betazed is having with spreading the Patroller-A design apparently prompted a change in attitude. For the Rigellians, it is something of a change in philosophy, but also provides a much more robust performance in the opening stages of battle than the Oda-Gach customs cutter.
[X][NASH] Order Rear Admiral ka'Sharren to fortify subsector Enio and aim to hold. You promise additional engineering resources.
[X][LIGHT] Change Civilian Colony Building to Green Light in Miele subsector, automatically change to Green Light in any subsector if all adjacent GBZ subsectors are fully explored, fortified and uncontested.
[X][LIGHT] All Member World - Fleet Unit GBZ Access - Green Light
All Member World - Auxiliary GBZ Access - Green Light
Rationale here is that we should be pulling in every member world unit that we can. Greenlighting everyone means that all the member worlds can start setting up mining colonies and exploring know subsectors for resources. This will strengthen the Federation by allowing us to quickly exploit GBZ resources .
[X][NASH] Order Rear Admiral ka'Sharren to fortify subsector Enio and aim to hold. You promise additional engineering resources.
[X][LIGHT] Change Civilian Colony Building to Green Light in Miele subsector, automatically change to Green Light in any subsector if all adjacent GBZ subsectors are fully explored, fortified and uncontested.
[X][LIGHT] All Member World - Fleet Unit GBZ Access - Green Light
All Member World - Auxiliary GBZ Access - Green Light
Rationale here is that we should be pulling in every member world unit that we can. Greenlighting everyone means that all the member worlds can start setting up mining colonies and exploring know subsectors for resources. This will strengthen the Federation by allowing us to quickly exploit GBZ resources .
This strikes me as a well thought out but high-risk plan. I am...honestly a bit leery of how boldly you're jumping into this, but I don't have an equally well put together 'this is still an active warzone and we need to guard against a Counterpush flexibly rather than doubling down on forward defense' plan.
Our GBZ-relevant goals for the campaign were simple: We punch the Cardies in the nose to discourage them from fucking with us, and we disrupt or destroy their forward infrastructure to physically prevent them from fucking with us. We got what we came for in that regard.
Now how do we use that? Well, the Cardies aren't going to be fucking with us as long as we don't slip up and give them any new opportunities and renew their motivation.
First, we could continue our hyper-aggressive campaign into an equally aggressive strategic posture, with a bastion at Enio preventing the Cardassians from sweeping around to hit our colonies, permitting us to expand rapidly and without much worry. Like, we'd want to build a starbase there, that level of fortification. @SynchronizedWritersBlock, @Briefvoice, you're the people with the numbers. How much would it cost to guarantee that the Cardassians have neither the motivation nor the ability to take Enio back? What would the diversion of engineering teams do to our rate of expansion in the GBZ? Most importantly, is that assumption correct that this would prevent the Cardassians from hitting our colonies?
Alternatively, we could fall back and use our victory the way we'd intended - build up in the GBZ as much as practicable, the bar for "without giving the Cardassians tasty-looking targets" having been raised to give us significantly more flexibility and allowable scope in what we can do. I believe this to be by far the safer (lower-variance) option.
Right now, absent a concrete tactical/strategic analysis of fortifying Enio, I strongly prefer the safe option. Making risk-reward plays when you don't know what the risks or rewards is is dumb.
[x][NASH] Withdraw from the Enio subsector, destroying the mines as you leave them
[X][LIGHT] Change Civilian Colony Building to Green Light in Miele subsector, automatically change to Green Light in any subsector if all adjacent GBZ subsectors are fully explored, fortified and uncontested.
[X][LIGHT] All Member World - Fleet Unit GBZ Access - Green Light
[X][LIGHT] All Member World - Auxiliary GBZ Access - Green Light
Refit to Excelsior-A of USS Atuin (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2014) to commence at San Francisco Fleet Yards Berth A in 2319.Q1
One Cargo Ship to commence at Oreasa Starfleet Yards Berth 2 in 2319.Q3
Refit to Excelsior-A of USS S'harien (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2008) to commence at Ana Font Berth A in 2319.Q1
Refit to Constellation-A of USS Stalwart (Starfleet Build Order NCC-1807) to commence at Intazzi Shipyard Berth 1 in 2319.Q2
One Cargo Ship to commence at Intazzi Shipyard Berth 2 in 2319.Q2
Two Centaur-A-class (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2129, NCC-2130) to commence at Utopia Planitia Berth Z, Y in 2319.Q4
Two Renaissance-class (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2629, NCC-2630) to commence at Utopia Planitia Berth 1, 2 in 2319.Q4
Three Centaur-A-class (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2131, NCC-2132, NCC-2133) to commence at Utopia Planitia Berth 3,4,5 in 2319.Q2
One Comfort-class (Starfleet Build Order NCC-3502) to commence at Lasieth Craft Yards Berth 1 in 2318.Q1
@Nix I would go ahead and greenlight expansion in Miele. Yellow lighting is not more advantageous than Green, because while it does cover us a bit if a colony gets hit, politicians will still be furious if we let a civilian colony get attacked. Greenlighting at least means we put our full effort behind agreement and will get us more PP rewards, while I don't think yellow lighting will actually save us from the downside (the PP hit if colonies are attacked). Yellow lighting is just weasel words for "go ahead but we aren't responsible" and, welp, we are responsible like it or no.
@Briefvoice You must not like Border Zones, is what I'm hearing from you. Because Enio is basically a Border Zone. This is where we hunker down and build scan relays and basically use the area the deny the enemy easy Wolfpack access to the other sectors. We know that destroying close bases makes Wolfpacking much harder, so a buffer zone will actually help us more than hinder. If we could draw a line through G1-4 and use those as our Border Zones, I'd be all for it.
This strikes me as a well thought out but high-risk plan. I am...honestly a bit leery of how boldly you're jumping into this, but I don't have an equally well put together 'this is still an active warzone and we need to guard against a Counterpush flexibly rather than doubling down on forward defense' plan.
It's high risk, but the GBZ is itself high risk. If we're going to drop a large percentage of our fleet there and be willing to fight seriously to defend it we may as well exploit it. Pulling in as many member world assets as possible gives us more ships to defend the Zone with. Getting them to build mining colonies everywhere means those resources get turned into ships at home, that can then be used to defend the Federation. Greenlighting limited civilian colony expansion means people, and thus governments will care about the GBZ, which makes enforcing our mandate that much easier.
We're an industrial powerhouse with the resources of dozens of species. It's time to act like one.
[x][NASH] Withdraw from the Enio subsector, destroying the mines as you leave them
We drew down a bit from the big push in the GBZ and the Cardassians are moving in ships freed from the end of their ear on the other front. No reason to overextend, and destroying the colonies forces them to rebuild. We hit them harder and for more loses then we took so let's keep the win.
Well I wasn't expecting to keep 45 Gabriel but was a little dispointed that we didn't get any concessions from the Caradsians in withdrawing from there.
The question is what message do you want to send to the Cardasians. If you withdraw from Enio subsector then your saying that any attacks on Federation assets in GBZ will merely result in the lose of ships and crew if they fail but no permanant territory loss and if they succeed then the Cardasians gain territory and additional resources. I really don't think thats a good message to send to the Cardasians at all.
@Nix I would go ahead and greenlight expansion in Miele. Yellow lighting is not more advantageous than Green, because while it does cover us a bit if a colony gets hit, politicians will still be furious if we let a civilian colony get attacked. Greenlighting at least means we put our full effort behind agreement and will get us more PP rewards, while I don't think yellow lighting will actually save us from the downside (the PP hit if colonies are attacked). Yellow lighting is just weasel words for "go ahead but we aren't responsible" and, welp, we are responsible like it or no.
I think of yellow light in this case as "we will do our best to protect you but can't guarantee complete safety, so you should at least consider the risk before going ahead, don't do it if you are risk averse". I'm not particularly opposed to going straight to green light for Miele specifically but I'm not going to vote for it myself. I'd prefer to test the waters for a while first.
I did a quick search for my own posts using the words "consistent" and "inconsistent" and I couldn't find anything... you sure you aren't thinking of someone else? I think consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
If we are abandoning the Enio subsector there is no way Camden is safe. We already know that Enio makes for a good base to lauch raids deep into Camden because they already did that. Add to that that the badlands are apparently on our side of Enio, so the other side of Enio is inherently far more defensible as a frontier, because there is no no convenient astronomical object allowing raiders to slip through.
Well I wasn't expecting to keep 45 Gabriel but was a little dispointed that we didn't get any concessions from the Caradsians in withdrawing from there.
The question is what message do you want to send to the Cardasians. If you withdraw from Enio subsector then your saying that any attacks on Federation assets in GBZ will merely result in the lose of ships and crew if they fail but no permanant territory loss and if they succeed then the Cardasians gain territory and additional resources. I really don't think thats a good message to send to the Cardasians at all.
I think "sending a message" is usually a poor idea to base your military strategy around. If we want to send the Carassians a message, we have their comm codes. Do what you think makes sense in terms of the territory we can reasonably hold, but don't do it because you're worried what the Cardassians will think about it.
[X][NASH] Hold as practicable, but withdraw if the Cardassians push
[X][LIGHT] Change Civilian Colony Building to Green Light in Miele subsector, automatically change to Yellow Light in any subsector if all adjacent GBZ subsectors are fully explored, fortified and uncontested. Automatically change Mining Colony Building to green light in any subsector if all adjacent GBZ subsectors are fully explored, fortified and uncontested.
[X][LIGHT] Member Worlds with Colonies in GBZ - Fleet Unit GBZ Access - Green Light
[X][LIGHT] Member World with Colonies in GBZ - Auxiliary GBZ Access - Green Light
I did a quick search for my own posts using the words "consistent" and "inconsistent" and I couldn't find anything... you sure you aren't thinking of someone else? I think consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
I was referring to the "ESPECIALLY if you want to Greenlight colonies at the same time" bit. Maybe you would describe your issues with others taking such a position with another word than "inconsistent", but what word we use for that doesn't really matter.
This seems like a bad idea.... We absolutely do not want to give the Green light to any member fleet flying into the GBZ at their whim. Why would we do that?
@Briefvoice is right. Please understand that you are telling Nash to fight battles for Enio. You are not merely telling her to lay mines and repair outposts. We simply don't have the ships to cover fighting a running battle for the entire sector, even behind fixed defenses. You can see what happened to the Cardassians when they tried exactly that. Their fixed defenses amounted to "annoyances". We aren't going to be able to do a better job than they did.
[x][NASH] Hold as practicable, but withdraw if the Cardassians push
This seems like a bad idea.... We absolutely do not want to give the Green light to any member fleet flying into the GBZ at their whim. Why would we do that?
If we're green lighting colony building in secured areas as has been proposed, and as I'm voting for, we need to greet light ships to defend/support/use those colonies. I mean, I could tweak it Green Light members with colonies there.
@SynchronizedWritersBlock, @Briefvoice, you're the people with the numbers. How much would it cost to guarantee that the Cardassians have neither the motivation nor the ability to take Enio back? What would the diversion of engineering teams do to our rate of expansion in the GBZ? Most importantly, is that assumption correct that this would prevent the Cardassians from hitting our colonies?
We don't have the resources and no amount of fortifications we can practicably build will hold back a concerted push. If we want to cut Snakepit infrastructure spending in half we could spare an engineering team. I don't recommend it.
Cardassian raiding of sectors past Enio will be restricted by holding Enio. They would likely focus any raiding efforts on Dorsata. However I strongly emphasize that we will lose whole fleets trying to hold Enio regardless of how much engineering we lay down there.
If we're green lighting colony building in secured areas as has been proposed, and as I'm voting for, we need to greet light ships to defend/support/use those colonies. I mean, I could tweak it Green Light members with colonies there.
Members who would be putting colonies there are already Green or Yellow lit to have their fleets there.
Not that I think Green Lighting colonies is a great idea anyway. Green says we think it's perfectly safe. Yellow won't get us off the hook for protecting them, you're right about that, but it encourages due caution. I'd rather give up the "rewards" we might get from a Green Lighting of colonies if it'll save some lives by keeping them to a yellow lit caution.
Actually.....
@OneirosTheWriter can you clarify something? What is the practical difference between Green Lighting Civilian colonies and Yellow Lighting Civilian colonies? How will Starfleet behave differently and how will the member worlds behave differently?
Yellow-Lighting Civilian Colonies means proceed on own recognisance. In effect, this means that the gratitude of the Council is a lot less, but you're also not as hard on the hook if things go wrong.
Green-Lighting makes the Council very happy (and nets pp), but if you fail to protect a colony you'll be shovelling pp into a fire.
