Hmm. Actually, how about an example. If there's a natural disaster on the way that we can't stop, and have a large colony of 10 million people to empty out as fast as possible. What options do we have now, and if we built it in the next five years, what would be a better solution? Excelsiors and similar ships just don't have the capacity. I don't know how much cargo an actual super freighter would hold.
 
Hmm. Actually, how about an example. If there's a natural disaster on the way that we can't stop, and have a large colony of 10 million people to empty out as fast as possible. What options do we have now, and if we built it in the next five years, what would be a better solution? Excelsiors and similar ships just don't have the capacity. I don't know how much cargo an actual super freighter would hold.
If you have to evacuate 10 million people you'd throw the entirety of starfleet at the problem and then some.
 
Lol @OneirosTheWriter I just realized you made it 222 seats so a majority is easy to calculate :V
The Reds are probably still pernicious from our point of view, the Blues might be, the Greens might be depending on how our relations with the Romulans develop in future.

So the breakdown is something like...
31 probably dangerous and likely pro-Cardassian
27 somewhat dangerous and pro-Romulan
19 harmless
62 unsure
83 mostly friendly

Unless the Graduates start systematically breaking anti-Federation, this distribution is very unlikely to turn out badly for us. Though I should note that 'friendly' does not mean 'subservient,' just as 'willing to work with us' is not the same as 'wants to join our fan club.'
I wouldn't completely write off the Blacks (oh jesus, that is an unfortunate name in hindsight). 19 seats in a mixed parliament like this is respectable and could lead to coalition-building. It's also possible with the suddenly more competitive elections they've become broader beyond sovereignty issues -- the BQ in Canada, for example, has a strong left-wing social-democratic bent. They compete with the Yellows, so uh, probably similar circumstances there. So actually, assuming a Yellow/Black/Vangaurd coalition, that gets you to 102 seats. Depending on how Black diversifies their platform, they could become more of a force. Even then, in what's a clearly a pretty multiparty system, they could just hold onto ~20 seats forever and still be competitive.

However, one thing that's important to bear in mind is what unifies the Blues, the Reds, and the Graduates is their dedication to militarism. The Blues and Reds might be dissatisfied by their fall from power, but they're more ideologically aligned with the Graduates than the others. Now, it's possible the Reds are being shut out by the Graduates, due to longstanding ideological problems. In any case, assuming there's an opposing Blue/Red/Graduate militarist faction, that's 93 seats.

Which means the Romulan-friendly faction, the Greens, are the Kingmakers........... probably exactly like the Romulans want it. Given how they've agressively started shipbuilding, I'm hazarding that either they backed the militarists, and we're looking at some sort of Graduate-Blue government; or the Yellow/Black/Vangaurd brought in some blues and/or all the reds and this is them throwing those factions a bone.
 
On evacuations, to be honest... how often do those show up? And when you consider evacuation-result disasters can often be staved off with things like fancy phaser or photon torpedo work, quarantine or medical SCIENCE! or other Explorer-level shenanigans, it's probably better to just find techs that boost existing vessel classes. Perhaps the new Comfort-class might suffice.

Speaking of medical... heh, it'll be interesting to see how the whole vice-admiralty size "medical" organization goes. Medical emergencies *are* pretty common among events... if there can be a hospital ship reliably in the sector (at least able to show up in time with an Explorer or even a Cruiser acting to triage, diagnose and otherwise keep everyone alive for the trip time. If there's enough, then the hospital ships could be patrolling around various sectors, stopping in at colonies, preventing medical emergencies, picking up local medical data (what diseases have shown up, any mutations, new treatments, etc) and dropping off the latest in the same from everywhere else.
 
Eh, during the Biophage, there were a number of evacuations required, just from locations in the thousands, instead of millions. But, quite right. If we don't need it, haven't needed it, why worry?
 
See, you're all missing the other use of rescue ships. They can be used to rescue citizens from the oppression of enemy empires! You don't even have to deal with brainwashed resistance because you're transporting them directly into cryosleep pods; one moment they're watching Fascist Lizard's Good News Daily and the next thing they know they're in a Federation deprogramming and democracy education facility surrounded by people that will help them learn what freedom is and how to participate in a government that loves all of its people. Just swoop in and rescue thousands or tens of thousands of people at a time!
 
During the biophage crisis we learned that colony ships make for excellent evacuation ships as well. And there aren't any parts on the design sheet that would be especially useful for an evacuation ship either (in particular there are no transporter or biostasis parts, nor passanger compartments), so there is no reason to think designing a better evacuation ship than that is even something we can do.
 
For our Aux Commands, what I want to do is to start a modernizing program of Rennie variants for all of them. Rennie Engineers, Colony ships, Survey ships, etc, and at least 4 each (One for each theater command) of Rennie Military Supply and Transport ships, for use when supplies and peacekeepers need to go into dangerous space.
 
On The Republic Incident.



In hard vacuum a man steps lightly through twisted metalwork. There is a quiet solemnity in this place, where the light of distant stars is the pale backdrop to his reverie. The organic floes of cooled, once molten metals makes a sort of artificial garden. Vast voids are marked in the framework around him like a cavern system, promising mysteries for any spelunker daring enough to try them. Well, Pegat Reynar has already traversed them, and learned much. But after six hours of non-stop inspection, he is ready to start collating what he has found and piece together the bigger picture.

Around a great breach in the outer skin, he lays back on the cold metal, feeling its bite through his thin pressure suit, and starts up his music. And then he is lost in thought, turning an image of the starship around in his mind. An Indorian man of peculiar talents, Pegat is famous on his homeworld, but he also has a rising reputation within Starfleet Tactical's Damage Review Office. A starship whisperer, of sorts. Although perhaps a starship medium is closer to the point. There is arguably no one better in Starfleet at the forensics of battle damage.

The music flows through him, as do the echoes of plasma plumes, the wailing of crumpling bulkheads. Time wheels through his mind's eye, turning back the clock on well over a hundred lives. What happened to the Republic? What befell her and her crew? He talks to the ghosts who now live here, the soul of the ship that was. He owes the Republic that much. He has always had a soft spot for her.

There is a popular Indorian game about Starfleet starships and Republic is his favourite.
Republic:

"Thank you..."


Enterprise, her eyes darker than a Betazoid's, but smiling all the same:

"I love Indorians."

"ka'Sharren to Agile."

"Captain Stol here, Rear Admiral."

"Get the Appleseed out here. And beam me up. I need to talk with you about a job."
It looks as though the Cardassians have managed to set limpet mines. Exactly how they did it is going to be an interesting question.

You're thinking Lecarre. Cardassians are more reptilian.

Anyway, sounds like the Republic was attacked by some kind of cloaked or otherwise undetectable minelayer unit.
The charges were too precisely placed. Someone put them specifically where they needed to be to cripple the ship, without doing anywhere near enough damage to physically blow the ship to pieces or wreck it like the Courageous got wrecked when it hit that Orion mine.

It sounds more like they somehow beamed commandos to the ship's surface and planted demolition charges without being detected.

TFW you've reached the stage in your career where you're assigning daring missions rather than carrying them out.
I'd lay pretty good odds on Nash coming along for this, though far from certain ones.

It's been noted that SF ships can generate fields that prevent ship-scale mind powers. At least one EC ship has. I suspect that it's not something our ships want to do constantly, though.
Sombre Boiys, Tartresis Shipmaster, grimly:

"Shipboard mind shields are a very good thing to have. Very very good."



OTHER THINGS

In essence, think of this quote from World War 2. "A Tiger can easily shoot up 10 Sherman panzers, but the Americans always have an 11th ready to go." We need to not produce only superships.
It's actually more extreme than this quote indicates. See, that leaves the impression that to stop one Tiger, ten Sherman tanks have to die. That's not even how it works in a fleet battle. If you bring ENOUGH effective cruisers that are durable enough that they're unlikely to be one-shotted by critical hits, it's entirely possible to beat a fleet of battleships to death without losing a single ship. If the Cardies threw eight or en stock Jalduns at, say, two or three of our explorers, including Ambassadors, they'd probably win without even taking hull damage.

[EDIT: To be clear, yes, I know you know this]

...I feel sorry for the Lecarre who learned this.

"Wait, when you say 'liquidate,' you don't literally mean turned into a liquid, do you?"

o_O

For brought back there is Shey who was head of Intel before becoming chief of staff for two heads of Starfleet. He was not kept by Sulu and is an Andorian so not a human there.
I think he retired; seemed to get along well enough with Sulu when they were co-workers. He'd spent a LONG time in office, and he may be very tired. However, it does seem to be a option for us to bring back retired vice-admirals if they're interested, with Ablett being a good example. On the other hand, Shey ch'Tharvasse may not be interested; it's conceivable that N'Gir would get a "if nominated I will not run, if chosen I will not serve" from him.

Given cannon examples, a ship that's all transporters and an absolute fuckton of buffers could accomplish that fairly easily. Just store everyone in the buffers and you can evacuate as fast as the transporters will cycle.
Transporter buffers can be pretty temperamental; I wouldn't want to rely on just a buffer system to keep everyone alive.

Once you cross out the multiple mass transporters as not available, you're left with a bunch of pods on a fast, tough ship. Obvious question- isn't what you really want a large stockpile of portable cryopods that can quickly be loaded into, say, the cargo bays of an Excelsior? It just seems to me that rather than a new ship design, you could accomplish the same thing with a more mobile cryopod design and our existing ships.
Excelsiors devote a lot of room to weapons and other systems that, on a dedicated evacuation ship, would be much more efficiently dedicated to more cargo space for cryopods. As in, that could make the difference between being able to evacuate tens of thousands of people and being able to evacuate hundreds of thousands of people.

Wait is Sulu really is going?
We have no indication of this in-game, it was just speculative discussion started by @Briefvoice . Not even in the context of recent events, just "so who do you think will replace Sulu when he leaves office?" We had a pretty good idea Sulu was going to replace Sousa, though the time in rank requirement forcing Sousa in instead of Sulu as Kahurangi's replacement kind of blindsided us. So what happens next, is the question...

Hmm. Actually, how about an example. If there's a natural disaster on the way that we can't stop, and have a large colony of 10 million people to empty out as fast as possible. What options do we have now, and if we built it in the next five years, what would be a better solution? Excelsiors and similar ships just don't have the capacity. I don't know how much cargo an actual super freighter would hold.
If you have to evacuate 10 million people you'd throw the entirety of starfleet at the problem and then some.
And it still wouldn't be enough, not in any reasonable amount of time. Putting even a few thousand people on a frigate is borderline impossible, and despite an Excelsior's much larger size I doubt the class can accomodate more than, say, ten thousand refugees. Remember, the normal crew size is only eight hundred; exactly how much life support space do you think they have? And how many parts of the ship do you think it's safe to set up bunk beds in? Where will all those refugees go to the bathroom? Where are the food preparation spaces? Even if we had replicators to feed them, replicators drain a lot of power and would drain more if they were being used at fifteen or twenty times the rate the ship's complement would normally require.

The only vaguely realistic way to physically move a million people quickly using spaceships the size of the ones we have is to freeze them in cryopods and stack them up in the holds like cordwood. Even that, you'd probably need multiple trips on multi-megaton ships, because the odds are that the mass of "person plus cryopod" plus the generator and maintenance equipment to keep them alive is going to mass more than a ton per person. And you can only have so many thousands of tons of cryopods and support equipment on a ship.
 
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The charges were too precisely placed. Someone put them specifically where they needed to be to cripple the ship, without doing anywhere near enough damage to physically blow the ship to pieces or wreck it like the Courageous got wrecked when it hit that Orion mine.

It sounds more like they somehow beamed commandos to the ship's surface and planted demolition charges without being detected.

A ship that can a) sneak up to within transporter range of us, b) beam personnel or drones onto its hull undetected, and then c) leave an explosive device there without IT being detected either is exactly what I would call an "undetectable minelayer unit."
 
Only if you're in a culture where that'd be taken as a pejorative.
OTOH, DS9 discussed a couple of times how things should often be filtered through the point of view of the beholder (both IC and OOC). For instance, Sisko's reluctance to visit the Vic holodeck program and Kasidy convincing him to go along with it; Also, Avery Brooks insisting that Sisko make clear to Kasidy that he would return at some point.
Article:
"We cannot ignore the truth about the past."
"Going to Vic's won't make us forget who we are or where we came from. It reminds us that we are no longer bound by any limitations. Except the ones we impose on ourselves."
- Sisko and Kasidy, on historical accuracy

Article:
Indeed, the final scene between Sisko and Kasidy was shot ... with Sisko telling Kasidy he would never be back. However,... Avery Brooks called Ira Behr and told him he wasn't happy with the scene. He felt that having a black man leave his pregnant black wife to raise their child alone carried certain negative connotations that he wasn't comfortable with. As Terry J. Erdmann puts it in the Companion; "In the 24th century, the situation conveyed only sorrow. However, in the 21st century, there was a secondary social issue that had particular resonance." As such, the scene was rewritten and reshot so as to clarify that Sisko will return some day.
 
So the next major vote is going to be the Intelligence Steering Committee. We get:

2 Cardassian Reports, 25% chance of a third
1 Romulan Report
25% Chance of a Klingon Report due to listening posts
1 Harmony of Horizon Report
6 General Reports

SWB maintains a log of our fast intelligence reports here.

Based on that, I'm thinking:

Cardassian: Tactics Report, Stats for Refit Jaldun-2, if third report then Stats for Refit Kaldar-2

Romulan: Shipbuilding Report (Per SWB, 4 years since we have gotten one of these.)

Klingon Report (if we get lucky): Ship Analysis Report: (Tar'Chak Battleship)

Harmony Report: Fleet Strength Report

6 General Reports
Konen Fleet Strength Report (We can justify knowing this through intelligence passed along by the Ashidi.)
GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to (Been a Couple of Years)
Status of Klingon-Romulan War (Getting that yearly update.)
Romulan Diplomatic Posture (It's been 9 years since we asked about this per SWB's post)

Not so sure about the other two. Options include:
Konen Diplomatic Posture
Write-In:Future path of Hishmeri Septs
Harmony of Horizon Diplomatic Posture (We tried and failed last time; maybe we should keep trying?)
Cardassian Diplomatic Posture
Konen Tactics Report (2% combat bonus vs this fleet for 12 months)
Write-In: Potential obstacles to Honiani Federation Membership
GBZ: Cardassian fleet strength in the GBZ

Any of those sound appealing?
 
So the next major vote is going to be the Intelligence Steering Committee. We get:

2 Cardassian Reports, 25% chance of a third
1 Romulan Report
25% Chance of a Klingon Report due to listening posts
1 Harmony of Horizon Report
6 General Reports

SWB maintains a log of our fast intelligence reports here.

Based on that, I'm thinking:

Cardassian: Tactics Report, Stats for Refit Jaldun-2, if third report then Stats for Refit Kaldar-2

Romulan: Shipbuilding Report (Per SWB, 4 years since we have gotten one of these.)

Klingon Report (if we get lucky): Ship Analysis Report: (Tar'Chak Battleship)

Harmony Report: Fleet Strength Report

6 General Reports
Konen Fleet Strength Report (We can justify knowing this through intelligence passed along by the Ashidi.)
GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to (Been a Couple of Years)
Status of Klingon-Romulan War (Getting that yearly update.)
Romulan Diplomatic Posture (It's been 9 years since we asked about this per SWB's post)

Not so sure about the other two. Options include:
Konen Diplomatic Posture
Write-In:Future path of Hishmeri Septs
Harmony of Horizon Diplomatic Posture (We tried and failed last time; maybe we should keep trying?)
Cardassian Diplomatic Posture
Konen Tactics Report (2% combat bonus vs this fleet for 12 months)
Write-In: Potential obstacles to Honiani Federation Membership
GBZ: Cardassian fleet strength in the GBZ

Any of those sound appealing?

Konen Tactics Report is a must. We did it for the Sydraxians when they were up to bat in the GBZ, now its the Konen.
 
Harmony of Horizon Diplomatic Posture (We tried and failed last time; maybe we should keep trying?)

We may also have gotten to know them well enough to do a Fleet Strength report. Not that I expect to go to war with them soon, but if we did go to war with them I suspect that we'd only know about it when their battlefleet dropped out of warp in the HBZ and their embassy unveiled the secret Ancient portal in the basement to deploy ground troops across Earth. So having an idea of how strong they are would be nice.
 
We may also have gotten to know them well enough to do a Fleet Strength report. Not that I expect to go to war with them soon, but if we did go to war with them I suspect that we'd only know about it when their battlefleet dropped out of warp in the HBZ and their embassy unveiled the secret Ancient portal in the basement to deploy ground troops across Earth. So having an idea of how strong they are would be nice.

I already had fleet strength as the Harmony-specific report. Mostly I want it to give us an idea what their different kinds of ships are.
 
I'd like an Ittick-ka and/or Sotaw Diplomatic Posture report along with the Romulan one. Not because it's particularly useful info, but because I find it interesting that the Sotaw dropped off our radar and want to know what they're up to, and I would like to know if the Ittick-ka had an IC change of heart after our OOC free Diplo roll landed on them.

So flavor reports basically.

For our Aux Commands, what I want to do is to start a modernizing program of Rennie variants for all of them. Rennie Engineers, Colony ships, Survey ships, etc, and at least 4 each (One for each theater command) of Rennie Military Supply and Transport ships, for use when supplies and peacekeepers need to go into dangerous space.

I did propose a military Transport to Oneiros without getting much response. I'm not really sure what mechanical benefits a new model Colony or Survey would get us and thus am unsure we need a new model unless we get a prompt stating that one is needed. There is a place for a new Engineering ship, though. As I've proposed before, an Amby Engineering ship could fit an entire Engineering team in it's hull; we had teams that ranged from 2150kt to 3500kt to 4300kt. An Amby Engineering ship could be 3300kt with Nacelles, and given that there would be less unnecessary duplication of Nacelles and other supplementary systems I suspect that an entire team could be quite easily carried by one vessel. The resulting ship would probably be more expensive in resources than an entire team otherwise would be, but it would be far more efficient to set up a special berth for it in Sol and use the Heavy Industrial Park to to allow us to roll out a new Engineering team every three years instead of trying to use an entire shipyard worth of berths to do so.
 
The engineering teams may have very good reasons for why they need to be spread out on multiple hulls - I am not going to look for a mega-engineering hull until they actually tell us they need something like that.
 
I'd like an Ittick-ka and/or Sotaw Diplomatic Posture report along with the Romulan one. Not because it's particularly useful info, but because I find it interesting that the Sotaw dropped off our radar and want to know what they're up to, and I would like to know if the Ittick-ka had an IC change of heart after our OOC free Diplo roll landed on them.

So flavor reports basically.

I respect a flavor report. If you had to pick one, which one?
 
To echo @Goat ...

There are a lot of situations where it might be actively undesirable to have the whole engineering team in one huge hull. For instance, you might need one ship off extracting local resources for construction (i.e. iron ore, bulk sand or rock or ice or other commonly available materials in nearly every system), while another ship sets up the refinery equipment. You might have one ship continue repair operations while a second ship flies back to base for spare parts.

Bigger isn't always better, and we have no reason to assume that just because all the ships of an engineering team are busy during an engineering team's labors, that all of them are in the same place doing the same thing at the same time.
 
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