Does that mean the HoH have a bunch of Stargates portals to various places in the galaxy? Or did they stop working once disassembled/removed from the planet?
That is sure an excellent question. Note that many of them were to local worlds*, so HoH wouldn't get that much advantage from them and might find more value in breaking down the technology for research purposes. But there might be some that were worth preserving.
*Some portals were stable to a single location and some switched between multiple locations.
Also, I would expect a lot of the portals connections to be buggy, short, or one way due to the facility on the other side being old or broken or trapped with runaway security protocols (like that TNG ep).
I really hope they don't. But then, I'm just surprised they could move the things, considering they tended to be set into place with rather...durable materials.
Honestly given at least some of them run on geothermal power, the Horizon creating an accidental volcano or two this way would give that rebellion a nice kickstart.
I wonder how this is going to affect member worlds. I would be extra happy to see some of the founding four get an income bump. Do we have any idea about the number of member world mining colonies?
Unfortunately, Oneiros didn't post the full details on hubs/sources/etc for the 2317 logistics report (in the Art of Tactical Operations update), and only posted the sm/blk breakdowns for Starfleet and UESPA. But the sm/blk breakdown in the 2317 logistics reports for UESPA match the ones in the 2316 logistics report, and the 2316 logistics report did include the hubs and sources, albeit with pre-retconned spacelift capacity:
I'd say it's pretty likely that these are taking into account Starfleet/Federation mineral and computing technology.
For sake of simplicity, I'm assuming that their colonies only produce one type of resource in the following analysis. That's pretty reasonable, since Starfleet only has 4 colonies out of 32 total (by end of this year) that produce more than one type of resource (Biroth, Beta Corridan, Collie, Kohl II). On the other hand, Lalande is both a major colony and a mining colony, so it could be reasonable it produces more than one type of resource...but let's avoid unnecessary complications.
Take a look at the 20rp total. It would neatly fit if UESPA had 2 typical research colonies at 5 (7) rp/yr each, leaving 6rp do be divvied up into 3 non-research colonies courtesy of the Colony Mainframe tech that provides 2rp per non-RP-producing colony. Now if they didn't get any tech bonuses, they could instead of 4 5rp/yr colonies or 2 10rp/yr super-colonies, or something in between, but I find that all less likely.
Supposing that they do have 2 research colonies, the 3 non-research colonies are likely 2 BR mining colonies and 1 SR mining colony. It's possible that they have two 30br/yr colonies and one 20sr/yr colony and no need for tech bonuses. However, given the overall distribution of mining colonies that Starfleet has, I find it more likely that that they have two 25 (30) br/yr and 10 (20) sr/yr colonies.
So yeah, I do think our member fleets are accounting for the mineral and computing technology that we research and thus are supposed to be Federation-wide.
This does mean I expect a significant boost in resource incomes across members that are up to Federation standards
Refits is the most likely reason, my spreadsheets does not count a ship under refit as contributing towards their stats. I did that with ships under refit and repair as the sheet is supposed to be able to say this is what the federation has ready to go right now, and a ship under repair or refit can't be used. Also I took out the ships Oneiros indicated were being retired so that could make a difference as well. I can see that is a difference with the Apiata as the old stingers are being scrapped but were not off the screenshot posted by Oneiros while I have gone ahead and removed them from the sheet.
1) It would be helpful if you can provide totals that includes all ships under refit or repair so that we have a more stable idea of general fleet totals. Basically something geared for shipbuild planning or other long-term planning rather than fleet deployments.
2) It would also be helpful if you could list totals for ship classes that are used by more than one member (including Starfleet). IIRC that's all Starfleet ship classes, the Patroller-A, and now the Egillah. It's a fairly common question in the thread on how many Renaissances or Excelsior(-A)s there are in the whole Federation.
3) I noticed a little error: You have 4 Renaissances under construction when we actually have 5 (in addition to the 5 already built ones).
You mean trade them to the member fleets for resources/favors. Connie-Bs are still about as good at Constellation-As for event response and superior at combat. Heck, we'll likely be keeping them at least for another decade at the rate our combat cap keeps increasing, and I'd sooner retire a Constellation-A than a Constitution-B if we're desperate for crew.
In any case, all these upcoming increases in income warrant more expansion of shipbuild capacity.
1) It would be helpful if you can provide totals that includes all ships under refit or repair so that we have a more stable idea of general fleet totals. Basically something geared for shipbuild planning or other long-term planning rather than fleet deployments.
2) It would also be helpful if you could list totals for ship classes that are used by more than one member (including Starfleet). IIRC that's all Starfleet ship classes, the Patroller-A, and now the Egillah. It's a fairly common question in the thread on how many Renaissances or Excelsior(-A)s there are in the whole Federation.
3) I noticed a little error: You have 4 Renaissances under construction when we actually have 5 (in addition to the 5 already built ones).
On point 3 the issue was I had not made the changes for the winning shipyards ops vote, which I have fixed now. On point 1, do you want to have the stats pre-refit or post refit? On point 2 I will be adding that shortly for Starfleet+Members.
On point 3 the issue was I had not made the changes for the winning shipyards ops vote, which I have fixed now. On point 1, do you want to have the stats pre-refit or post refit? On point 2 I will be adding that shortly for Starfleet+Members.
By the way, @Briefvoice , I know sometimes debates can feel like hostile exchanges of 'trading slams,' but I do want to salute in the direction of Tauni Tale. I'd have some humorous Leslie remarks, but Iconian ruins and galactic-range portals are one of the few things Leslie never saw...
I was going to bring up the Star Trek: Gateways novel series, specifically One Small Step, where Kirk and crew discover a functional Iconian gateway however that took place immediately after That Which Survives which is episode 14 of season 3 while Leslie's last appearance was Is There in Truth No Beauty? which is episode 7 of season 3. So even if we assumed that series was canon to TBG, it's a Star Trek novel so it's almost certainly not, Leslie left before it's events.
I added additional rows so that we have totals without refit and repair and totals with refit and repair. Construction has not been added to either stats.
Pre-refit and repair is in now. The second thing you wanted, pulling active, construction, refit and repair for common ship classes is on a longer hold. Google sheets does not take 3d references and I don't have the scripting knowledge to create a script. In addition my searches for scripts that I can repurpose are only getting me part of what I need (so far have just found the portion to move to the next sheet for summing, have to figure out how to do a sumif on each sheet though). I will take a crack at it again tomorrow and see if I can't find a script tutorial.
I need to find a script to do it as there are too many sheets to manual add them, and with the right scripts adding new races to member and affiliate will not require any changes on the script. So I think it can be done I just need to figure out the last piece.
The second thing you wanted, pulling active, construction, refit and repair for common ship classes is on a longer hold. Google sheets does not take 3d references and I don't have the scripting knowledge to create a script. In addition my searches for scripts that I can repurpose are only getting me part of what I need (so far have just found the portion to move to the next sheet for summing, have to figure out how to do a sumif on each sheet though). I will take a crack at it again tomorrow and see if I can't find a script tutorial.
I need to find a script to do it as there are too many sheets to manual add them, and with the right scripts adding new races to member and affiliate will not require any changes on the script. So I think it can be done I just need to figure out the last piece.
Oh, I think you're overthinking this - this doesn't require a script. In the new Common Federation Ships sheet, instead of having a table section for "Escorts" (matching all Type="Escort") or other such types, you'd have a table section for "Renaissance" (matching all Class="Renaissance*") and other common ship classes. Just like you'd manually add the "Escort" table, you'd also manually add each common ship class table.
Out of interest, if resources were not an issue, how many years/ships until we need to start harvesting crew from existing fleet to staff the Rennies? (assuming same rate of academy expansion)
Looking at the comparisons the Rennie is 11% more stat/crew efficient (2.36 stat points per crew member) then the Connie-B, but less then the other candidates (Constellation-A/Centaur-A/Miranda-A)
Oh, I think you're overthinking this - this doesn't require a script. In the new Common Federation Ships sheet, instead of having a table section for "Escorts" (matching all Type="Escort") or other such types, you'd have a table section for "Renaissance" (matching all Class="Renaissance*") and other common ship classes. Just like you'd manually add the "Escort" table, you'd also manually add each common ship class table.
I was trying to avoid adding it onto the existing member and affiliate fleet pages, though I may jut have to do that in the end to make it easier. Would have worked if google let you do 3d references like in excel.
Oh, I think you're overthinking this - this doesn't require a script. In the new Common Federation Ships sheet, instead of having a table section for "Escorts" (matching all Type="Escort") or other such types, you'd have a table section for "Renaissance" (matching all Class="Renaissance*") and other common ship classes. Just like you'd manually add the "Escort" table, you'd also manually add each common ship class table.
When I was searching last night I was having a hard time finding one that did what I wanted, so put in additional rows on the Member and Affiliate pages and then just totaling them up on the common ship page.
Here with interesting numbers:
We have 38 Miranda-A, of those Starfleet has 16
There are 26 Centaur-A, Starfleet has 8
There are 8 Constellations that have not started refit of which Starfleet has 3, however that number should change we have 2 entering refit this year and several members just finished refits so have open yards to refit their remaining Constellations.
Constellation-A 9 so far, 2 of which are ours. With refit and construction we will end up with 23.
There are 17 Renaissance, of which we have 5 with 5 under construction. Once again several members just finished a wave so we could see some more hitting member berths in shipyard results for Q1.
For Excelsiors there are 13 base, 7 A refit active with only 4 in service by members. We have 2 under refit and 4 under construction with no member construction.
Member and affiliate construction numbers will be better seen once the Shipyard Ops results is posted as that will have the MWCO for ships commencing.
Out of interest, if resources were not an issue, how many years/ships until we need to start harvesting crew from existing fleet to staff the Rennies? (assuming same rate of academy expansion)
Looking at the comparisons the Rennie is 11% more stat/crew efficient (2.36 stat points per crew member) then the Connie-B, but less then the other candidates (Constellation-A/Centaur-A/Miranda-A)
I was trying to avoid adding it onto the existing member and affiliate fleet pages, though I may jut have to do that in the end to make it easier. Would have worked if google let you do 3d references like in excel.
Ah I see what you're saying. I'd normally just put all the ship quantities in a large "database table" that all the other sheets query out of. However you've structured your inputable data to be on each member's sheet, which is usability trade-off.
I'd very much recommend against using app script functions in formulas unless it's a very last resort. My experience with them is ... not great. Be prepared for inexplicably permanent "loading..." cells, and the ease of which you can run up against formula call volume limits, which are only partially addressed by making sure your functions can be used in array formulas to minimize function calls. It's a fkn mess.
Minor formula suggestions:
1) You can specify unbounded columns rather than an arbitrary large column - e.g. "<sheet>!$B$14:$14" rather than "<sheet>!$B$14:O$14"
2) You don't need multiple sums for the Repair/Refit cells - you can instead sum[if] "<sheet>!$B$12:$13"
Out of interest, if resources were not an issue, how many years/ships until we need to start harvesting crew from existing fleet to staff the Rennies? (assuming same rate of academy expansion)
There's a very high bar to reach to mothball/scrap existing ships in order to crew new ships, versus just building a more crew-efficient although less powerful ship.
Right now, that other crew-efficient ship is the Centaur-A. It used to be a mediocre option which our recent SR crunch, but now that that's going away, Centaur-As are now very viable as the fallback build option if we can't afford to crew a Renaissance.
In general, we should only consider mothballing/scrapping ships if they're starting to become liabilities, we're hitting the combat cap, or someone has carefully analyzed that a specific "mothball/scrap ship + new ship" is the most cost-effective option out of all the myriad alternatives.
Legate,
Recently our signal intelligence obtained an interesting information about navy of one of the Federation affiliate. Or, more precisely, about its non-existance:
The Yan-Ros don't seem to operate a navy at all. I don't really see what they could possibly do with it. They have no space-borne naval tradition at all. Like, they'd have 0/0/0 trained crew, and no academy to train the crew with. And that's just the very first problem.
I was asked to look into it and after thoughtful investigation I can confirm; the Yan-Ros really don't have a navy. At all.
They don't have warships and don't plan to build them.
That's very confusing, I know. Even the most decadent societies of the Federation, plagued with ideas of so-called 'pacifism', have at least something resembling a warfleet. But not the Yan-Ros.
I can reliably claim that they don't have a warfleet because they don't need one.
You, of course, heard about the Yan-Ros Rangers?
Crazy people, clad in crazy clothes, brandishing crazy weapon, fighting crazy threats?
They are not just superb infantry or marines. They can substitute for warships too.
Here is a fragment of video I received from my contact on Vail:
What you see here is a Rangers Fast Response Station sending a group of Ranger trainees in the nearby forest for training.
I was assured that on full power these Stations are capable to send Rangers over hundreds of miles and even on orbit.
Now imagine that against our invading fleet Vail will send hundreds of Rangers.
Even if our brave crews will not succumb to madness from sheer insanity of situation, they still will be forced to fight with hundreds extremely small, but extremely deadly enemies.
Here is my take on Rangers capabilities in space:
The Yan-Ros Ranger Team ???-Now [1.7 m, 0.00023k t]
C4 S2 H1 L3 P3 D3
Cost[0.000004br, 0.000004sr, 4 years], Crew [O-0.02, E-0.04, T-0.02]
As you can see, average team of Rangers is as dangerous as our Takaaki, but demands much less resources, both mineral and sentient, to produce. You can think I overestimate their capabilities, but I'm afraid it's actually an underestimation.
We know for sure that one Ranger team is enough to kill crystalmacrocosmozoa. And according to my numbers, they have more than 400 of them!
Thankfully, the Yan-Ros Rangers are not warp-capable (as far as I know. They could keep it a secret) and Vail rarely send more than one team to other planets.
Still, that means that Vail is the most defended planet in the Federation sphere of influence. Any war plan that involved actions around it should be reconsidered.
Ah I see what you're saying. I'd normally just put all the ship quantities in a large "database table" that all the other sheets query out of. However you've structured your inputable data to be on each member's sheet, which is usability trade-off.
I'd very much recommend against using app script functions in formulas unless it's a very last resort. My experience with them is ... not great. Be prepared for inexplicably permanent "loading..." cells, and the ease of which you can run up against formula call volume limits, which are only partially addressed by making sure your functions can be used in array formulas to minimize function calls. It's a fkn mess.
Great!
Minor formula suggestions:
1) You can specify unbounded columns rather than an arbitrary large column - e.g. "<sheet>!$B$14:$14" rather than "<sheet>!$B$14:O$14"
2) You don't need multiple sums for the Repair/Refit cells - you can instead sum[if] "<sheet>!$B$12:$13"
I tried the extended range for Repair and Refit sumif and it did not work and I did not want to fight with google sheets over it. I think originally for point 1 I was unsure if I was going to add some sort of summation on the sheet in which case I did not want to have that included in any lookup, after I dropped that idea I never went back and fixed the formulas.
I tried the extended range for Repair and Refit sumif and it did not work and I did not want to fight with google sheets over it. I think originally for point 1 I was unsure if I was going to add some sort of summation on the sheet in which case I did not want to have that included in any lookup, after I dropped that idea I never went back and fixed the formulas.
Oops, I spoke too soon. Yeah SUMIFs wouldn't work if the condition range and sum range have different dimensions.
I meant something like "ArrayFormula(SUM((Andor!$B$2:$2=$A78)*Andor!$B$12:$13))"
or to avoid the need for ArrayFormula, "SUMPRODUCT((Andor!$B$2:$2=$A78)*Andor!$B$12:$13)" [no multiplication going on here with the single argument; just taking advantage of SUMPRODUCT coercing formula to be an array formula]
Thankfully, the Yan-Ros Rangers are not warp-capable (as far as I know. They could keep it a secret) and Vail rarely send more than one team to other planets.
The Yan-Ros have nearly 40 warp-capable auxiliary ships, a dozen of which are the "civilian ships" that are the primary means which which to transport the Ranger teams around.
And have you ever wondered why their partners in crime, the Honiani, have 34 CIVILIAN SHIPS? Hmmm??
(Okay, it's because the Obar merged with them, contributing the rough equivalent of Caldonia's merchant marine, but let's ignore that little inconvenient detail )
The Yan-Ros have nearly 40 warp-capable auxiliary ships, a dozen of which are the "civilian ships" that are the primary means which which to transport the Ranger teams around.
And have you ever wondered why their partners in crime, the Honiani, have 34 CIVILIAN SHIPS? Hmmm??
There's a very high bar to reach to mothball/scrap existing ships in order to crew new ships, versus just building a more crew-efficient although less powerful ship.
Right now, that other crew-efficient ship is the Centaur-A. It used to be a mediocre option which our recent SR crunch, but now that that's going away, Centaur-As are now very viable as the fallback build option if we can't afford to crew a Renaissance.
In general, we should only consider mothballing/scrapping ships if they're starting to become liabilities, we're hitting the combat cap, or someone has carefully analyzed that a specific "mothball/scrap ship + new ship" is the most cost-effective option out of all the myriad alternatives.
I would have thought new Centaur-A and Miranda-A were off the table until the B refits makes them viable again.
I was just looking for a ballpark figure of how long we can spam rennie's before we hit peak-crew. from that figure we would know if we should be pushing for the better crew efficiency (3+) in upcoming designs (Science frigate, Frigate, Heavy Cruiser) and refits (Excelsior-B, Ambassador-A, Centaur-B, Miranda-B)
I would have thought new Centaur-A and Miranda-A were off the table until the B refits makes them viable again.
I was just looking for a ballpark figure of how long we can spam rennie's before we hit peak-crew. from that figure we would know if we should be pushing for the better crew efficiency (3+) in upcoming designs (Science frigate, Frigate, Heavy Cruiser) and refits (Excelsior-B, Ambassador-A, Centaur-B, Miranda-B)
Centaur-A are very viable as escorts. Of note half of our current ones have reached blooded and at least 3 of those 4 were solely from events. They really help flesh out or event response for in sector events and also are our best ship for the skirmish and scout phase in combat currently. We had an SR crunch before which is why we shifted to Miranda-A to fill our need for numbers.
Also for events some events can have multiple responders (generally 2 if multiple are allowed) who work together to pass it. However we know that a max of 1 Explorer class can respond to events, it is not know if Cruisers have the same cap. What that does mean though is we want a second ship available to assist response which is were the Centaur-A comes in as a very crew efficient ship. They come on line quicker than a Renaissance and provide a lot of crew savings as we gear up for the big Ambassador pushes.
@OneirosTheWriter it hasn't come up yet but once we start producing Ambassadors is it possible to have crew transfer from EC Excelsior to the Ambassador and then turn the Excelsior over to regular Starfleet crew?
it hasn't come up yet but once we start producing Ambassadors is it possible to have crew transfer from EC Excelsior to the Ambassador and then turn the Excelsior over to regular Starfleet crew?
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