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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Void Stalker said:
Try to remember this, I think we should try to see if we can get an intel report giving us an idea on what deployment requirements and how many warships are being used for cargo shipping
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I am so sorry I ever wrote that in an omake.
nocarename said:
"But no one wants to do it regularly," countered Terev, "It's an opportunity cost. Every ship you have moving freight that could do something else? It is a ship not looking for new mining and colony sites, performing research or fixing problems that continue to pop up. Or even just running customs operations. I hate to think what the situation and search for the Kadak-Tor did to disrupt shipments."
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Neither Terev, nor I, had a grasp of the logistics system at that time. I mostly still don't. (Meanwhile Terev has been taking night classes.) Please don't trust that the Cardassians have actually been doing this.
 
nocarename said:
Neither Terev, nor I, had a grasp of the logistics system at that time. I mostly still don't. (Meanwhile Terev has been taking night classes.) Please don't trust that the Cardassians have actually been doing this.
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I thought it was an early Cardassian post from the QM that indicated they were using Jalduns to supplement food shipments? Don't have time to search all the postsl now, but maybe on the weekend ...
 
nocarename said:
I am so sorry I ever wrote that in an omake.

Neither Terev, nor I, had a grasp of the logistics system at that time. I mostly still don't. (Meanwhile Terev has been taking night classes.) Please don't trust that the Cardassians have actually been doing this.
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Aha! So that's where the notion came from. I recall someone (I think UberJJK) trying to find the source.

You know, it's not unreasonable for Jalduns to be capable if shipping cargo around. We have examples of dual purpose military+auxiliary ships like the Apiata Forager, and the Jaldun for a near-current era design has a decent amount of extra tonnage that it could double as a cargo ship (cargo ships themselves have <400kt tonnage, although that probably excludes the containers containing the cargo), or at least a poor man's version of it. Maybe something like 4s 1b instead of the cargo ship 8s 2b.
 
lbmaian said:
Aha! So that's where the notion came from. I recall someone (I think UberJJK) trying to find the source.

You know, it's not unreasonable for Jalduns to be capable if shipping cargo around. We have examples of dual purpose military+auxiliary ships like the Apiata Forager, and the Jaldun for a near-current era design has a decent amount of extra tonnage that it could double as a cargo ship (cargo ships themselves have <400kt tonnage, although that probably excludes the containers containing the cargo), or at least a poor man's version of it. Maybe something like 4s 1b instead of the cargo ship 8s 2b.
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It might even land up a rich man's version instead. Weren't we saying a while ago that only military vessels (or quasi-military of SF) had high warp capable engines? It might have been government level ships instead, but I don't believe that was the case. So if the Cardassians are similar, at half cargo, but twice or better a barge's speed, it works out better than even.
 
HearthBorn said:
So if the Cardassians are similar, at half cargo, but twice or better a barge's speed, it works out better than even.
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At about warp 6.3 you're going twice as fast as a warp 5 ship. Doable, but you're also tapping into your more highly skilled spacers to crew this as a fast cargo ship. Getting additional dedicated cargo ships with a sensible, manageable warp 5 cruise out becomes even more necessary.

Also, from what I can tell, Cardassians prefer to have a steady supply of a given ship class. With n-Jalduns , m-Kaldars, and k-Takkais a year, that sort of thing, as opposed to Starfleet's habit of throwing out waves of our newest toy. It's an interesting show of differences in handling the problem of ship building scheduling.
 
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nocarename said:
At about warp 6.3 you're going twice as fast as a warp 5 ship. Doable, but you're also tapping into your more highly skilled spacers to crew this as a fast cargo ship. Getting additional dedicated cargo ships with a sensible, manageable warp 5 cruise out becomes even more necessary.

Also, from what I can tell, Cardassians prefer to have a steady supply of a given ship class. With n-Jalduns , m-Kaldars, and k-Takkais a year, that sort of thing, as opposed to Starfleet's habit of throwing out waves of our newest toy. It's an interesting show of differences in handling the problem of ship building scheduling.
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lucky for us we are planning on building a wave of Various MT berths come the next snakepit.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
Code: 
            Fleet fedForce = battle.SideOne;
            fedForce.FleetName = "Task Force 1";
            fedForce.LogicData = new TechDoctrineFleetLogic(fedForce);

OH GODDAMIT

Edit: Note to self, debuff the Tech-Ship doctrine, that shit is bananas.
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It's well designed for ships that push Science scores to the point where they interfere with combat stats. When applied to ships that have pretty good combat stats (like ConnieBees and Rennies)... overpowered.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
Code: 
            Fleet fedForce = battle.SideOne;
            fedForce.FleetName = "Task Force 1";
            fedForce.LogicData = new TechDoctrineFleetLogic(fedForce);

OH GODDAMIT
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Unless you're coding up a different run script each time, interesting that the first side is assumed to always be the Federation side :p

BTW, can you ensure the name of the battle is included in the GBZ update?

Edit: Note to self, debuff the Tech-Ship doctrine, that shit is bananas.
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Is it? I'm still not sure what "Attack Pattern Sigma"'s "+5% Fleet Weight" even does yet. I believe it increases the fleet firing chances ala the old combat power comparisons, but the logs don't make that clear.
 
Goat said:
You see, there is Federation Deflector bullshit, and then there is Gaeni Deflector Bullshit ... I am assuming that TechDoctrineFleetLogic is for the Gaeni level.
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Gaeni Deflector Bulshit = Federation Deflector Bullshi. Gaeni just start with it instead of using it as last resort.
 
Goat said:
Requirement for the doctrine. It only supposed to be applied to a 'tech' side and also requires high S on all ships. We have the S on our newer designs, but not the required back ground.
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As I recall, the tech-ship needs to have higher S than C in order to use that doctrine (or at least equal). I don't think we have a ship that even meets those criteria aside from the oberth (and the centaur-A, if C = S is good enough). The kepler will, but its not out yet.
 
Leila Hann said:
As I recall, the tech-ship needs to have higher S than C in order to use that doctrine (or at least equal). I don't think we have a ship that even meets those criteria aside from the oberth (and the centaur-A, if C = S is good enough). The kepler will, but its not out yet.
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Also the Constellation-A and the Ambassador. We potentially have a full lineup of tech ships, just also a lot of ships that aren't.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
If it was applied appropriately, it's not that bad. You sacrifice a lot to have science scores as large as combat scores. It just goes weird when it's applied without that.

Like, 5% fleet weight is about as bananas as fleet-wide +1L (that so far we didn't even get because of a bug).
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Unless I'm missing something, Attack Pattern Sigma, the one that gives us +5% fleet weight, doesn't require tech-ships - it just requires the fleet to have more S.

Here's the Tech-Ship Doctrine as of the Arcadian War:
OneirosTheWriter said:
Tech-Ship in Gaeni terminology is any ship where their Science equals or exceeds their Combat.

Technical Doctrine ->
->Way of the Mind
->Way of Reason
->Way of the Stars
-->Into Tomorrow

Way of the Mind
Collaborative Research: +1 to Event Attendees allowed
Cutting Edge: +1 to Response roll for Tech Ships

Way of Reason
Science-Industrial Complex: For Tech-Ships, -1 Qtr Frigate / -2 Qtr Cruiser-Capital Build Time
Attack Pattern Sigma: +5% Fleet Weight when fleet has more S

Way of the Stars
Attack Pattern Phi: Add S to burnthrough chance
Dedication: >Must< work to have more tech-ships than other ships, unless at war or under war warning

Into Tomorrow
Progress to the Future: Cost and time penalty of prototyping reduced by 50%
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lbmaian said:
Unless I'm missing something, Attack Pattern Sigma, the one that gives us +5% fleet weight, doesn't require tech-ships - it just requires the fleet to have more S.
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I see. A 10% bonus, though, might not really make up for having designed a science-heavy fleet over a combat-heavy fleet. +1C fleetwide vs 10% fleetwide is almost always in favor of the C.

If I were to suggest a nerf, though, it would be to look at a specific S margin, like fleet has at least 20% or 30% more S or something like that.
 
Awesome quest. One question... the temporal agents that Admiral Sousa met when she was debriefed on the Zeroth Battle of Alpha Centauri said their department was going to be created two years from then. It's about two years from then. So is this the year that Sulu formally sets up the Department of Temporal Investigations?

Chekov can run it, even!
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I see. A 10% bonus, though, might not really make up for having designed a science-heavy fleet over a combat-heavy fleet. +1C fleetwide vs 10% fleetwide is almost always in favor of the C.

If I were to suggest a nerf, though, it would be to look at a specific S margin, like fleet has at least 20% or 30% more S or something like that.
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I really don't think it needs a nerf, considering the ships it normally applies to.
 
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